Roast State of the modern game; Clarkson

[Laphroaig]

I still will want to see more duty of care on the tackler when it comes to not contacting the head, neck , shoulders and pushing in the back. Esp for the player in a pack situation.

That's my main beef.

The game is already massively weighted in favour of the tackler. In the back and around the neck simply disappear from the picture after the first impact of the tackle. Anything goes after that first contact.

Additionally, the rule specifically excuses the ball carrier from correct disposal if he genuinely attempts to dispose correctly. With the exception of the make believe desperate swinging of the free arm at the pinned ball (made even more ludicrous in that we sometimes see those paid because the pretend action is not vigorous enough) - that one is officiated to the exact reverse of the rule.

For example. The player who is dragged while in the act of kicking and misses the ball gets nailed 10 times out of 10. And yet he made a genuine attempt. Silly boy should have thrown it to a team mate instead - that's play on.

Cracking down on the ball carrier even more is hardly going to be helpful. First things first. Allow him a genuine opportunity to dispose of the ball, by refusing to allow foul play to stop him.

 

[Laphroaig]

Assuming you were happy with how the game was umpired last night?

What's to be happy about?

Same old same old, with two or three absolute boners of decisions against the player in possession perched on top of the mess.

What a triumph.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

That's my main beef.

The game is already massively weighted in favour of the tackler. In the back and around the neck simply disappear from the picture after the first impact of the tackle. Anything goes after that first contact.

Additionally, the rule specifically excuses the ball carrier from correct disposal if he genuinely attempts to dispose correctly. With the exception of the make believe desperate swinging of the free arm at the pinned ball (made even more ludicrous in that we sometimes see those paid because the the pretend action is not vigorous enough) - that one is officiated to the exact reverse of the rule.

For example. The player who is dragged while in the act of kicking and misses the ball gets nailed 10 times out of 10. And yet he made a genuine attempt. Silly boy should have thrown it to a team mate instead - that's play on.

Cracking down on the ball carrier even more is hardly going to be helpful. First things first. Allow him a genuine opportunity to dispose of the ball, by refusing to allow foul play to stop him.

Glad I've found you in the real thread as I've enjoyed reading your posts on this issue. Regarding the bolded, this should only be where no prior-opportunity exists.

Last night was a good start, but there were still a few calls I didn't like (only saw 2nd and some of 3rd quarter). It will take time but it's a good start.

For mine, the rules need to be defined clearly and simply. A series of Y/N statements should be all the umpire has to work through. Remove the grey.

Was there Prior Opportunity? Y/N
If YES, player MUST dispose of ball legally. (**Clarkson's big issue**)
If NO, did the ball come loose? (NO = Ball-up).
IF YES, did the player make a legitimate attempt to dispose, or was the ball knocked free in tackle (play on), otherwise "Incorrect Disposal"

So the umpire's only decisions are was there prior opportunity, and was the ball disposed illegally.

Clarify what is Prior Opportunity (attempt to dodge/evade a tackle, x number of steps, etc). It should NOT include time after the tackle starts (no more silly salmon or penalising the stronger player for fighting the tackle) and this rule is no longer an issue.

THEN, umpires can focus on other infringements - holding/blocking, in the back (vs diving), high (vs arm-raise/duck/knee drop), etc.

Apply the rules as they are written, and we will get better quality football.

 

[Laphroaig]

Apply the rules as they are written, and we will get better quality football.

Amen. We could "trial" officiating the rules as they are written.

Sadly, I can not see that happening any time soon.

 

[iameviljez]

So the umpire's only decisions are was there prior opportunity, and was the ball disposed illegally.

Clarify what is Prior Opportunity (attempt to dodge/evade a tackle, x number of steps, etc). It should NOT include time after the tackle starts (no more silly salmon or penalising the stronger player for fighting the tackle) and this rule is no longer an issue.

As someone who umpired back in school (small weedy kid who loved footy but didn't want to die), it's so simple in theory and so, so, so complex in execution.

 

[Rhysswans13]

I was listening to Phil Gould’s Six Tackles podcast last week. Phil is a former player, coach, commentator and administrator in rugby league. I thought what he said about the state of the game in rugby league was quite relative to AFL as well. He was talking about the development of players and if the NRL was doing enough to develop players as they have just gotten rid of their top level under 20’s competition. It got me thinking would it be beneficial to have a national reserve completion in the AFL rather then leaving the development of our players to the state based competitions who are probably not all on the same page. Without the players the future of our game is nothing.

Also, we have 18 teams in the competition as opposed 16 just over 10 years ago. Nothing against the two new expansion sides but I think the level of the talent pool has spread out and probably every team has players on their list that aren’t AFL ready but are forced to play due to key players being injured, suspended etc

Finally, in the modern area every game is so accessible with numerous replays online, mobile phone apps, Kayo, 7 and Fox. Less then 10 years ago it would have been a massive effort to watch half the games of a given round unless you were a pay TV subscriber and even then the layout of the fixture had more games overlapping. The bad games are highlighted more thus giving the impression that it’s the football and the rules when most likely it’s the conditions and team match ups that affect the style of play.

Overall, I think a focus on development is needed to sustain the future of the game.

 

[iameviljez]

The Age ran a really interesting article about this today: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-footy-turned-ugly-20200703-p558ps.html

Basically, it talks about how zone, press and cluster defence has killed teams' ability to turn a rebound fifty into an inside fifty (1/2 the rate it was roughly a decade ago).

It did also briefly address one common issue - that rather than the talent pool being thinner than before, the vastly improved kicking skills of the modern player compared to decades gone by allow teams to play more conservatively and retain possession in ways that would have formerly been too risky.

Certainly, there are far more footballers taking the field than before - 396 (18 x 22) compared to 240 (12 x 20) in the early 80s. However, that's balanced against the fact that players and coaches are full-time professionals, there's far more one-on-one coaching, there's a far better elite pathway than before, and the torp is a relic of the past. The modern footballer's skills in close are pretty exceptional, too. The only thing that hasn't gotten better is set-shot goalkicking (possibly because you no longer have two or three players who kick the majority of the team's goals).

 

[Boston tiger]

Hawthorn lose the free kick count and Clarkson pipes up. Needs to do it when it’s a free kick Hawthorn type of day.

 

[Rosscoe]

#freekickhawthorn 2020 edition

 

[Laphroaig]

Finally, in the modern area every game is so accessible with numerous replays online, mobile phone apps, Kayo, 7 and Fox. Less then 10 years ago it would have been a massive effort to watch half the games of a given round unless you were a pay TV subscriber and even then the layout of the fixture had more games overlapping. The bad games are highlighted more thus giving the impression that it’s the football and the rules when most likely it’s the conditions and team match ups that affect the style of play.

A good point.

We (as in all groups involved with the game) would do well to just accept that all sports have a few great games, and what's left over is more or less equally split up between non-memorable mediocre games and absolute stinkers.

You can't change that with endless rule changes.

Rugby Union has destroyed the very thing that made it's great games great by fiddling with the rules in reaction to the stinkers. Now they have mediocre games wall to wall, and still have stinkers too. Some of them are close, some of them exciting even. But none of them goes near the few masterpieces of the pre tinkering era.

We are well on our way to doing the same.

 

[Toppa]

Just my 2 cents but coaches are entirely to blame for the game being as clogged up as it is.
I say this because:
1. They control structures
2. They instruct players to push bulk numbers at the contest causing congestion then drop a player out for the scrub kick clear to gain easy possession.
3. They are to blame for the game being played between the half back lines(because of above reason), minimal 1v1 contests, creating numbers behind the ball for a sling shot type attack.
4. Scoring is not their priority, stopping other team is
5. Afl introduced 666 for all centre square starts but then coaching makes that irrelevent the minute the ball is cleared
6. Continually kicking down the line instead of looking inside or having the courage to take that 45 angled kick to open ground up. Nah we will just create another likely stoppage, set up the clog and hope our behind the ball structure gives us an easy way fwd, rinse, repeat
6. I could go on...

This is not an attack on any 1 club as they are all responsible.

Its no coincidence that your cripps/bont/danger/fyfe/kennedy types have become so valuable and considered best players in comp - because its not their ability on the spread with ball in hand.

 

[St Plugger]

I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again, but the simplest change to reduce congestion and one that doesn't require any change to the rules to be adjudicated by the umpires is fewer players on the ground. 5-5-5 15 aside and watch the game clean up and speed up. Everyone will be gobsmacked!

 

[Pessimistic]

Hawthorn lose the free kick count and Clarkson pipes up. Needs to do it when it’s a free kick Hawthorn type of day.

Has one ruckman ever got 8 frees in a game against the same opponent ever in history?

 

[Pessimistic]

I've said it before and no doubt I'll say it again, but the simplest change to reduce congestion and one that doesn't require any change to the rules to be adjudicated by the umpires is fewer players on the ground. 5-5-5 15 aside and watch the game clean up and speed up. Everyone will be gobsmacked!

‘it does need a Decent trial period but surely the current reserves scratch matches can be used. Several people have already commented

 

[ShadeyP]

I was listening to Phil Gould’s Six Tackles podcast last week. Phil is a former player, coach, commentator and administrator in rugby league. I thought what he said about the state of the game in rugby league was quite relative to AFL as well. He was talking about the development of players and if the NRL was doing enough to develop players as they have just gotten rid of their top level under 20’s competition. It got me thinking would it be beneficial to have a national reserve completion in the AFL rather then leaving the development of our players to the state based competitions who are probably not all on the same page. Without the players the future of our game is nothing.

Also, we have 18 teams in the competition as opposed 16 just over 10 years ago. Nothing against the two new expansion sides but I think the level of the talent pool has spread out and probably every team has players on their list that aren’t AFL ready but are forced to play due to key players being injured, suspended etc

Finally, in the modern area every game is so accessible with numerous replays online, mobile phone apps, Kayo, 7 and Fox. Less then 10 years ago it would have been a massive effort to watch half the games of a given round unless you were a pay TV subscriber and even then the layout of the fixture had more games overlapping. The bad games are highlighted more thus giving the impression that it’s the football and the rules when most likely it’s the conditions and team match ups that affect the style of play.

Overall, I think a focus on development is needed to sustain the future of the game.

Agree but cost factors were a big part of this not happening so very unlikely now with economic effects of COVID to be borne out over the next 5 years especially .

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Hawthorn lose the free kick count and Clarkson pipes up. Needs to do it when it’s a free kick Hawthorn type of day.

If we don't get there this week (v GWS), we could be waiting a while.....

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

afltables.com

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Has one ruckman ever got 8 frees in a game against the same opponent ever in history?

Probably a good bet to start with Don Scott...
1967 #4 2/8 (South Melbourne)
1969 #43 2/8 (Melbourne)
1970 #62 2/11 (Essendon)
1971 #70 4/8 (Essendon)
1971 #85 5/8 (South Melbourne)
....
so many chances, but nup he always got at least one.

Looking at other top rucks:
Brodie Grundy
2014 v Essendon 0/8

On the other side of the ledger - Goldstein apparently went 5/2, (Ceglar 1/6).

Goldstein's two frees against are his only 2 for the season! (17/2 record!)

 

[Boston tiger]

Has one ruckman ever got 8 frees in a game against the same opponent ever in history?

I'd say Big Cox for West Coast would have done it many times .

 

[Boston tiger]

If we don't get there this week (v GWS), we could be waiting a while.....

AFL Tables - Free Kicks

afltables.com

Don't worry Clarko is all over it.

 

[Pessimistic]

Clarko and Toby green. Umpires for game be confused

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Port is great defensively and playing exciting attacking footy, but let’s listen to Alistair.... it’s the coaches doing nobody else.

100%.

I'm a big fan of Clarko and like listening to his ruminations on the game, but I feel the current malaise of the game can be laid directly at the feet of coaches.

Luckily we kick the ball a lot in our game and the ball can do unpredictable things when it hits the ground. Otherwise we'd be like gridiron where a game can be planned out well in advance, play by play.

 

[YippeeYiYeo]

Would just like to add that the self-indulgent flogs doing the commentary also contribute to the pathetic state of the game. Brian Taylor and Bruce are a national embarrassment doing these prime time calls.

 

[Black white]

Would just like to add that the self-indulgent flogs doing the commentary also contribute to the pathetic state of the game. Brian Taylor and Bruce are a national embarrassment doing these prime time calls.

What's wrong with saying"You get the feeling the next goals huge"5 minutes into the first quarter

 

[sdfc]

Two interchange, four reserves. Reducing the players on the ground seems a little drastic.

 

[Dr Awkward]

Thought the first two games this round have been quality games