What sort of mickey mouse sport would reduce players on the ground to increase scoring? Maybe soccer should get on board this genius strategy and cut to nine on the ground. Goalie can only use one hand.
Roast State of the modern game; Clarkson
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Reducing the mumber of players from 18-a-side to 15-a-side would be one of the most radical rule changes in the history of the game.
Yeah, it might work... But don't act like it's nothing much.
Kind of right direction but do not think we need to change anything drastic to game that never been done before.
The game was played with no interchange before I started following it. It then had interchange for two players up into mid 90's. Since the four interchanges started being used in a way it was never meant for we seen the eventual decline in spectacle, to such a point, that I did not even bother watching tonight. Turned on Kayo for one minute to see it was three quarter time and 50 to 23 and knew another game of rotations allowing teams to all be running up one end and back again because we continue to allow this rotation era to ruin it as a spectacle. I think we can remove the rotation era without needing to adjust the reason for bench introduction to not be abused anymore. Simply make it any player in the game can come off once for a non-compulsory interchange (non-concussion or forced blood rule type) and we get back the interchange bench to what it primarily intended for and used for most of the 80's and 90's. Simple interchanges and not mass rotations.
What in effect it would do is mean interchanges that non-forced interchanges would be brought back to numbers it was before rotations became a thing.
22 players with one interchange each is 22 interchanges to start with. Any player that comes off a second time, not for concussion or blood rule reasons is off for good. Therefore in reality the interchanges a coach can use for tactics is no more than 26 during playing time. Obviously they can still switch side around at end of quarters and half time without them counted as interchanges. But what this does is bring it right back to before rotation era and use the interchange bench for what it is intended for. Coaches were not rotating the bench players when it first went to four there. It was probably under 30 before rotations became a thing. Four on bench is perfectly fine for the type of injuries the game has in course of four quarters and also does not mean any team is disadvantaged of the rotation era where if other team rotates their 22 able and fit players , if you got anyone out of game early you are down in rotations. Just remove rotations from the game and we have our game back to what it was designed to be about. The 18 v 18 battle on field. Not the 22 v 22 rotation battle of coaching box control.
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It's an idiotic idea. The best thing about it is they'd increase interchange to six and you'd have just as much congestion.
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Late in the final quarter of tonight's game, Collingwood kicked the ball deep in attack. They had a couple of players almost take possession with Essendon defenders putting heaps of pressure on them. It was one of those ugly pack situations in the making with a dozen or more players converging on the ball from all angles and nobody able to get a clean possession. A Collingwood player grabbed the ball and as he was tackled, he didn't really try to dispose of it properly, he was happy just to let it go in front of him.
It was gonna be one of those rolling maul situations: 30 seconds of scrappy s**t with Brucey screaming hysterically, followed by a ball up...
But unlike last week... the umpire blew his whistle and penalised the Collingwood dude for incorrect disposal. The game stopped. The Essendon defender went back, scanned the field and then hit a 25m sideways pass. The Bombers then kicked the ball around the southern wing and hit 5 or 6 passes in quick succession and went deep inside their Forward 50. It was... GOOD!
The game suddenly looked recognizable as OUR GREAT GAME instead of ugly fumbleball
See, it's not rocket science. We don't need silly rule changes.
Clarkson is right: We already have rules. Pay the free kicks and the game will open up.
Umpires should never be instructed to ignore free kicks and "let it flow". That sounds good, but it actually wrecks the game.
Pay the free kicks if they're there (particularly HTB/incorrect disposal) and the standard of footy will be good.
And if BT, Wayne Carey or any other moron complains that they're "over umpiring" then take their microphone away.
It was gonna be one of those rolling maul situations: 30 seconds of scrappy s**t with Brucey screaming hysterically, followed by a ball up...
But unlike last week... the umpire blew his whistle and penalised the Collingwood dude for incorrect disposal. The game stopped. The Essendon defender went back, scanned the field and then hit a 25m sideways pass. The Bombers then kicked the ball around the southern wing and hit 5 or 6 passes in quick succession and went deep inside their Forward 50. It was... GOOD!
The game suddenly looked recognizable as OUR GREAT GAME instead of ugly fumbleball
See, it's not rocket science. We don't need silly rule changes.
Clarkson is right: We already have rules. Pay the free kicks and the game will open up.
Umpires should never be instructed to ignore free kicks and "let it flow". That sounds good, but it actually wrecks the game.
Pay the free kicks if they're there (particularly HTB/incorrect disposal) and the standard of footy will be good.
And if BT, Wayne Carey or any other moron complains that they're "over umpiring" then take their microphone away.
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That's a solid block of text that I'm too drunk to read. I think I get the gist though and I agree.
Don't worry. First draft was typed quick and needed editing to fix up...lol.. Readable in morning when sober.
Puts his stubby down...
I think I get your gist and I’m all for it. Get the players buggered again so that they can’t be all things and doing all things.
Players get tired .. less congestion.. tackles get sloppy . If we can get it back to just beating your opponent to the ball instead of having to beat half the opposition .. it should improve. Country footy is still good to watch so there is nothing wrong with game inherently just the professionals have out grown the size of the oval.
- Jul 13, 2015
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So far this round the umpires have paid only a couple of extra holding the ball free kicks. Mainly because players have been quicker to dispose of it rather tha sit on it and wait for a ball up.
The threat of more frees was enough to get coaches looking to move the ball more.
Thursday night was a great game. We saw kicks to packs and kicks to one on ones with players backing their team to mark it or gather the spoils and move.
Last night didnt look too bad once Essendon woke up and started playing, even in the wet.
Hopefully this continues.
All the talk of drastic changes needed is looking just silly.
The threat of more frees was enough to get coaches looking to move the ball more.
Thursday night was a great game. We saw kicks to packs and kicks to one on ones with players backing their team to mark it or gather the spoils and move.
Last night didnt look too bad once Essendon woke up and started playing, even in the wet.
Hopefully this continues.
All the talk of drastic changes needed is looking just silly.
Jack Gun Cyril Stun
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I’m keen to watch the whole round unfold first but yep the simple threat /intent to pay HTB or incorrect disposal makes a big difference without needing more free kicks.
It also works in reverse where if the umpire calls clearly and early about the duty of care on the tackler not to infringe then this gives the ball player a fraction better opportunity to dispose cleanly, particularly at the bottom of a pack.
Pay it early and clearly and the players are on notice and the game is better for it without needing more free kicks.
crackertiger
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Just make umpires accountable. It's easy. The absolute howlers should not be ignored.
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Make the AFL accountable. They fiddle with rules constantly. Almost always majing things worse.
Jazny
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This is what needs to happen, all the other options are kind of just band aids.
Can we do that anyway?
I'd even accept sticking it up their clackers and listening to their bodily functions for a few hours as a compromise.
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Yep, if it's a free, pay it. If you can't see properly, don't guess, it's play on.
Limit interchange, the game and the season are a marathon, part of it is player management / survival of the fittest.
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So we aspire to a game where only an idiot would try to win the ball in traffic.
That's going to play out well.
St Plugger
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It's not as radical as you obviously think.
Historically teams playing Australian rules have been "free", 20, 18, 16 and 15. Plenty of scratch matches have had teams of 12 and 14.
The AFL, and some of the second level leagues play 18 aside, but currently MANY local leagues , juniors and the womens leagues including AFLW play either 16 aside or 15 aside competitions.
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_RT_
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IMO if you want to open up the game then start with the following changes.
Remove the cap on rotations.
If you've got players expected to cover anywhere up to 16km a game teams are going to look for ways to gets them rest breaks without having to waste a rotation on the bench, which is why I believe you get repeated stoppages particularly late in quarters as sides that are struggling to keep in touch look for close down the fitter team. Back in the late 2000s early 2010s when sides like Geelong & Collingwood were able to constantly rotate players on and off the ground, they were scoring much higher totals per game and were able to run opponents off their legs which then opened the games up as they wore on. By having players being fresher for longer during games it gives them more ability to come on for a 5 minute burst where they run as hard as possible and then get a breather for a couple of minutes and then go hard again.
When Clarkson came in with his cluster around the contest and zones away from them that made it harder for teams to break into space. That tactic started to slow down the Pies & Cats in particular which led to most sides adopting the tactic, including those sides themselves. Now you have all 18 teams able to use zones and presses to shut down games. There are some sides who have developed the ability to run harder for longer with the restrictions around the interchange and who look quite good when they are able to get their running game up and going, but again most sides are too well versed at setting up defensively that it doesn't often work until late in games once the younger teams tire.
Pay incorrect disposal/holding the ball frees more.
How many times have you watched players absorb a tackle then flail around like a fish out of water to look like they are trying to dispose of the ball which then leads to a stoppage. If you bring in stricter interpretations around incorrect disposal/holding the ball it will open the game up. A player tackled with an arm pinned who can't get a legal disposal away or just holds the ball in should be pinged for holding/incorrect disposal. Removes the chances of repeat stoppages happening. A couple of players scrapping for the ball on the ground which results in a pack still becomes a stoppage, but if the player is on their feet and gets tackled then either get it out legally of pay the penalty.
Remove nominated ruck
Waiting for 2 ruckmen to get to the contest before balling it up or throwing it in just allows more time for other players to get around the contest or to set up behind the play. Just get in and throw it up and if 2 players from the one side go up then ping them for blocking in the ruck. Again removes the chances that repeat stoppages happen especially when tied in with the stricter interpretations above.
I believe that changes like this will result in games being more free flowing and also higher scoring
Remove the cap on rotations.
If you've got players expected to cover anywhere up to 16km a game teams are going to look for ways to gets them rest breaks without having to waste a rotation on the bench, which is why I believe you get repeated stoppages particularly late in quarters as sides that are struggling to keep in touch look for close down the fitter team. Back in the late 2000s early 2010s when sides like Geelong & Collingwood were able to constantly rotate players on and off the ground, they were scoring much higher totals per game and were able to run opponents off their legs which then opened the games up as they wore on. By having players being fresher for longer during games it gives them more ability to come on for a 5 minute burst where they run as hard as possible and then get a breather for a couple of minutes and then go hard again.
When Clarkson came in with his cluster around the contest and zones away from them that made it harder for teams to break into space. That tactic started to slow down the Pies & Cats in particular which led to most sides adopting the tactic, including those sides themselves. Now you have all 18 teams able to use zones and presses to shut down games. There are some sides who have developed the ability to run harder for longer with the restrictions around the interchange and who look quite good when they are able to get their running game up and going, but again most sides are too well versed at setting up defensively that it doesn't often work until late in games once the younger teams tire.
Pay incorrect disposal/holding the ball frees more.
How many times have you watched players absorb a tackle then flail around like a fish out of water to look like they are trying to dispose of the ball which then leads to a stoppage. If you bring in stricter interpretations around incorrect disposal/holding the ball it will open the game up. A player tackled with an arm pinned who can't get a legal disposal away or just holds the ball in should be pinged for holding/incorrect disposal. Removes the chances of repeat stoppages happening. A couple of players scrapping for the ball on the ground which results in a pack still becomes a stoppage, but if the player is on their feet and gets tackled then either get it out legally of pay the penalty.
Remove nominated ruck
Waiting for 2 ruckmen to get to the contest before balling it up or throwing it in just allows more time for other players to get around the contest or to set up behind the play. Just get in and throw it up and if 2 players from the one side go up then ping them for blocking in the ruck. Again removes the chances that repeat stoppages happen especially when tied in with the stricter interpretations above.
I believe that changes like this will result in games being more free flowing and also higher scoring
- Jul 22, 2013
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The under 10s don't keep score and everybody allegedly gets more out of the game as a result.
No reason to not give that a go too.
St Plugger
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That statement has no logic to it!
Firstly, there is no requirement or need to increase the number of interchange players as a result of reducing the number of players per side.
Secondly, there is only going to be 30 players on the playing field, so you literally cannot have as much congestion as when you 36 players on the field, it's a mathematical impossibility!
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St Plugger
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I think you don't quite understand the concept of the terms "leagues" and "competitions".
In your case, Auskick, the kids are playing according to the rules of their "competition" which as it happens does not require scores to be kept!
We're discussing the Australian Football League and its "competition" and I'm suggesting a way to improve the state of play in the AFL competition is to have 5-5-5 15 aside!
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By citing measures that have done ok in lower leagues, juniors and the AFLW.
I merely cited another measure that has supposedly done ok.
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No.
We aspire to a game where players try to win the ball in traffic and dispose of it cleanly rather than just dropping the ball and creating ugly rolling mauls.
The hack footballer can stand back and wait for his opponent to get the ball so he can try to tackle them. That's his choice
The good footballer will be busy trying to get the ball and use it to team's advantage and win the game.
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Do we go back to 18-a-side when we realise that 15-a-side doesn't actually solve the problem of players crowding the contest and creating ugly rolling mauls?
Or do we double down and remove another 3 players and play 12-a-side?
Or option C: none of the above, don't change the rules, but enforce the current laws, pay all the free kicks and watch the game open up that way.
Jazny
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It wont open up.
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