Rumour Taylor Walker dropped (Mark Riccuito)

[DoubleBlueblood]

AFC so far in 2011, courtesy of Elite Crow sourced from prostats:


We're suffering from an almost total systems failure, but every player other than Walker is meeting minimum standards? So essentially what you're saying is that you believe it's okay to be s**t, so long as you make yourself look busy being s**t. It's like the George Costanza work theory; run around in a flustered panic, so that it looks like you must be working really hard. Seems like we've got quite a few Seinfeld fans on our list.

I didn't say anything about any other players actually

What I said was that Taylor Walker has not met the standards required of the team. Do you disagree?

In response to the - 'look busy being sh*t" theory, well if by that you mean put in 100% and still get beaten, then yes that is much preferable to looking like you don't give a rats toss bag.

Regardless of what everyone else is doing you have to meet the standards required of you. I note that you don't argue the point that Walker did meet the minimum required standards but rather that no one else did either.

In reality you can't drop the whole side (although you won't find me arguing that they all deserve to be dropped) but Tex has form for not doing what has been asked of him defensively.

 

[DoubleBlueblood]

I'm sure the players would be heeding their message.

So neither Malthouse or Roos has ever dropped a player for not meeting what they consider minimum standards?

The question is not whether the players would heed the message. It is what these coaches would do if the players didn't heed the message.

 

[swanfan]

So neither Malthouse or Roos has ever dropped a player for not meeting what they consider minimum standards?

The question is not whether the players would heed the message. It is what these coaches would do if the players didn't heed the message.

Leon Davis. Exhibit A.

 

[marvin]

Exactly right and what i've been saying also..

It's exactly what Cornes has been saying tonight and it's spot on..

A player like Dawes for example benefits so much from having Blair, Beams, Wellingham, Sidebottom doing what they do.. Their pressure closes the other team up and let's Dawes for example close them down (quite often from behind while they're trying to escape the small guys pressure)..

He also then doesn't have to do so much chasing, which is not meant to be his thing.. But our big guys seem to have to be the ones to do it, or no one does..

I agree that we could do with another mosquito forward to help out, and that working as a team defensively is crucial.

The important thing though is that while the pressure from others helps Dawes, he still has to get there and put the clamps on, which he does.

Perhaps you should go and have a look at which players are leading the stat sheet for their respective teams in terms of tackling inside their own forward 50. Get back to me with how many of them are tall, lumbering KPP's.

Inside 50 stats, I don't have (do you?)

Overall, Collingwood have Leigh Brown 4th on their team (25 tackles in 5 games), Dawes 6th (23) and Cloke 10th (18). All 3 have laid more tackles than Sidebottom (17) or Beams (12 in 5).

Roughhead (30 in 6 games), Josh Kennedy (20 in 6), Jack Riewoldt (14 in 7), Franklin (17 in 6), Pods (16 in 5), Petrie (17 in 5), Jack Watts (14 in 6) even man mountain Westhoff (13 in 7) - the days of the tall lumbering KPP leaving the pressure to others just don't exist anymore.

 

[Elite Crow]

Did anyone hear Shaun Rehn tonight? Said he wouldn't have dropped Walker. Said he is playing out of position, he should be playing out of the goal square. Last week he got his kicks pushing up the ground which shouldnt be his thing.

He talked about Brisbane and Jonathon Brown. Leigh Mathews was worried because Brown was running trying to cover too much ground. When it came his turn he was too buggered. So they told him stop worrying about defensive aspect and stay in the 50 mark. It did two things, gave him more energy for the contest so he produced more and it also gave the team structure because they knew Brown would always be there.

He also made note of our game plan of having free players in defense waiting for the uncontested ball has been worked out. Once we have the press applied against us that little quick defensive handball is too predictable.

Pretty smart bloke that Rehn guy.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Elite the lil quick hand pass is fine when it's to a running player not one flat footed on the back foot heading toward opposition goal. That's really not saying anything. It's not hard to pin players down that aren't aware of their team mates and are looking parallel or backwards before forwards.


more isolationism though from marvin
do I have to take to caps?
marvin and the rest of you who can't comprehend very simple things on their own.

Every single player there you have listed Marvin has smalls and mids assisting in locking in the ball in the forward 50 and are at the ball drop.

Westhoffs is shockingly low for a player in the MID FIELD.

Take all these players lump them with % of play in the forward half adelaide gets and no assistance from smalls and see those stats plummet through the floor.
Your presenting these 2 tackles per game and such as what?
Your taking players in teams with the best lock in 50s in the comp, players that have completely different scenarios and comparing them with the worst.
This lock in is not lead by the talls at all, get it through your head they cant keep up with their multiple opponents at the ball drop while the crows are behind the ball....

Take a good look at the average tackles of our smalls and tacklers as a whole.

KPP's are not where tackling pressure stems from, get it through your thick skulls and quit making excuses for pathetic scapegoating.

 

[marvin]

more isolationism though from marvin
do I have to take to caps?
marvin and the rest of you who can't comprehend very simple things on their own.

Every single player there you have listed Marvin has smalls and mids assisting in locking in the ball in the forward 50 and are at the ball drop.

You don't have to use caps. Reading what I wrote might help though.

I agree that we could do with another mosquito forward to help out, and that working as a team defensively is crucial.

It's not worth picking an argument with someone who's just made the same point as you.

 

[JP Sauce]

Another mosquito forward?

 

[ManInTheArena]

I think everyone is in agreeance that we need a small crumbing forward (or two) but we can hardly blame our lack of forward pressure on that. Look at the stats, we are getting smashed everywhere on the ground in all categories. We aren't applying any pressure, let alone forward pressure, do we need 21 mosquitos? Stupid Rendell, should have recruited all smalls

 

[marvin]

Another mosquito forward?

I think Wright was pretty solid in that role till he went off and could make that role his own. He did lay 3 more tackles than some teammates is his half and a bit of footy!

A fit Porps is a more than adequate defensive forward, and Knights was good defensively in 2009. I've not seen Milera or Callinan so can't comment on whether they can play the role.

Ideally for structure, I'd like to see two small forwards in the team (and Henderson could go out without us losing any marking prowess). I accept that we might not have two that can play at the moment.

 

[jenny61_99]

Perhaps you should go and have a look at which players are leading the stat sheet for their respective teams in terms of tackling inside their own forward 50. Get back to me with how many of them are tall, lumbering KPP's.

He's not lumbering! He's not putting in! He's quite capable of it, he is choosing not to do it.

 

[Elite Crow]

He's not lumbering! He's not putting in! He's quite capable of it, he is choosing not to do it.

A 194cm slow forward isn't lumbering? Irrespective of whether he is putting in or not, you can't be serious that he isn't lumbering.

 

[cmndstab]

Obviously jenny is implying that Walker's issues are with his work rate. Yes, he "lumbers", he's a tall forward. Her point is that's not the problem.

Honestly, half of you guys spend more time arguing semantics than actually trying to address any actual points.

 

[jenny61_99]

A 194cm slow forward isn't lumbering? Irrespective of whether he is putting in or not, you can't be serious that he isn't lumbering.

My understanding is that he does quite well in the agility stakes. Could be wrong, but that's what I thought. Of course, to watch him, you wouldn't know it at the moment.

 

[Elite Crow]

Obviously jenny is implying that Walker's issues are with his work rate. Yes, he "lumbers", he's a tall forward. Her point is that's not the problem.

Honestly, half of you guys spend more time arguing semantics than actually trying to address any actual points.

"he's not lumbering!" pretty clear what she said

 

[TheTonic]

Great game of footy tonight in Geelong vs Collingwood..

Tough high stakes footy.

There is absolutely no room at this level for some of the efforts Taylor has shown us in recent weeks. He is capable of reaching a par level.... if he can do that we have a serious player... if he can't he's going to continually let us down when it matters.

This week has to be about him truly understanding the issues we all speak of and getting them up to par. He has to show that commitment to the task at issue, it's a contested 1 on 1 game these days and we can't carry the example he has set recently.

After seeing tonights match... I applaud the club for taking it's stance.

 

[ruscy002]

One tackle or less for:

O'Brien
Sidebottom
Swan
Toovey (inj.)
Wellingham
Wood
Dick (sub)
Reid
Tarrant

I assume Malthouse will be swinging the axe right?

 

[cmndstab]

"he's not lumbering!" pretty clear what she said

Come on, mate. Being literal is one of the best ways to complete waste a debate. Take her in context.

"He's not lumbering! He's not putting in!". The clear implication was that she doesn't feel that Taylor Walker is failing to enact forward pressure because he is lumbering, but rather because he is not putting in enough effort.


You're far from the only person who routinely does this. I guess I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply misunderstood her point. However, I'm sure many posters go the semantic route in order to score a cheap debating point at the expense of actually having a robust discussion, and it's frustrating.

 

[Tex200]

Great game of footy tonight in Geelong vs Collingwood..

Tough high stakes footy.

There is absolutely no room at this level for some of the efforts Taylor has shown us in recent weeks. He is capable of reaching a par level.... if he can do that we have a serious player... if he can't he's going to continually let us down when it matters.

This week has to be about him truly understanding the issues we all speak of and getting them up to par. He has to show that commitment to the task at issue, it's a contested 1 on 1 game these days and we can't carry the example he has set recently.

After seeing tonights match... I applaud the club for taking it's stance.

Spot on, could not agree more. I saw the game and it reminded of why I love footy. Tough contested play, rarely was it fancy, just get the ball forward at all costs. Kick to contests, knock it forward, lots of highly pressured mongrel kicks just trying to clear the area and get some distance.

Walker would have been eaten alive out there tonight. Mind you so would most of out guys.

 

[ruscy002]

Two tackles between Reid and O'Brien in their last two games, must be on the chopping block...

 

[Elite Crow]

Come on, mate. Being literal is one of the best ways to complete waste a debate. Take her in context.

"He's not lumbering! He's not putting in!". The clear implication was that she doesn't feel that Taylor Walker is failing to enact forward pressure because he is lumbering, but rather because he is not putting in enough effort.


You're far from the only person who routinely does this. I guess I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply misunderstood her point. However, I'm sure many posters go the semantic route in order to score a cheap debating point at the expense of actually having a robust discussion, and it's frustrating.

The reason I picked her up on it is because she was asked a direct question about how many lumbering forwards lead their tackle count. She deflected this by saying he wasn't lumbering and turned it into a point about Walker not trying. Problem is that wasn't the question. The question was a fair one, she should have answered it instead of pushing her opinion.

 

[TheTonic]

Two tackles between Reid and O'Brien in their last two games, must be on the chopping block...

Because Reid and OBrian are really poor defensively. If you can't see that your poster boy is a liability in certain areas then I really doubt you have any sort of grip on what anyone has seen live or on the panel these past few weeks.

If you truly believe we are going anywhere with standards of the ilk Taylor has set you must be high off your ass!

 

[Southerntakeover]

You're far from the only person who routinely does this. I guess I should give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply misunderstood her point. However, I'm sure many posters go the semantic route in order to score a cheap debating point at the expense of actually having a robust discussion, and it's frustrating.

Thats funny, because I feel the opposite way.

I find too many posters attempt to disingenuously redefine what their original statements supposedly meant when, under scrutiny, its found to be lacking.

 

[Allefgib]

Obviously jenny is implying that Walker's issues are with his work rate. Yes, he "lumbers", he's a tall forward. Her point is that's not the problem.

Honestly, half of you guys spend more time arguing semantics than actually trying to address any actual points.

Come on mate.... She dodged the question on finding a big forward leading the tackle stats inside 50 and its someone else who is arguing semantics. Give me a break.

 

[ruscy002]

Because Reid and OBrian are really poor defensively.

Really? Nice one jokey jokemaker

If you can't see that your poster boy is a liability in certain areas then I really doubt you have any sort of grip on what anyone has seen live or on the panel these past few weeks.

I haven't said that he isn't a liability in certain areas - I was merely making the point that a genius premiership coach like Malthouse would almost certainly send these guys back to the magoos to work on this. What good is it them being excellent defenders if they can't lay a tackle?

If you truly believe we are going anywhere with standards of the ilk Taylor has set

Not on the scoreboard anyway...

you must be high off your ass!

I wish!