Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[Art Vandelay_]

Since beginning of 2019

Hawthorn at York Park 12-7
Everywhere else 29-2-65
Overall 41-2-72

Sucks being a small club, Saints get screwed so hard, lost by 8 at Kardinia Park (where we haven't won since 1999) and 5 at Launceston.

Despite the mediocre season, St Kilda would actually be 5-4 if we got games in Melbourne like Collingwood or Carlton would.

Wait you think you'd have won round 1 had it been in Melbourne? lol.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Looking forward to seeing all of you vultures back here next year when we bounce back into Top 8 premiership contention again.

Will you get win 1000 this decade or the 2030s?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Ratts had no *in idea

Ratts has been shafted twice now. Just to be replaced by a few dinosaurs who should've been left in 2010.

He absolutely can coach. Even got this terrible North group humming last year.

 

[PJays]

Wait you think you'd have won round 1 had it been in Melbourne? lol

Numbers don't lie

Saints haven't won at KP since 1999

Dogs won there last year. Their first win since 2003

Both teams have beaten Geelong plenty of times on the neutral territory of Marvel or MCG.

Geelong's advantage there is worth more than 8 points. I can't give you an exact figure but it's clearly more than 8.

 

[Red Bull]

Where to from here for the Saints

 

[PJays]

Ratts has been shafted twice now. Just to be replaced by a few dinosaurs who should've been left in 2010.

People making comments like this today should revisit the opening weeks of Ratten's equivalent season at St Kilda- 2021

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Numbers don't lie

Saints haven't won at KP since 1999

Dogs won there last year. Their first win since 2003

Both teams have beaten Geelong plenty of times on the neutral territory of Marvel or MCG.

Geelong's advantage there is worth more than 8 points. I can't give you an exact figure but it's clearly more than 8.

You weren't winning round 1 no matter where it was played. You're St Kilda, a perennial struggler, now playing with Ross' handbrake.

And we're.... Not.

 

[PJays]

You weren't winning round 1 no matter where it was played.

What a hot take this is. Dangerfield sealed the game with a 50m goal and a minute left.

You're St Kilda, a perennial struggler, now playing with Ross' handbrake.

And we're.... Not.

Another hot take. The previous time Saints played Geelong it was a pummelling.... in favour of Red, White and Black.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The previous time Saints played Geelong it was a pummelling.... in favour of Red, White and Black.

I remember it well. Tried telling some saints fans on here that beating us in 2023 was no prize and that they were a middle of the road team that if it made finals would go straight out and had a lot of vanilla type players.

Looks pretty accurate right about now.

 

[Freomaniac]

People are wowing and laughing at this.

It's pretty straightforward. Playing at KP is worth more than 8 points to Geelong and playing in Launceston worth more than 5 points to Hawthorn.

The numbers don't lie.

Therefore, all other things being equal, Saints win those games if they're in Melbourne.

Being a small club has disadvantages. You make finals but still get sent to the tough grounds. We'd probably be 5-4 instead of 3-6 if we had a "big club" fixture.

Look its hard to beat the cats in Geelong, no matter how good your side is.

Saints fans would love to play home games at Moorabbin oval, Even if it holds 30-35,000 seats.

Saints did have a home final at the MCG vs GWS but sadly lost.

No chance St Kilda finishes bottom 4.

Unless they get obliterated by injuries. But that's a standard caveat to any sport prediction ever.

Agreed. Saints wont finish bottom. North will take that. Hawks, tigers and Eagles get the other 3 bottom 4 spots.

Only way that the saints get bottom 4 is that they get injuries finish with 6 or 7 wins and 15th or 16th spot.

Saints fans deserve better than Ross and his negative, boring football

Agreed. I would of kept Brett Ratten. Hell, Ken Hinkley would of been a good fit.

Brad Scott would of done something half decent at the saints, he is doing ok at Essendon.

 

[Freomaniac]

The Swans Swarm, they look like they have more players on the ground.

Freo getting a reality check against a Top 4 team who are probably the premiership favourites now.

The Swans just beat GWS, Melbourne and Geelong are stumbling, Carlton still aren't convincing, the Saints are a dark horse.

The hawks ambush, looked like they had more players around the ball.

Saints got a reality check against a bottom 6 side who are likely to stay in the bottom 6.

the hawks just beat the bulldogs last week.

But saying that, you really think the saints are a dark horse?

 

[Freomaniac]

Ratts had no *in idea

well I think Ratten had some Ideas. Saints gave Ratten a 2 year extension mid season, then saints turned to poo and sacked Ratten at the end of the season.

Ratts has been shafted twice now. Just to be replaced by a few dinosaurs who should've been left in 2010.

He absolutely can coach. Even got this terrible North group humming last year.

I agree. Ratten sacking at the saints was a bit harsh.

The Bloke somehow was good enough to help the saints get a finals win in 2020.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Both teams have beaten Geelong plenty of times on the neutral territory of Marvel or MCG.

Marvel is your home ground, so it's not neutral territory. We don't play home games on a carpark in Melbourne with a 50k seating cap.

MCG can be considered a neutral venue. We don't know how you'd fare against us there because you're not big enough to get games there anymore. Last time was in 2011, when we beat you on two occasions.

On a true neutral venue - the Gabba - we beat you in 2020. We've beaten you at your home ground on many occasions in the last decade, and you've not beaten us at ours. Maybe if you were more relevant, you'd be one of our home MCG matches, but your club would have to start performing better.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Saints fans deserve better than Ross and his negative, boring football

See this place late 2022 when a number of them were here telling everyone how great they were going to be again now overrated clown Ross Lyon was back? No I'm not sure they deserve better than Ross. He will leave them in an even worse state this time too and in very quick time.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Looking forward to you saying the same thing next year

Looking forward to him completely denouncing Lyon after he leaves them high and dry and absolutely stuffed. Again.

 

[phantom13]

No chance St Kilda finishes bottom 4.

Unless they get obliterated by injuries. But that's a standard caveat to any sport prediction ever.

I mean we’re 5th bottom right now and just got beaten by the 4th bottom team with probably the best 23 we’ve had all year.

It might not happen but it’s absolutely a chance

 

[maskmcgee]

So a few weeks ago it was the playing 3 games in one fewer day than the Dogs, now it's the runners not being allowed out enough, every game another excuse from Ross right before he says 'I'm not making excuses'

 

[HTPunter]

Since beginning of 2019

Hawthorn at York Park 12-7
Everywhere else 29-2-65
Overall 41-2-72

Sucks being a small club, Saints get screwed so hard, lost by 8 at Kardinia Park (where we haven't won since 1999) and 5 at Launceston.

Despite the mediocre season, St Kilda would actually be 5-4 if we got games in Melbourne like Collingwood or Carlton would.

Playing away games away is not being screwed. lol. Worst ******* excuse I’ve ever heard.

 

[HTPunter]

North have had to play GWS at their western Sydney petting zoo, Gold Coast at their 5-0 Darwin home, and Geelong in Geelong. Plus had to play Brisbane in Adelaide, which is their 2nd home.

4-5 for us if we weren’t screwed by the fixture. Bloody brilliant news, we aren’t winless

 

[VinnieB]

How many teams have

- Won a flag; and

- Played multiple Grand Finals; and

- Played finals most years, including at least 2 of the last 3 seasons

In the last 10 seasons including this one 2015-2024?

There are two:

• Geelong
• Western Bulldogs

Doggies are experienced, have plenty of talent, have been good for a long time, and became the media's biggest story last week. It's not surprising they bounced back. That was my point.

+ Pies.
But unsure what the point is with this restrictive criteria.

St Kilda have been hugely disappointing. When you beat us early in the season, you could see how good the Saints could be, with hugely impressive kids.

Yesterday’s game was one of the worst games of the season, and both teams would have probably lost against any other opponent (except maybe North and Richmond).

Not sure how the Saints have fallen away so quickly. But it isn’t a surprise when looking at previous years.

 

[austinnn]

No more excuses.

We're dog s**t at the moment. Form is down across the whole squad, our seniors are still doing the braindead moves they did during the Ratten and Richo eras, and it's infected the young players.

Our leadership might be the worst in the AFL, the dumbarse players keep voting for the same player to be captain, despite Steele, Sinclair, Ross and Marshall being as dynamic and ferocious as a cardboard box. The coaches can't see or don't care which is a worry.

The list is average and misshapen, the midfield is elite for VFL but severely lacking in the AFL. We can't do what North, Hawks, Eagles and even Richmond are doing as our credit isn't that good and we'd get sent to Tassie quicker than you can say "eddiemacguire", so we have to try to win enough to actually avoid all the great draft picks, none of our current players have enough external value to trade for great draft picks.

Our coach is fine but most of his assistants are there because they are ex players, Enright is the only assistant that earned his position. They might be good, but making Robert Harvey forward coach is a waste.

 

[kickazz]

The problem is Ross is a micromanager who would prefer predictable, controllable B graders over empowering A graders to realise their full potential, occasionally being a bit unpredictable, but getting results.

 

[PJays]

Marvel is your home ground, so it's not neutral territory.

You're correct but only in a trivial, inconsequential sense

I don't consider Marvel to be anyone's home ground in a true, relevant sense. Not in the same way that, say, KP is Geelong's home ground or the Gabba is Brisbane's home ground.

1. Because 5 or 6 teams host games at Marvel, every single AFL team plays there multiple times a year. Historically Geelong played there 4 or 5 times a year. (In recent years it's decreased because Carlton and Essendon have shifted to hosting Geelong at the MCG. St Kilda is now hosting an MCG game every year too, although probably won't ever host Geelong there).

When St Kilda plays in Geelong, it's a once- every-two- years event. When Geelong comes to Marvel, they're playing a venue most of their players have played at 10 or 15 times. And historically that would've been 20 or 25 times.

But more importantly...

2. "Home" advantage is more about crowd than anything else. The covid era demonstrated this empirically. With half of Geelong's fan base living in Melbourne, if St Kilda hosts Geelong at Marvel, there's 20-25K St Kilda fans and 10-15k Geelong fans in attendance. Minimal advantage when both teams have strong support.

This is the same reason say, North, St Kilda or the Dogs don't have a meaningful advantage when hosting Collingwood etc at Marvel.

In my view St Kilda has their first genuine, meaningful "home" game next week- in round 10. We'll have overwhelming crowd support for the first time. Covid era demonstrated that is the key factor in home advantage.

 

[VinnieB]

You're correct but only in a trivial, inconsequential sense

I don't consider Marvel to be anyone's home ground in a true, relevant sense. For two reasons.

1. Because 5 or 6 teams host games at Marvel, every single AFL team plays there multiple times a year. Historically Geelong played there 4 or 5 times a year. (In recent years it's decreased because Carlton and Essendon have shifted to hosting Geelong at the MCG. St Kilda is now hosting an MCG game every year too, although probably won't ever host Geelong there).

When St Kilda plays in Geelong, it's a once- every-two- years event. When Geelong comes to Marvel, they're playing a venue most of their players have played at 10 or 15 times. And historically that would've been 20 or 25 times.

But more importantly...

2. "Home" advantage is more about crowd than anything else. The covid era demonstrated this empirically. With half of Geelong's fan base living in Melbourne, if St Kilda hosts Geelong at Marvel, there's 20-25K St Kilda fans and 10-15k Geelong fans in attendance. Minimal advantage when both teams have strong support.

This is the same reason say, North, St Kilda or the Dogs don't have a meaningful advantage when hosting Collingwood etc at Marvel.

In my view St Kilda has their first genuine, meaningful "home" game next week- in round 10. We'll have overwhelming crowd support for the first time. Covid era demonstrated that is the key factor in home advantage.

That’s no different to the MCG.
You’re making a lot of excuses.

A ‘home’ ground is now based on crowd support?

 

[PJays]

A ‘home’ ground is now based on crowd support?

Home advantage is mostly based on crowd support, yes.