Analysis Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

[Magus]

"The original Hornets franchise was established in 1988 as an expansion team, owned by George Shinn. In 2002, Shinn's franchise relocated to New Orleans and became the New Orleans Hornets. In 2004, the NBA established the Charlotte Bobcats, which was regarded as a new expansion team at the time. In 2013, the New Orleans' franchise announced it would rebrand itself the New Orleans Pelicans, ultimately returning the Hornets name, records, and official history (spanning from 1988 to 2002) to Charlotte. The Bobcats were officially renamed to the Charlotte Hornets for the 2014–15 season."

Now thats confusing

 

[Portology]

I'd say that across the NFL, NBA and MLB there would be a very high percentage of teams that aren't still in their original city.

I find the funniest part is when they keep the nickname, when it has no geographical or historical link to the new city.

There ain't no lakes in LA.

well the "tar pits" implies a franchise with 'stickiness', and it just doesn't have the same ring, does it?

 

[Portology]

U S Steel still has its global headquarters in Pittsburgh it still is a top 5 or top 10 private employer and makes over 3m tonnes of steel in the main mill in Pittsburgh and there are lots of small niche mills. But they have used that old base to become a technology hub. Obama deliberately selected Pittsburgh for the G-20 meeting his first year as president to show how the rust belt can transform to high tech. Trump deliberately targeted Pittsburgh to bring back American manufacturing jobs. A few thousand steel worker employees vs a few hundred thousand steel worker employees doesn't change the town's soul.

how many Patriots left in Boston?

 

[Coobk001]

As a massive Raiders fan I'm stoked with the move. We've been struggling big time in Oakland with poor crowds (we actually use a tarp over an entire deck) and a piss poor stadium and with the move to LV we should see a huge increase in cash flowing through.

Going to be interesting to watch the crowd engagement over the next couple years before the move.

I'm intending personally to be at the first game at the new Raider stadium. Have already arranged it with the wife. Hopefully by then we're also closer to celebrating a super bowl victory.

 

[CharlieKelly]

As a massive Raiders fan I'm stoked with the move. We've been struggling big time in Oakland with poor crowds (we actually use a tarp over an entire deck) and a piss poor stadium and with the move to LV we should see a huge increase in cash flowing through.

Going to be interesting to watch the crowd engagement over the next couple years before the move.

I'm intending personally to be at the first game at the new Raider stadium. Have already arranged it with the wife. Hopefully by then we're also closer to celebrating a super bowl victory.

Can confirm the last stadium I went to with tarps wasn’t a Port game



Oakland Colliseum was by far the shittiest stadium I went to. Baseball and NFL teams groundsharing just doesn’t work anymore.

 

[chiwigi]

As a massive Raiders fan I'm stoked with the move. We've been struggling big time in Oakland with poor crowds (we actually use a tarp over an entire deck) and a piss poor stadium and with the move to LV we should see a huge increase in cash flowing through.

Going to be interesting to watch the crowd engagement over the next couple years before the move.

I'm intending personally to be at the first game at the new Raider stadium. Have already arranged it with the wife. Hopefully by then we're also closer to celebrating a super bowl victory.

Yeah, but if a Raider is not in California, is it a Raider?
If Port relocated to Tassie, I'd be out.

 

[CharlieKelly]

Yeah, but if a Raider is not in California, is it a Raider?
If Port relocated to Tassie, I'd be out.

It’s in Nevada, four hours away from Oakland, it’s like if Port relocated to Port Lincoln

 

[Coobk001]

I'd say that across the NFL, NBA and MLB there would be a very high percentage of teams that aren't still in their original city.

If you go back and look at the history of the MLB in particular it is surprising to see just how unplanned the expansion and nationalisation of the competition was, it is almost similar to the AFL in terms of an eastern dominance of the sport which spread west. The major difference to AFL though is just how many clubs moved location, rather than just new clubs being established.
ie. iconic teams like LA Dodgers from Brooklyn to LA, SF Giants from NewYork to San Fran, Boston to Atlanta Braves, Philadephia to Oakland A's, Washington to Texas Rangers, etc,

Even when you look at NBA there's only a half of the teams that haven't moved location, though only 2 of these are over 50 years old.
(Knicks, Celtics, Chicago, Phoenix, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Portland, San Antonio, Denver, Indiana, Dallas, Miami, Orlando, Minnesota, Toronto, New Orleans.)

Yeah, but if a Raider is not in California, is it a Raider?
If Port relocated to Tassie, I'd be out.

My answer is in the above. As well as, the iconic LA Lakers started in Minneapolis, OKC from Seattle, LA Clippers from Buffalo, etc.

In time people will forget it. Absolutely it takes a locationally detatched fan like me whose already been through the LA to Oakland move to not really care, but still American sports have been doing it for a long time and I think it'll be accepted pretty quickly.

 

[Magus]

It’s in Nevada, four hours away from Oakland, it’s like if Port relocated to Port Lincoln

More like 8 hours.

 

[chiwigi]

It’s in Nevada, four hours away from Oakland, it’s like if Port relocated to Port Lincoln

It's a different state and city.
It's more like Port relocating to Geelong.

 

[Coobk001]

Can confirm the last stadium I went to with tarps wasn’t a Port game

View attachment 458912

Oakland Colliseum was by far the shittiest stadium I went to. Baseball and NFL teams groundsharing just doesn’t work anymore.

Yep here's the NFL tarps.

What I most noticed about the coliseum when I went there was the thin bridge to the train line, and the massive bottle neck that created. It was a terrible venue. I remember when we built our bridge being a strong advocate for keeping it wide as a result.

 

[chiwigi]

Yep here's the NFL tarps.

It's a ridiculously sensible thing to do. The abuse Port have received for doing it still astounds me. Melbourne can have a 15k crowd at the MCG and that's ok. But don't you dare use the empty seats for advertising.

 

[Portology]

It’s in Nevada, four hours away from Oakland, it’s like if Port relocated to Port Lincoln

...except for the little matter of "Ports", which are a bit lacking in the Nevada desert.
Your analogy might *almost* work if we became the Port Augusta Camels, the "ships of the desert"

Nevada doesn't even have camels.

Maybe the poor Oakland fans can launch a ceremonial boat on the Colorado river and name their new mob the Hoover Damns.

 

[CharlieKelly]

It's a ridiculously sensible thing to do. The abuse Port have received for doing it still astounds me. Melbourne can have a 15k crowd at the MCG and that's ok. But don't you dare use the empty seats for advertising.

It's just "ner ner ner, we've got more supporters than you, so therefore we're better than you" mentality, which just completely lacks perspective and is somehow reflective of on-field performance. Nevermind that Port has higher average attendance than Sydney, also a two team city with five times the population, or most Melbourne based teams.

By their logic, if Nickelback and Iron Maiden held a gig in Adelaide on the same night and 5000 more people attended Nickelback, that'd mean they're a better band.

 

[Portology]

It's a ridiculously sensible thing to do. The abuse Port have received for doing it still astounds me. Melbourne can have a 15k crowd at the MCG and that's ok. But don't you dare use the empty seats for advertising.

Yeah the abuse we copped was ridiculous. To be fair to Oakland there IMO it looks more 'natural', more like part of the stadium itself, when tarps are just a huge integrated banner across the top part of a stadium. In the specific case of Oakland in the pic it looks like a bunch of relatively unloved, uncovered seats up there, quite unlike our Football Park situation. And 'high tarps' to broadly label their configuration also has the effect of "evenly" concentrating a crowd closer to the game rather than in "wedges", which is also a bit more of a natural look for media. If anything the instant comparison that springs to mind is with Etihad simply closing the top tier of stands for those blockbuster Norf-Freo games. Tarps would have at least got *something* out of that resource.

 

[chiwigi]

Yeah the abuse we copped was ridiculous. To be fair to Oakland there IMO it looks more 'natural', more like part of the stadium itself, when tarps are just a huge integrated banner across the top part of a stadium. In the specific case of Oakland in the pic it looks like a bunch of relatively unloved, uncovered seats up there, quite unlike our Football Park situation. And 'high tarps' to broadly label their configuration also has the effect of "evenly" concentrating a crowd closer to the game rather than in "wedges", which is also a bit more of a natural look for media. If anything the instant comparison that springs to mind is with Etihad simply closing the top tier of stands for those blockbuster Norf-Freo games. Tarps would have at least got *something* out of that resource.

The wedges were chosen as there were few people sitting in the pockets if I remember correctly. The stadium was so crappy that the obvious closing of the Upper Northern Stand would mean there were very few covered seats left.

 

[Portology]

The wedges were chosen as there were few people sitting in the pockets if I remember correctly. The stadium was so crappy that the obvious closing of the Upper Northern Stand would mean there were very few covered seats left.

The “obvious” was closing the whole place and moving to the city


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[chiwigi]

As a massive Raiders fan I'm stoked with the move. We've been struggling big time in Oakland with poor crowds (we actually use a tarp over an entire deck) and a piss poor stadium and with the move to LV we should see a huge increase in cash flowing through.

Going to be interesting to watch the crowd engagement over the next couple years before the move.

I'm intending personally to be at the first game at the new Raider stadium. Have already arranged it with the wife. Hopefully by then we're also closer to celebrating a super bowl victory.

The Raiders are also pretty unique. Like Manchester United they have fans from all over and not necessarily from their named city, the move will be great for the franchise overall.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The Raiders are also pretty unique. Like Manchester United they have fans from all over and not necessarily from their named city, the move will be great for the franchise overall.

Steeler Nation is bigger than the spread of Oakland fans across USA IMO. Its got to do with so many people from Pittsburgh having to leave because of the steel mills turning into rust bucket city and greater Pittsburgh being about the same population size as it was 1970, whereas the USA population has increased 60%+ since 1970.

I'd say Raiders and the Cowboys and you can probably throw the Packers in there as having the biggest % of their fan base come from people who have never lived in the teams home city, or close by.

 

[chiwigi]

Steeler Nation is bigger than the spread of Oakland fans across USA IMO. Its got to do with so many people from Pittsburgh having to leave because of the steel mills turning into rust bucket city and greater Pittsburgh being about the same population size as it was 1970, whereas the USA population has increased 60%+ since 1970.

I'd say Raiders and the Cowboys and you can probably throw the Packers in there as having the biggest % of their fan base come from people who have never lived in the teams home city, or close by.

Maybe, but it's nearly always Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers and Pittsburgh or just Steelers. They wouldn't work elsewhere.

It is nearly always 'Raiders' very rarely Oakland or Oakland Raiders.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

It's just "ner ner ner, we've got more supporters than you, so therefore we're better than you" mentality, which just completely lacks perspective and is somehow reflective of on-field performance. Nevermind that Port has higher average attendance than Sydney, also a two team city with five times the population, or most Melbourne based teams.

By their logic, if Nickelback and Iron Maiden held a gig in Adelaide on the same night and 5000 more people attended Nickelback, that'd mean they're a better band.

More like John Farnham

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[raptalia]

Great news- Adelaide Oval to host an NRL State of Origin in 2020. Hope that those of us who are NRL Club Members will get some sort of ticketing preference.

 

[Coobk001]

Great news- Adelaide Oval to host an NRL State of Origin in 2020. Hope that those of us who are NRL Club Members will get some sort of ticketing preference.

meh, s**t sport is s**t.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Maybe, but it's nearly always Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers and Pittsburgh or just Steelers. They wouldn't work elsewhere.

It is nearly always 'Raiders' very rarely Oakland or Oakland Raiders.

I guess they have moved a few times since the early 80's that people have dropped the town name.

 

[raptalia]

meh, s**t sport is s**t.

So don't go, no one says you have to. It is one night a year ffs and the revenue it will attract into Adelaide is significant. People who want to get into a pissing contest over which is the better sport are missing the point entirely.

In 2017 the three State of Origin games drew a total of 185,000 people. I do not see why Adelaide should miss out on that. We keep complaining that people in the east regard Adelaide as a backwater yet when the State Government brings one of the biggest crowd pullers in Australian sport to the AO we still pour cold water on the deal.