Updated The Bruce Lehrmann Trials * Justice Lee - "Mr Lehrmann raped Ms Higgins."

[Kurve]

Historical Rape Allegation Against Fmr AG Christian Porter
The Alexander Matters matters

Just a reminder, this is the crime board and we need to be aware that there will be victims of crime either watching this thread or engaging in here from time to time. A degree of respect in all discussions is expected.

LINK TO TIMELINE
CJS INQUIRY
FINAL REPORT – BOARD OF INQUIRY – CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
Joint media statement – Chief Minister and Attorney-General

LINK TO FEDERAL COURT DEFAMATION PROCEEDINGS

 

[Wooden Robot]

Can’t believe he is totally denying anything took place, must be no forensic evidence you would assume,

Unless I've missed something ... I've never heard of any physical/forensic evidence being presented to say an encounter/assault/alleged rape took place.
As I say, I may have missed it.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Unless I've missed something ... I've never heard of any physical/forensic evidence being presented to say an encounter/assault/alleged rape took place.
As I say, I may have missed it.

haven’t followed the case close enough.. just assumed it was he said it was consensual., going to be interesting hearing the evidence

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

If it’s solely his word against hers, it’s going to be interesting.

 

[rank and file]

While opening the case, Chief Justice McCallum also told the jurors to ignore all media coverage of the case.

"If you've read or heard any of the publicity around this case, it's very important that you put it out of your mind," she said.

"The evidence in the trial is not what you read before today or [what] you saw on television."


Like that’s going to happen.

First rule of jury duty,don't talk about media.

 

[Lady O]

In the context of denial of any sexual activity, would spending a period of time in a room with a women that was intoxicated on arrival and later found passed out and naked be considered circumstantial?

Well, let's face it, IF she was intoxicated and asleep naked, that just tells you she drank too much and took off her clothes before going to sleep.

If she was raped, then that would need to be proven. If that could be proven, then the question is, by whom? If there were other people who knew she was intoxicated and in the room asleep, then there would need to be no doubt that no person, other than the accused, was capable of raping her. It's going to be difficult without evidence, witness or admission.

 

[Kwality]

His only defence can be that no sexual activity took place. I think it will be up to her to prove that it did. Witness? Forensic evidence? Admission?

Its up to the prosecution to prove.

 

[Kwality]

Higgins 'beyond schoolies' drunk on night of alleged rape​

REMY VARGA
Ms Higgins said she was "beyond schoolies" drunk on the evening of March 22 and the early hours of March 23 in 2019.
She said her recollection was informed by what others had told after the alleged rape, which helped her "fill in the blanks".

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/lehrmann-rape-trial-brittany-higgins-to-take-stand-for-second-day/live-coverage/92b12dfd286a1c700a26cf2635052407

 

[HirdsTheWord]

its pretty amazing that he is saying that he didn't even have intercourse with her. This was never said it the last 2 years prior. maybe he did the right thing and waited for the process?

I feel its going to be quite hard for a jury to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they had intercourse without solid evidence.

proving a conviction based on pure circumstantial evidence wont be easy

going to be an interesting trial.

 

[Kwality]

its pretty amazing that he is saying that he didn't even have intercourse with her. This was never said it the last 2 years prior. maybe he did the right thing and waited for the process?

I feel its going to be quite hard for a jury to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they had intercourse without solid evidence.

proving a conviction based on pure circumstantial evidence wont be easy

Who was the defendant supposed to have told 'in the last two years prior' & why ?

The issue was being played in the political playground .

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Who was the defendant supposed to have told 'in the last two years prior' & why ?

The issue was being played in the political playground .

that's my point.

He was very quiet whilst Brittany and the media pushed the rape accusation. So the fact he's now saying they didn't even have sexual activity at all is pretty crazy.

It appears this case will come down to circumstantial evidence. Similar to the Dawson trial recently.

has anyone ever been found guilty of raping someone if there is a total absence of physical evidence? Precedence would be interesting.

 

[FrankGrimes]

its pretty amazing that he is saying that he didn't even have intercourse with her. This was never said it the last 2 years prior. maybe he did the right thing and waited for the process?

I feel its going to be quite hard for a jury to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they had intercourse without solid evidence.

proving a conviction based on pure circumstantial evidence wont be easy

going to be an interesting trial.

It’s not really amazing, he wasn’t even named until recently.

 

[Nice Swan Brother]

that's my point.

He was very quiet whilst Brittany and the media pushed the rape accusation. So the fact he's now saying they didn't even have sexual activity at all is pretty crazy.

It appears this case will come down to circumstantial evidence. Similar to the Dawson trial recently.

has anyone ever been found guilty of raping someone if there is a total absence of physical evidence? Precedence would be interesting.

If he had admitted they had intercourse and there was CCTV footage and witness statements that showed she was intoxicated to a point that it’s reasonable to conclude she’d be unable to consent then yes.

But he’s denying any sexual activity, so presumably the prosecution needs to prove that intercourse took place and also that it was not consensual.

 

[Lady O]

If he had admitted they had intercourse and there was CCTV footage and witness statements that showed she was intoxicated to a point that it’s reasonable to conclude she’d be unable to consent then yes.

But he’s denying any sexual activity, so presumably the prosecution needs to prove that intercourse took place and also that it was not consensual.

You'd think so, but if she was too intoxicated to make that decision or if she went to sleep during, then the it could still be rape.

 

[Toump Ass]

Pretty sure Brittany only reported the rape to police two years afterwards. Gonna be tough to get a conviction I think.

 

[spike101]

Pretty sure Brittany only reported the rape to police two years afterwards. Gonna be tough to get a conviction I think.

Three other women have come forward and alleged that the same man had behaved inappropriately toward them between 2016 and 2020. He has also spent time in a rehabilitation clinic since Higgins went public.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Pretty sure Brittany only reported the rape to police two years afterwards. Gonna be tough to get a conviction I think.

Going to media first then police won’t help her case..no forensic going to make it really hard

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Three other women have come forward and alleged that the same man had behaved inappropriately toward them between 2016 and 2020. He has also spent time in a rehabilitation clinic since Higgins went public.

Irrelevant

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Three other women have come forward and alleged that the same man had behaved inappropriately toward them between 2016 and 2020. He has also spent time in a rehabilitation clinic since Higgins went public.

what does the fact he spent time in a rehab have anything to do with it?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

You'd think so, but if she was too intoxicated to make that decision or if she went to sleep during, then the it could still be rape.

for it to be rape you need to prove they actually slept together.

he is claiming they had no sexual interaction Whatsoever.

unless there is physical proof, it wil come down to circumstantial evidence.

 

[BFew]

proving a conviction based on pure circumstantial evidence wont be easy

Especially if they aren't allowed to bring up all of the allegations XYZ reported in the media in the last few years about the accused, which would be required for any successful prosecution based on the accused's propensity for XYZ.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Especially if they aren't allowed to bring up all of the allegations XYZ reported in the media in the last few years about the accused, which would amount to any prosecution based on the accused's propensity for XYZ.

I personally think going to the media before the police was the biggest mistake. It appears that’s what she has done.

and I think if he is found not guilty, he probably has a good claim for defamation.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

It’s not really amazing, he wasn’t even named until recently.

huh?

he was named in august 21. That is over a year ago.

 

[Toump Ass]

Going to media first then police won’t help her case..no forensic going to make it really hard

Unless the accused totally botched his interviews with the police and they can demonstrate that he lied about heaps of s**t, they have CCTV of him leaving the building an hour afterwards when said he only ducked in etc.
Still gonna be tough though.

 

[Kurve]

The text exchanges Higgins sent to her friends indicate she wasn't naked at all but becoming aware, was half dressed. If the bottom half of her clothes had been removed, that might tend to lend credibility to her statement.

This is contemporaneous evidence that something in the nature of an assault occurred imo.

 

[Kwality]

You'd think so, but if she was too intoxicated to make that decision or if she went to sleep during, then the it could still be rape.

In her second police interview – on May 26, 2021 – Ms Higgins said she couldn’t recall how she got to the ’80s-themed venue and her memory was “patchy”.

“I don’t even have a full memory of leaving The Dock,” she said.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/he-tried-to-kiss-me-weeks-earlier-higgins/news-story/99e58f562980b4abc9194610c89db29a

Some meat there for the cross examination.