Mega Thread The Father-Son Mega thread - 2019

[Brant]

after watching the finals of the nableague, my thinking has changed a little.

if a bid comes in before our pick which is likely pick 13 (Green - GWS, Henry - Frem Bids) we might not match it?, i think anything after our first pick is reasonable, but top 12 we might not match? idk how the club sees it?

What are your thoughts on Kemp, Davo-27 ?

Will his injury let him slide a bit or will he still go early?

 

[Davo-27]

What are your thoughts on Kemp, Davo-27 ?

Will his injury let him slide a bit or will he still go early?

thats the question, he should go top 5, we dont have the medical reports or know what clubs will do?

 

[Jaeger]

 

[Zack]

I think the kick on Finn was athleticism he didn't have it, yet he pantsed Anderson apparently the number two pick and Rowell was well slowish nothing wrong with that if your peak is Mitchell a Brownlow medallist.
The ESPN view of him is interesting but we all know who it is... it basically says weaknesses ability to turn pace and agility given the draft camp to the football field. That's almost an inference someone was tanking on field... which is why we didn't commit... why didn't we have a deeper convo I don't know.
For the first time in a while I'd argue the match perhaps should happen early, definitely hoping it comes late. So we pay less. Anyway to Scott Maginness thank-you for teaching you child how to kick, if only Chris Langford did the same for his children, might have had 3 still playing.

 

[Deleted member 170709]

Would there be 2 good prospects available at picks 30 and 42?
Thinking at 30 could be good but not sure at 42.
Is a haul of 11 + Finn + pick 61 infinitely better than a haul of 11, 30 and 42 recruits?
I'm sure it is but covering that base.
I'm also sure we could deal to get 30 and 42 higher.
And does anybody have calcs what points/picks would be needed if Finn is bid at 25, or even 31?

 

[The German Hunter]

Impressive young man.
Can’t wait to see him don the brown and gold

 

[Chioli]

I think the kick on Finn was athleticism he didn't have it, yet he pantsed Anderson apparently the number two pick and Rowell was well slowish nothing wrong with that if your peak is Mitchell a Brownlow medallist.
The ESPN view of him is interesting but we all know who it is... it basically says weaknesses ability to turn pace and agility given the draft camp to the football field. That's almost an inference someone was tanking on field... which is why we didn't commit... why didn't we have a deeper convo I don't know.
For the first time in a while I'd argue the match perhaps should happen early, definitely hoping it comes late. So we pay less. Anyway to Scott Maginness thank-you for teaching you child how to kick, if only Chris Langford did the same for his children, might have had 3 still playing.

His biggest flaw is 100% his kicking

 

[Bugs1977]

His biggest flaw is 100% his kicking

No doubt but like a lot of kids when they become full time professional footballers this is something that can be improved upon. Finn who by all reports is a hard worker so if that’s his only wart then you’d be very confident he’ll get better quickly at his kicking.

On a side note I’d be getting Finn to live with Tom Mitchell his first season and tell him to mimic EVERYTHING that he does. Be the first one in the gym and the last to leave and when he thinks his done it all then hand him over to Sammy Mitchell to learn all his dinky little kicks he was so good at and then I guarantee you that any 2nd + 3rd rounder we bandied together to select him will seem like an absolute bargain.

 

[Zack]

His biggest flaw is 100% his kicking

I'll say it once and I'll say it again he's no Langford on kicking he's miles in front, even if you include Will's GF in 2014 where he assed 2 goals I'll wear the third. He's worst is Will's best, Lachies mmm which is why we never saw the young kid who was supposedly the best,

BTW why do all these bad kicks, kick more goals than any other midfielders... oops that's my Ablett and Judd rule being overriden but I'd take a Ablett or Judd mid teens or beyond not 1 (take out father and son we would have lost Hodge) or Judd at 3.

I'll also make a point the last worst kick we got at TAC level was Worpel and I've struglled his whole career to work out which one of the 100 judges ever watched a game he played. Hes kicking is not dynamite but it would be in the top 20% of his draft year by a long way. Arguably higher.

 

[kazzooka]

The only way we might not draft him is if he gets a bid before 12 (factoring in GWS matching on Green). This is unlikely, but with our 20% F/S discount, us match Pick 10 (e.g.) is equivilent to Pick 15 (on points). So if we consider him better than a pick 15, we should draft him. I think that our pick 12 would be downgraded to about pick 68 if we use it on Finn at pick 10, so we get Finn and Pick 68 selction for our Pick 12.
Is this right experts?

I don't think it matter where we rate him but who is still available.

We have pick 11 but he is bid on at 8, if we think that there is 3 better players (or even 1 better that we are confident will be at our pick) we don't match.

However our next pick is 30 so even if we rate him pick 20 and there is a bid at 15 we still take him as we are getting a guy we rate at 20 for some 30 and later picks. We won't be getting anyone of Finns quality at 30 and later.

 

[CHUBBSS]

I'll say it once and I'll say it again he's no Langford on kicking he's miles in front, even if you include Will's GF in 2014 where he assed 2 goals I'll wear the third. He's worst is Will's best, Lachies mmm which is why we never saw the young kid who was supposedly the best, Chris was never home to teach them to kick. Chris was a beautiful kick. But has set them his kid's up for life in other ways by not being home so fatherhood is all relative. You're either there or you're not which is more important is up to the kid if they are happier with the inheritance rather than the parent being part of their childhood that is their choice, and if that is their choice then they are happier with the inheitence rather than learning how to kick.

BTW why do all these bad kicks, kick more goals than any other midfielders... oops that's my Ablett and Judd rule being overriden but I'd take a Ablett or Judd mid teens or beyond not 1 (take out father and son we would have lost Hodge) or Judd at 3.

I'll also make a point the last worst kick we got at TAC level was Worpel and I've struglled his whole career to work out which one of the 100 judges ever watched a game he played. Hes kicking is not dynamite but it would be in the top 20% of his draft year by a long way. Arguably higher.

Long bow to draw saying Langford couldn't kick because his dad was not around..

 

[PhatHQ]

 

[Shot of Jaeger]

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a sneaky suspicion Sydney will bid on Finn with there pick 9 (if they end up with it from the Papley deal), long term replacement for Kennedy.
It's just something they would do, maybe I just hate the Swans and want to just vent a bit at the bastards.

 

[KermitJagger]

I hope I'm wrong, but I have a sneaky suspicion Sydney will bid on Finn with there pick 9 (if they end up with it from the Papley deal), long term replacement for Kennedy.
It's just something they would do, maybe I just hate the Swans and want to just vent a bit at the bastards.

Nope, you're pretty spot on - unfortunately both Sydney and Essendon are two teams that could potentially bid on Finn based off needs.

 

[KermitJagger]

Finn Maginness

DRAFT ANALYSIS: “A hard working big-bodied midfielder who is excellent at winning his own ball and feeding it out but, also covers the ground well with his elite endurance.”

afl.draftcentral.com.au

DRAFT ANALYSIS: “A hard working big-bodied midfielder who is excellent at winning his own ball and feeding it out but, also covers the ground well with his elite endurance.”
FINN Maginness’ stocks have risen with every month, the father-son prospect for Hawthorn was not on many radars at the start of the year but caught the eye playing through the midfield in the practise matches and only got better from there. A strong showing late in the year including a three-goal game against eventual premiers Oakleigh showed he could also hit the scoreboard and a sensational showing at the combine has put him firmly in the first round of the draft. He smashed the 2km time trial showing his elite endurance and despite not showing it consistently in games, scored sub-three seconds in the 20-metre sprint showing that if he could incorporate that speed into his game more regularly, he could become a very special player.
STRENGTHS:
Endurance
Clean Hands
Core Strength
Leadership
Tackling
IMPROVEMENTS:
Accumulation consistency
Kicking
It has been a feature since the start of the year, but the combine made it known to everybody that Maginness has a fantastic work rate and unlike other midfielders who get most of their possessions around the stoppages, Maginness works hard to get back into defence as well as pushing up the ground to be an option forward of centre. His clean hands at stoppages work well with his core strength as he is difficult to bring down in a tackle and manages to keep composed to get a handball out nearly every time he wins the ball, he is a one touch player who rarely fumbles which makes his work on the inside all the more damaging. Maginness looks classy with ball in hand, but it is his work without the ball that has also impressed as he averaged five tackles a game in the NAB League. This was highlighted in the qualifying final against Eastern Ranges, laying 10 tackles and despite not winning a lot of the ball himself, showing he was willing to do the defensive work to make up for it which really highlighted his attitude. Maginness works well around the ground and uses his elite endurance to work back into defence to help his defenders, and you can certainly see why he would be favoured by his teammates as he always gives them an option around the ground and does a lot of the team things to go with his attacking attributes that make him such a highly rated talent.
His elite endurance does not always translate to big statistical games as he has only achieved over 30 disposals once this year in the NAB League – averaging 20 disposals per game. Despite not being bad numbers they are not at the level of recent top 10 prospects in previous years which is where Maginness can further improve. Maginness had four of his nine games with less than 20 disposals and he will want to work on his consistency at the next level to be a regular contributor, but at the very least he offers a strong defensive game. Maginness’ big area of improvement is his kicking composure when under pressure. When kicking for goal or with more time and space, Maginness’ technical ability is fine, but he at times tries to exceed his limitations when under pressure which produced some errant kicks. Not every player can be an elite kick, and Maginness has plenty of traits that stand him out from others, so sticking within his limitations and composing himself with his kicking under pressure will go a long way to rounding out his game better to become a more damaging player through the midfield.
DRAFT RANGE: 10-25

 

[Davo-27]

Finn Maginness

DRAFT ANALYSIS: “A hard working big-bodied midfielder who is excellent at winning his own ball and feeding it out but, also covers the ground well with his elite endurance.”

afl.draftcentral.com.au

DRAFT ANALYSIS: “A hard working big-bodied midfielder who is excellent at winning his own ball and feeding it out but, also covers the ground well with his elite endurance.”
FINN Maginness’ stocks have risen with every month, the father-son prospect for Hawthorn was not on many radars at the start of the year but caught the eye playing through the midfield in the practise matches and only got better from there. A strong showing late in the year including a three-goal game against eventual premiers Oakleigh showed he could also hit the scoreboard and a sensational showing at the combine has put him firmly in the first round of the draft. He smashed the 2km time trial showing his elite endurance and despite not showing it consistently in games, scored sub-three seconds in the 20-metre sprint showing that if he could incorporate that speed into his game more regularly, he could become a very special player.
STRENGTHS:
Endurance
Clean Hands
Core Strength
Leadership
Tackling
IMPROVEMENTS:
Accumulation consistency
Kicking
It has been a feature since the start of the year, but the combine made it known to everybody that Maginness has a fantastic work rate and unlike other midfielders who get most of their possessions around the stoppages, Maginness works hard to get back into defence as well as pushing up the ground to be an option forward of centre. His clean hands at stoppages work well with his core strength as he is difficult to bring down in a tackle and manages to keep composed to get a handball out nearly every time he wins the ball, he is a one touch player who rarely fumbles which makes his work on the inside all the more damaging. Maginness looks classy with ball in hand, but it is his work without the ball that has also impressed as he averaged five tackles a game in the NAB League. This was highlighted in the qualifying final against Eastern Ranges, laying 10 tackles and despite not winning a lot of the ball himself, showing he was willing to do the defensive work to make up for it which really highlighted his attitude. Maginness works well around the ground and uses his elite endurance to work back into defence to help his defenders, and you can certainly see why he would be favoured by his teammates as he always gives them an option around the ground and does a lot of the team things to go with his attacking attributes that make him such a highly rated talent.
His elite endurance does not always translate to big statistical games as he has only achieved over 30 disposals once this year in the NAB League – averaging 20 disposals per game. Despite not being bad numbers they are not at the level of recent top 10 prospects in previous years which is where Maginness can further improve. Maginness had four of his nine games with less than 20 disposals and he will want to work on his consistency at the next level to be a regular contributor, but at the very least he offers a strong defensive game. Maginness’ big area of improvement is his kicking composure when under pressure. When kicking for goal or with more time and space, Maginness’ technical ability is fine, but he at times tries to exceed his limitations when under pressure which produced some errant kicks. Not every player can be an elite kick, and Maginness has plenty of traits that stand him out from others, so sticking within his limitations and composing himself with his kicking under pressure will go a long way to rounding out his game better to become a more damaging player through the midfield.
DRAFT RANGE: 10-25

i agree with Strengths: Clean Hands, Core Strength and Tackling also Weaknesses: Accumulation consistency, i disagree with kicking as a weakness, that needs more context imo, if he is kicking the ball out of a contested situation then its just to gain ground, but give him space or shot at goal and he has good kicking skills imo (i just saw that they clarify this in the comment section), also i have not seen strong Leadership from him, but he does seem confident, his Endurance on field doesnt look great and his burst speed is on show maybe a couple times a game on field/rarely, but his testing is really good for endurance and speed which means he has it in him to show it more often?.

 

[KermitJagger]

i agree with Strengths: Clean Hands, Core Strength and Tackling also Weaknesses: Accumulation consistency, i disagree with kicking as a weakness, that needs more context imo, if he is kicking the ball out of a contested situation then its just to gain ground, but give him space or shot at goal and he has good kicking skills imo, also i have not seen strong Leadership from him, but he does seem confident and his Endurance on field doesnt look great and his burst speed is on show maybe a few times on field/rarely, but his testing is really good for endurance and speed which means he has it in him to do it more often?.

I would agree, can't say I see him as a strong leader. Probably something that Sandringham lacked as a whole that didn't help them come finals time.

In a perfect world, desire to get better combined with proper coaching from an AFL side will see him able to apply his athletic tools to the game a little bit better.

 

[daniel23]

We will take him if he's bid on anything after 10 surely . Just don't see that many more in front of him based on his improvement this year, he had some big games .

 

[Roger Rogerson]

i think the knock on accumulation is the reason he isnt seen as a top 10 prospect. Which is great for us. If he learns to run around near Tom Mitchell his accumulation numbers will increase.

 

[Bugs1977]

i think the knock on accumulation is the reason he isnt seen as a top 10 prospect. Which is great for us. If he learns to run around near Tom Mitchell his accumulation numbers will increase.

I remember sitting in the first row at the MCG and Mitchell got me 5 touches and I'm not even a registered AFL player. Yep he's that good

 

[Walshawk]

Nope, you're pretty spot on - unfortunately both Sydney and Essendon are two teams that could potentially bid on Finn based off needs.

With Dees likely to draft a small forward with pick 8, pick 9 (likely Blues or Swans) is where we will all be holding our breath. There are heaps of good local kids for the interstate teams to pick rather than Finn.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

i think the knock on accumulation is the reason he isn't seen as a top 10 prospect. Which is great for us. If he learns to run around near Tom Mitchell his accumulation numbers will increase.

Diesel Williams to Gerard Healy worked out well for Healy, won him a brownlow from memory.

 

[Adrian Dodoro]

I'm not sold on Finn. As a player Finn is difficult to get excited about. He is an inside mid, but he is not a grunt inside mid, not powerful, nor is he an accumulator, and he hasn't many qualities as a player on the outside. The lack of power/size, lack of speed, lack of high quality disposal, makes him sort of fall in between all catagories of midfielder. I could see him being a `hard working' mid, a B+ type.

I can see him slipping in the draft, and hopefully the Hawks get him with a discount outside the top 30. I love to get father sons and i watched his dad.

very astute observation, there is hype but recruiters will remember his limited game and his performances. When he was up against Rowell and Anderson's midfield in a final, he only found 13 touches and without the ball in hand, only managed the 2 tackles. He doesn't have a real identity as a footballer yet as Luv said, he not only needs to develop but decide his role in a team.

 

[Adrian Dodoro]

Snooze. Pick 11 will cover all early picks but for 1-4. A combo of picks in the 30's will cover everything after pick 11. So I would be surprised if we used pick 11 on him at pick 11. If he makes it to 11 we can cover with later picks. If he goes earlier then we cover with pick 11. When you have a father-son pick the smart move is to delay picking him as long as possible, even taking lesser players first, and ensuring you have a bank of picks ready to use when he's bid on by another team.

While normally you pick players in the order of their importance to you with regards to their likely availability at later picks. But when you introduce the F/S discount on a player it warps the availability variable so much (plus add in first right of refusal) that it actually rewards you to pick later. Consider Ablett, even considering the strength of that draft year, Gaz was taken with pick 40. Jarrod Waite with pick 46.

Players Geelong took before Ablett in that draft were Bartel, James Kelly, Charlie Gardener and Stevie J. Some good players but Ablett good? Not even close. And that was apparent at draft time.

Point is, the F/S rules completely warp normal drafting behaviour. If Hawthorn nominate Finn as a F/S then I would be amazed if they pick him any sooner than if they are forced or after they have already collected all their other targets. But then I'm not an actual list manager and I don't have the bigger Hawthorn picture in mind. I'm merely looking at the way the draft is distorted by the F/S mechanism.

GREAT TAKE, quite honestly - would we rather take (for example) Fischer McAsey and Finn and then no one and fill our list with rookies and delisted players. OR would we rather take Finn then Harrison Jones and Mitch Georgiades and (my personal favourite) Ned Cahill. I would take the later everytime, we have a pretty good record with picks past 30, why would we chuck them away?

 

[kirbatron]

Take best at 11 & trade in from next year - (we'll need a future second) if there is no bid at finn inside 20 & a priority target is still on the board.