Competitions The Pieman 2021 - with a difference!

[dogwatch]

PIEMAN 21 RESULTS - Round 4 v Brisbane

Back at last. Apologies for the late results.

A solid win against a side regarded as a genuine contender. A shame we missed so many opportunities but we'll take the win. Tengoals meant that overall it wasn't quite as exciting in the Pieman as last week, but the last 15 seconds stood the Kelvin comp on its head...

Pieman Player of the Week

No it wasn't 3-goal-Timmy it was that player who has been prolific in everything except goals in his 150+ game career. Jackson Macrae

6

Jackson Macrae

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

13.1

5star

HB

14.8

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.9

4star

HB

13.5

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

4.1

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.8

5star

CL

1.8

4star

nailed a beauty and takes home the PPotW award for his troubles. And probably 3 Brownlow Votes as well, just quietly.



Pieman Player of the Year

Bruce still leads the way comfortably.



The KELVIN

The result of the game was pretty certain for the last five minutes but the Kelvin wasn't decided until 10 seconds to go. What a finish!

Until Libba's long shot went through the Kelvin looked a safe bet for ossie_21 (87 pts) with jaxie1 (70) and Jeff 1975 (70) tied for third. At that stage Charlie Bucket was sitting equal last on zero.

Libba's late goal changed everything. Charlie Bucket (99) rocketed from last to first because he had Libba as a 3x. Ossie got relegated to second. A couple of other Libba speculators Northern Dogs (76) and DogBites (73) flew home to take 3rd and 4th spots, with jaxie and Jeff getting pushed down to 5th and 6th.

I can just hear Wocka 's response now ... "Just F R O" but well done to last year's Pieman collecting his first Kelvin for the year. A brave call going the Full Libba but it paid off.

Nobody got the bonus 20 points this week.

There were some substitutes applied this week because of the late switcheroo Bevo did with Lipinski and Young. For details of how that worked and who got which subs see my post above.



The PIEMAN

Despite the drama in the Kelvin the top of the leaderboard remains relatively unchanged. Boyd oh Boyd still leads the field from Wocka and Jeff 1975. At the other end of the table Struggle is finding it just that, but don't worry mate the season has a long way to run yet. One good result like Mr Bucket's and you're right back in it. He was near last a week ago.

 

[dogwatch]

Round 4 results are up! See the post above.

 

[dogwatch]

Thought bubble:

Instead of there being a 20 point bonus for whoever gets five different goalscorers I'm thinking of changing it to a jackpot system next season. It'd work like this:

• The jackpot pool starts at zero points.
• Each week the jackpot pool is increased by the number of goals kicked by the side.
• If you pick five different goalscorers (as per the rules this year for the bonus 20 points) you get a share of the jackpot.
• The jackpot pool is divided by the number of jackpot winners and is rounded up if it's a fraction. So for instance if the pool was 17 points and there were three who got five goalscorers then they'd get 6 points each (=17/3 rounded up).
• If the jackpot is won it gets reset to zero next week (but the next week's goals tally means there will still be points to be won).
• If the jackpot is NOT won then it carries over to next week.

Using 2021 as an example:

Round 1 v Collw'd - 10 goals no winners so the 10 points jackpot to Rd 2.
Round 2 v WCE - 14 goals and only Jeff 1975 was a winner so he would get 24 points (10+14) instead of the 20 under the current rules. Jackpot is reset to 0.
Round 3 v North - 25 goals and 4 winners who would therefore get 7 points each instead of 20. (=25/4 rounded up). Jackpot reset to 0.
Round 4 v Bris - 10 goals no winners so the 10 points jackpot to Rd 5.

I wouldn't introduce it this year but I'm considering it for 2022. It could get pretty interesting if the jackpot got up to 50 points or more because it would probably change behaviour in Pieman team selection. A possible variant is for there to be an automatic 5 or 10 points added to the jackpot each week regardless of the number of goals kicked. Or it could be TWO points in the pool for every goal kicked. That would make the pot escalate a little quicker.

Anyone got any opinions on this idea?

 

[BEaston]

Thought bubble:

Instead of there being a 20 point bonus for whoever gets five different goalscorers I'm thinking of changing it to a jackpot system next season. It'd work like this:

• The jackpot pool starts at zero points.
• Each week the jackpot pool is increased by the number of goals kicked by the side.
• If you pick five different goalscorers (as per the rules this year for the bonus 20 points) you get a share of the jackpot.
• The jackpot pool is divided by the number of jackpot winners and is rounded up if it's a fraction. So for instance if the pool was 17 points and there were three who got five goalscorers then they'd get 6 points each (=17/3 rounded up).
• If the jackpot is won it gets reset to zero next week (but the next week's goals tally means there will still be points to be won).
• If the jackpot is NOT won then it carries over to next week.

Using 2021 as an example:

Round 1 v Collw'd - 10 goals no winners so the 10 points jackpot to Rd 2.
Round 2 v WCE - 14 goals and only Jeff 1975 was a winner so he would get 24 points (10+14) instead of the 20 under the current rules. Jackpot is reset to 0.
Round 3 v North - 25 goals and 4 winners who would therefore get 7 points each instead of 20. (=25/4 rounded up). Jackpot reset to 0.
Round 4 v Bris - 10 goals no winners so the 10 points jackpot to Rd 5.

I wouldn't introduce it this year but I'm considering it for 2022. It could get pretty interesting if the jackpot got up to 50 points or more because it would probably change behaviour in Pieman team selection. A possible variant is for there to be an automatic 5 or 10 points added to the jackpot each week regardless of the number of goals kicked. Or it could be TWO points in the pool for every goal kicked. That would make the pot escalate a little quicker.

Anyone got any opinions on this idea?

Feel like it might actually force strategy to be more defined each week. Less incentive to go for 5x against a plodding team when there's likely less bonus on offer. Probably need more data to see how often the jackpot goes off.

Do you have any data on the optimal configuration so far? My gut says 5x1 is the hardest to make work? But that could be biased. If so, I would tend to think that static bonus should be increased if anything. Ideally you'd want each configuration at level pegging in any week.

 

[dogwatch]

Feel like it might actually force strategy to be more defined each week. Less incentive to go for 5x against a plodding team when there's likely less bonus on offer. Probably need more data to see how often the jackpot goes off.

Do you have any data on the optimal configuration so far? My gut says 5x1 is the hardest to make work? But that could be biased. If so, I would tend to think that static bonus should be increased if anything. Ideally you'd want each configuration at level pegging in any week.

Good question. I went away to find the answer.
Here it is, summarised for rounds 1-4.



This suggests that the 5x1 combo is at least holding its own against the others although the sample sizes are fairly small.
Bear in mind that Boyd oh Boyd picked 3x Bruce in Rd 3 when Bruce kicked 10 so the 3+1+1 average is a bit skewed due to that and the small sample size. I'd expect it to average out closer to the other combos in the long run.

Even if no bonus had been applied the 5x1 combo would still be averaging over 76 (although we don't know what the absence of a bonus incentive would have done to team selection).

Interestingly each combo EXCEPT 5x1 has won one Kelvin so far, yet Jeff 1975 is coming third overall and has taken a 5x1 each week.

Make of that what you will. My take is that each combo is about as "level pegging" as I could hope for.

 

[BEaston]

Good question. I went away to find the answer.
Here it is, summarised for rounds 1-4.

View attachment 1100271

This suggests that the 5x1 combo is at least holding its own against the others although the sample sizes are fairly small.
Bear in mind that Boyd oh Boyd picked 3x Bruce in Rd 3 when Bruce kicked 10 so the 3+1+1 average is a bit skewed due to that and the small sample size. I'd expect it to average out closer to the other combos in the long run.

Even if no bonus had been applied the 5x1 combo would still be averaging over 76 (although we don't know what the absence of a bonus incentive would have done to team selection).

Interestingly each combo EXCEPT 5x1 has won one Kelvin so far, yet Jeff 1975 is coming third overall and has taken a 5x1 each week.

Make of that what you will. My take is that each combo is about as "level pegging" as I could hope for.

Pretty nuts 5x1 has been selected that many more times than the other options.

Well yeah, I think a jackpot could be a good idea. Would certainly make it more fun and provide an extra element to the game.

 

[grassman75]

Well it sucks to be on holidays...just left my Pie team unchanged for two weeks and fell from 4th to god know where

 

[dogwatch]

Well it sucks to be on holidays...just left my Pie team unchanged for two weeks and fell from 4th to god know where

You fell from 3rd to 21st last week when we kicked 25 against North and Bruce kicked 10. (You just happened to be out of Juice.)

This week you actually improved to 19th. The system works!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

No changes that involve having to think, or strategise, please. I have enough trouble following my whims.

 

[grassman75]

You fell from 3rd to 21st last week when we kicked 25 against North and Bruce kicked 10. (You just happened to be out of Juice.)

This week you actually improved to 19th. The system works!

Its all good - camping with the fam was great

 

[josh the gent]

Good question. I went away to find the answer.
Here it is, summarised for rounds 1-4.

View attachment 1100271

This suggests that the 5x1 combo is at least holding its own against the others although the sample sizes are fairly small.
Bear in mind that Boyd oh Boyd picked 3x Bruce in Rd 3 when Bruce kicked 10 so the 3+1+1 average is a bit skewed due to that and the small sample size. I'd expect it to average out closer to the other combos in the long run.

Even if no bonus had been applied the 5x1 combo would still be averaging over 76 (although we don't know what the absence of a bonus incentive would have done to team selection).

Interestingly each combo EXCEPT 5x1 has won one Kelvin so far, yet Jeff 1975 is coming third overall and has taken a 5x1 each week.

Make of that what you will. My take is that each combo is about as "level pegging" as I could hope for.

On those stats it appears your 2021 rule-set and score system is nicely weighted DW.

 

[ossie_21]

This be me

 

[VL3OJ]

I like the idea dogwatch as long as the rollover doesn't make an instant millionaire point owner.

A weird alternative loosely based on Le Tour green jersey points system that may allow for those with 3 + 1*2 to compete as well
The top goal score earns 7 points, 2nd=5pts, 3rd=4pts, 4th=3pts and 5th = 2pts. 6th=1pts could be an option as well.

Pieman teams then get the points for any of their players listed above (max=21pts (7+5+4+3+2)) however it is limited to the top 3 or 5 scoring teams or so.

It means a decent 3+1*2 team could compete and expect occasional results. 2+2+1 or other combinations will still struggle.

On those stats it appears your 2021 rule-set and score system is nicely weighted DW.

 

[dogwatch]

I like the idea dogwatch as long as the rollover doesn't make an instant millionaire point owner.

A weird alternative loosely based on Le Tour green jersey points system that may allow for those with 3 + 1*2 to compete as well
The top goal score earns 7 points, 2nd=5pts, 3rd=4pts, 4th=3pts and 5th = 2pts. 6th=1pts could be an option as well.

Pieman teams then get the points for any of their players listed above (max=21pts (7+5+4+3+2)) however it is limited to the top 3 or 5 scoring teams or so.

It means a decent 3+1*2 team could compete and expect occasional results. 2+2+1 or other combinations will still struggle.

Thanks. I get where you are coming from but it seems a bit complex. The punters need to be able to follow it fairly intuitively. See the post from Dogs_R_Us above.

Agree that no single jackpot win should destroy the competition. Maybe have some sort of cap on it.
Also the original idea of the bonus was to retain an incentive to go with a 5x1. Not sure whether that's still necessary but I'm a bit wary of opening it up for any combo at this stage.

 

[dogwatch]

Pieman Handicaps Round 5 v Gold Coast 4:35pm Sat 17 April

Here are the provisional handicaps for Round 5.

 

[weltschmerz]

Provisionally, I'll go a midfielders theme. Hunter, Treloar, Bont, Dunkley, Libba.

 

[grassman75]

Ok DW - i'm back baby - time to right this listing Pie Ship

English x 2, Bont, B.Smith, Naughton

 

[Wocka]

Hi dogwatch my round 4 score on the ladder is wrong. Cheers.

 

[dogwatch]

Hi dogwatch my round 4 score on the ladder is wrong. Cheers.

You're quite right. You got 43, not 7 so you're 36 better off.

The Kelvin scores for Rd 4 are correct - the error was in transferring those scores to the season leaderboard.

How that happened is a mystery to me as all the others are correct, except one - businessfish who got 36 more than she should have. So somehow your 36 points must have found its way onto businessfish's score.

So with apologies to businessfish I've corrected the season totals below. You're still in second but only a handful of points off the lead. However businessfish has dropped a few rungs on the ladder.

The season leaderboard under the new rules is a work in progress (not fully automated yet) so perhaps there was a manual error on my part. Dunno about that - seems unlikely - but thanks for picking it up.

 

[Del165892]

Horrse x 3
Macrae
Libba

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Bruce, Naughton, English, Vandermeer, McNeil

 

[dogwatch]

Horrse x 3
Macrae
Libba

Hmmm ... it seems ScragCity would be well suited to the new rules.

 

[jaxie1]

English 2
Naughton 2
Bontempelli

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Bruce, Naughton, Baz, Treloar x2

 

[dogwatch]

Provisionally, I'll go a midfielders theme. Hunter, Treloar, Bont, Dunkley, Libba.

Ok DW - i'm back baby - time to right this listing Pie Ship

English x 2, Bont, B.Smith, Naughton

Horrse x 3
Macrae
Libba

Bruce, Naughton, English, Vandermeer, McNeil

English 2
Naughton 2
Bontempelli

Bruce, Naughton, Baz, Treloar x2

Done.