This is NOT our first Premiership

[Frodo]

It's about people. And the people who follow the Club who won the championship are from Brisbane. It is their right to be happy and proud of their clubs achievement.

The hangers on from the old Fitzroy football club would be better to move forward and support a local team.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Pffffffft!

 

[Gabriel]

I disagree. The club is what the fans want it to be.

Take the NSL for example. SoccerAustralia told the ethnic clubs to change their names, colours, logos, now you can't bring a national flag to the games that isn't Australian, etc etc. But the clubs are still ethnic because of their fans and what they believe their team represents.

If the fans don't go, the club disappears.
If the fans believe that their club is a merger, then it is.

The Fitzroy half of Brisbane Lions will only die when the fans let it die.

Until then.... Fitzroy is a part of the Brisbane Lions. Because we say so.

G.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Gabriel
I disagree. The club is what the fans want it to be.


The Fitzroy half of Brisbane Lions will only die when the fans let it die.

Until then.... Fitzroy is a part of the Brisbane Lions. Because we say so.

G.

Hey I agree A club is what the Fans want it to be...
but i still beg an answer...

The Fitzroy Football Club ltd..still exists as a non merged entity, by itself in Melbourne according to their board...So How can so many people hang their hat on a club that is supposedly merged..when in fact it wasnt..

Fitzroy has been abandoned for a look alike and the answer I am getting is...if it smells like it looks like it and tastes like it...It must be it..so therefore we will support what is put before us.....whilst the real Fitzroy is left unto itself..by its supporters

An AFL concoction, but because the real Fitzroy isnt..really a part of Brisbane what does it matter...

It just seems odd..Look ,I understand everyone has a choice as to who they barrack for, but it doesnt seem like Fitzroy are really in the Picture except as a facade..i.e. their Name has been thrown into the mix for all the Old Roys fans...so rather than flog a dead horse..i.e the Real Fitzroy Football Club ltd fans are willing to follow a manufactured idol simply because they resemble their old abandoned club..and fortunately play in the AFL..

I like Brisbane and I liked Fitzroy, but I know the F,F,C ltd still exist so it would be improper to suggest that they are actually tied to the Football and history of the current Brisbane lions except in name only.

No problem Following Brisbane Lions, but dont P*ss in my ear and tell me its raining in relation to the Brisbane F.F.C. merger..its a rouse to get Old Roy people onboard and its worked..

when the board of F,F,C. actually inform us that the club is merged..well thats when it is..

otherwise enjoy whatever is presented to you in any way you like..thats your perogative, but dont fool yourselves or others ..

PA1870


Boy, I hope I havent over stepped the mark on this one..I really dont wish to offend anyone, but it seems so simple and logical to me,,correct me if you wish ppl.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870


Hey I agree A club is what the Fans want it to be...
but i still beg an answer...

The Fitzroy Football Club ltd..still exists as a non merged entity, by itself in Melbourne according to their board...So How can so many people hang their hat on a club that is supposedly merged..when in fact it wasnt..

Fitzroy has been abandoned for a look alike and the answer I am getting is...if it smells like it looks like it and tastes like it...It must be it..so therefore we will support what is put before us.....whilst the real Fitzroy is left unto itself..by its supporters

An AFL concoction, but because the real Fitzroy isnt..really a part of Brisbane what does it matter...

It just seems odd..Look ,I understand everyone has a choice as to who they barrack for, but it doesnt seem like Fitzroy are really in the Picture except as a facade..i.e. their Name has been thrown into the mix for all the Old Roys fans...so rather than flog a dead horse..i.e the Real Fitzroy Football Club ltd fans are willing to follow a manufactured idol simply because they resemble their old abandoned club..and fortunately play in the AFL..

I like Brisbane and I liked Fitzroy, but I know the F,F,C ltd still exist so it would be improper to suggest that they are actually tied to the Football and history of the current Brisbane lions except in name only.

No problem Following Brisbane Lions, but dont P*ss in my ear and tell me its raining in relation to the Brisbane F.F.C. merger..its a rouse to get Old Roy people onboard and its worked..

when the board of F,F,C. actually inform us that the club is merged..well thats when it is..

otherwise enjoy whatever is presented to you in any way you like..thats your perogative, but dont fool yourselves or others ..

PA1870


Boy, I hope I havent over stepped the mark on this one..I really dont wish to offend anyone, but it seems so simple and logical to me,,correct me if you wish ppl.

PA1870 - I am fairly sure you mean well, with all of this, but since I have been posting on these boards, I have seen the merger explained to you, articulately, on a number of occasions, and the fact remains, that you still seem confused over some of the issues surrounding what happened.

Firstly, Fitzroy DID merge with the Brisbane Bears. In the process of the merger, PART of the Fitzroy Football Club was left as an independent entity. Not all, but PART. There is no doubting that a merger did occur.

It's not an AFL concoction, nor a plot to deceive people about Fitzroy.

The Brisbane Lions are a club that is SHARED by Fitzroy, Bears, and new Brisbane Lions supporters. Everyone reaslises that it's not just the Bears, nor just Fitzroy, but rather the Brisbane Lions - a club which aims to represent FACETS of its two merger partners.

The fact that Fitzroy, in part, remains a separate entity, does not diminish the Fitzroy heritage in the Brisbane Lions. In fact, both entities work together in order to further the rememberance of Fitzroy, and the revival of the Lions at national, and local level.

In any regard, if a club is not it's supporters, then what is it really??

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Frodo
It's about people. And the people who follow the Club who won the championship are from Brisbane. It is their right to be happy and proud of their clubs achievement.

The hangers on from the old Fitzroy football club would be better to move forward and support a local team.

What a load of crap.

Before you shoot your mouth off, and make a fool of yourself, I suggest next time you get your facts straight.

The club's name, is the Brisbane Bears/Fitzroy Football Club, trading as the Brisbane Lions.

Therefore, Fitzroy supporters have every business to be supporting the Brisbane Lions. How can they be "hangers on", when they are indeed, incorporated into the name of the club?? Pfft!

In any regard, who are you to tell others who they can, and cannot support, and the reasons why they should or shouldn't see a team as being theirs, or how they should or shouldn't relate to it?? Pfft!

What a nonsense.

 

[Olmy]

Great postings, OldLion and Gabriel.

OldLion's posting would just about have to be the posting of the year, for mine!!!

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Olmy


PA1870 - I am fairly sure you mean well, with all of this, but since I have been posting on these boards, I have seen the merger explained to you, articulately, on a number of occasions, and the fact remains, that you still seem confused over some of the issues surrounding what happened.

Firstly, Fitzroy DID merge with the Brisbane Bears. In the process of the merger, PART of the Fitzroy Football Club was left as an independent entity. Not all, but PART. There is no doubting that a merger did occur.

It's not an AFL concoction, nor a plot to deceive people about Fitzroy.

The Brisbane Lions are a club that is SHARED by Fitzroy, Bears, and new Brisbane Lions supporters. Everyone reaslises that it's not just the Bears, nor just Fitzroy, but rather the Brisbane Lions - a club which aims to represent FACETS of its two merger partners.

The fact that Fitzroy, in part, remains a separate entity, does not diminish the Fitzroy heritage in the Brisbane Lions. In fact, both entities work together in order to further the rememberance of Fitzroy, and the revival of the Lions at national, and local level.

In any regard, if a club is not it's supporters, then what is it really??

Olmy...Believe me I do mean well here......

walk me through this if you will...

Any club in any major league has coterie groups/factions/supporters etc...

the soul however , is what the members vote in..i.e. the original club..you vote..you get board members in..they rule and distribute funds players are paid or not..depending on wether the club is fluid or not...the club has several sections..

the Footballers club, the social club, etc Now if times are going rough
and the club needs to be broken up, parts are dienfranchised from the club by whatever means....But it doesnt mean that the voted in Board and core of the club has given away it soul

the F.F.C. apparentley still exists..the club formed in 1883 and admitted into the VFL in 1897...and uncerimoniuslly dumped in 1996..

It continued as a football club outside of the AFL since then, not in any football league, but still the club voted in by its members...

In other words ..The fitzroy football club ..

Olmy...correct me if I'm wrong...but as youve explained..it has been pointed out ..quite eloquently several times to me in the past...but noone has ever addressed the issue of the Fitzroy Football club ltd..est 1883
adequately...

everyone that has addressed my question has basically wanted anentity to follow in the AFL, something that they could tenuosly link back to theFitzroy Football Club est 1883 that still exists in Victoria..

what has been explained to me over and over and over again is brisbane and Fitzroy are whatever the members want...

But the Members wanted Fitzroy and the board..that is the members never voted for Fitzroy to merge with Brisbane..

as the club still exists..the F.F.C. est 1883..

what we have at Brisbane is an AFL contrived situation to bring on board all the old Roys supporters for the AFL's and now it seems Fitzroy supporters benifit..at the expense of the outfit that actually is the club that they followed..i.e. the F.F.C. est 1883.....



what is being followed is convenience...an entity contriived..basically to get You in...not necessarilly you Olmy, but the followers of the F.F.C. est 1883 that is no longer a part of the AFL as it was dumped in 1996.


the situation wasnt like West Torrens and Woodville merging..where the members allowed the two boards to work it out...

the Fitzroy situation is basically..the F.F.Club still exists with its voted in Board...which means that whatever is up their in Brisbane..is certainly not what was playing at Junction oval in 1996, nor was it sanctioned by the board, nor was the board ousted by the members.....so what we have is the Fitzroy F.C. its board and entity...being abandoned for something contrived by the AFL for the benefit of Brisbane and Australian Rules in Queensland...which many ( not All) Roys supporters have subscribed to...

in total disregard for their Football club the F.F.C.ltd..est 1883 that they use tio support...just for the satisfaction of following a logo that was once a part of their club...

If this is not the case......

Please explain or show me...where at any club meeting the members of the F.F.C est 1883 instructed their board to merge with Brisbane...or where the Football club on its own or memebers decided to leave the AFL and become a part of Brisabne...

PA1870

 

[Danni]

PA1870, I think it is important to realise that at the time of the merger, the Board did not actually have control of the club. So they couldn't decide whether they sanctioned the merger or not. What it came down to basically was merge or die altogether. The reciever didn't even have the final say on who they merged with, nor did the AFL. It was voted upon by the other clubs in the competition, then up to the reciever to see if he then sanctioned that deal as financially viable for his creditors. There was never going to be an easy option. The only thing that was a certainty was that Fitzroy was not going to be part of the competition in it's own right anymore at all.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Frodo
It's about people. And the people who follow the Club who won the championship are from Brisbane. It is their right to be happy and proud of their clubs achievement.

The hangers on from the old Fitzroy football club would be better to move forward and support a local team.

Frodo, all you talk is crap. 'The people who follow the Club who won the championship' are from Brisbane and Melbourne. Ask the 8,000-10,000 people (of which I was one) who were at Brunswick Street on Sunday whether they were mainly from Brisbane. I saw more people from the Fitzroy days, than I have ever seen before in one place at one time since the merger. And yes, representatives from the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. were there as well.

As for following a local team, well my ignorant friend, many of us do. Eight or so players from the Fitzroy Reds, including Reds captain Steve Drury, whose father played for Fitzroy, were presented to the crowd as well. The Fitzroy Juniors were also there.

Try and come up with something better than the garbage you usually offer.

 

[Roylion]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870




walk me through this if you will...

Any club in any major league has coterie groups/factions/supporters etc...

the soul however , is what the members vote in..i.e. the original club..you vote..you get board members in..they rule and distribute funds players are paid or not..depending on wether the club is fluid or not...the club has several sections..

the Footballers club, the social club, etc Now if times are going rough
and the club needs to be broken up, parts are dienfranchised from the club by whatever means....But it doesnt mean that the voted in Board and core of the club has given away it soul

the F.F.C. apparentley still exists..the club formed in 1883 and admitted into the VFL in 1897...and uncerimoniuslly dumped in 1996..

It continued as a football club outside of the AFL since then, not in any football league, but still the club voted in by its members...

In other words ..The fitzroy football club ..

Olmy...correct me if I'm wrong...but as youve explained..it has been pointed out ..quite eloquently several times to me in the past...but noone has ever addressed the issue of the Fitzroy Football club ltd..est 1883
adequately...

everyone that has addressed my question has basically wanted anentity to follow in the AFL, something that they could tenuosly link back to theFitzroy Football Club est 1883 that still exists in Victoria..

what has been explained to me over and over and over again is brisbane and Fitzroy are whatever the members want...

But the Members wanted Fitzroy and the board..that is the members never voted for Fitzroy to merge with Brisbane..

as the club still exists..the F.F.C. est 1883..

what we have at Brisbane is an AFL contrived situation to bring on board all the old Roys supporters for the AFL's and now it seems Fitzroy supporters benifit..at the expense of the outfit that actually is the club that they followed..i.e. the F.F.C. est 1883.....



what is being followed is convenience...an entity contriived..basically to get You in...not necessarilly you Olmy, but the followers of the F.F.C. est 1883 that is no longer a part of the AFL as it was dumped in 1996.


the situation wasnt like West Torrens and Woodville merging..where the members allowed the two boards to work it out...

the Fitzroy situation is basically..the F.F.Club still exists with its voted in Board...which means that whatever is up their in Brisbane..is certainly not what was playing at Junction oval in 1996, nor was it sanctioned by the board, nor was the board ousted by the members.....so what we have is the Fitzroy F.C. its board and entity...being abandoned for something contrived by the AFL for the benefit of Brisbane and Australian Rules in Queensland...which many ( not All) Roys supporters have subscribed to...

in total disregard for their Football club the F.F.C.ltd..est 1883 that they use tio support...just for the satisfaction of following a logo that was once a part of their club...

If this is not the case......

Please explain or show me...where at any club meeting the members of the F.F.C est 1883 instructed their board to merge with Brisbane...or where the Football club on its own or memebers decided to leave the AFL and become a part of Brisabne...

PA1870

PA 1870, walk through this with me will you.

Fitzroy supporters support the Brisbane Lions for a variety of reasons....most of which I have given to you already. Now I have explained most of this to you before...and received no reply or acknowledgment that you have understood this.

The Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. still exists as a seperate company....that is correct.

In 1996, it was heavily in debt and it's board sought a merger. If it did not seek a merger it would be liquidated and the club would cease to exist. The preferred merger partner was North Melbourne and the boards of both clubs were instructed to complete a merger by 5th August 1996. The new club would have been known as the North Fitzroy Kangaroos and would have played in predominately North colours. It was also agreed to use North's corporate structure....in other words the FFC Ltd. would cease to exist, in favour of the Pty. Ltd. company that currently runs North Melbourne.

However on June 28th an administrator, Michael Brennan was appointed to run the Fitzroy Football Club. He agreed to a merger of the club operations of the Brisbane Bears and the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. to take effect on 1st November 1996. There is a legal document, the infamous Deed of Arrangement that spells out exactly what was merged. This is why it is called a 'merger.' Once the merger details had been carried out and Fitzroy's debts settled, the administrator returned the company, which now had no assets, and no club or football operations to the board.

In return the AFL, the administrator and the Brisbane Bears agreed to preserve a great deal of Fitzroy's identity in the new Brisbane club. Brisbane was to change the name of it's trading company to "Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Ltd.", they were to adopt Fitzroy's logo, colours, etc etc. The AFL agreed to concessions such as preserving the father-son rule between Brisbane and Fitzroy. The Past Players of the Fitzroy Football Club and the Brisbane Bears Football Club merged voluntarily. Coteries from the old Fitzroy Football Club were transferred to the new club, which was now trading under the name of the Brisbane Lions. In short Brisbane became the embodiment of the former Fitzroy in the VFL/AFL. This is why we refer to it as a merger.

All that remains of the Fitzroy Football Club is a company limited by guarantee, that has about a 1,000 current members and shareholders. It has no football operations of its own whatsoever although it does sponsor a couple of football clubs in the northern suburbs of Melbourne. Many of it's members (incliding myself) are members of both the Fitzroy Football Club and the Brisbane Lions and see nothing inconsistent in that. For differing reasons, BOTH are continuations of the Fitzroy Football Club that was established in 1883. Legally it is the FFC Ltd. which inicndentally PA1870, was only formed in 1981. Only a club and football operations it is the Brisbane Lions. If you on't beleive me then I suggest you get yourself a copy of the Deed of Arrangement signed by the Administrator of Fitzroy and read it for youself. So yes, the person who was in LEGAL control of the Fitzroy Football Club, at the time (July 1996) MERGED parts of the club with Brisbane. Even Dyson Hore-Lacy himself acknowledges this.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Roylion


PA 1870, walk through this with me will you.

Fitzroy supporters support the Brisbane Lions for a variety of reasons....most of which I have given to you already. Now I have explained most of this to you before...and received no reply or acknowledgment that you have understood this.

The Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. still exists as a seperate company....that is correct.

In 1996, it was heavily in debt and it's board sought a merger. If it did not seek a merger it would be liquidated and the club would cease to exist. The preferred merger partner was North Melbourne and the boards of both clubs were instructed to complete a merger by 5th August 1996. The new club would have been known as the North Fitzroy Kangaroos and would have played in predominately North colours. It was also agreed to use North's corporate structure....in other words the FFC Ltd. would cease to exist, in favour of the Pty. Ltd. company that currently runs North Melbourne.

However on June 28th an administrator, Michael Brennan was appointed to run the Fitzroy Football Club. He agreed to a merger of the club operations of the Brisbane Bears and the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. to take effect on 1st November 1996. There is a legal document, the infamous Deed of Arrangement that spells out exactly what was merged. This is why it is called a 'merger.' Once the merger details had been carried out and Fitzroy's debts settled, the administrator returned the company, which now had no assets, and no club or football operations to the board.

In return the AFL, the administrator and the Brisbane Bears agreed to preserve a great deal of Fitzroy's identity in the new Brisbane club. Brisbane was to change the name of it's trading company to "Brisbane Bears-Fitzroy Football Club Ltd.", they were to adopt Fitzroy's logo, colours, etc etc. The AFL agreed to concessions such as preserving the father-son rule between Brisbane and Fitzroy. The Past Players of the Fitzroy Football Club and the Brisbane Bears Football Club merged voluntarily. Coteries from the old Fitzroy Football Club were transferred to the new club, which was now trading under the name of the Brisbane Lions. In short Brisbane became the embodiment of the former Fitzroy in the VFL/AFL. This is why we refer to it as a merger.

All that remains of the Fitzroy Football Club is a company limited by guarantee, that has about a 1,000 current members and shareholders. It has no football operations of its own whatsoever although it does sponsor a couple of football clubs in the northern suburbs of Melbourne. Many of it's members (incliding myself) are members of both the Fitzroy Football Club and the Brisbane Lions and see nothing inconsistent in that. For differing reasons, BOTH are continuations of the Fitzroy Football Club that was established in 1883. Legally it is the FFC Ltd. which inicndentally PA1870, was only formed in 1981. Only a club and football operations it is the Brisbane Lions. If you on't beleive me then I suggest you get yourself a copy of the Deed of Arrangement signed by the Administrator of Fitzroy and read it for youself. So yes, the person who was in LEGAL control of the Fitzroy Football Club, at the time (July 1996) MERGED parts of the club with Brisbane. Even Dyson Hore-Lacy himself acknowledges this.

Roy lion and MobbenFuhrer ( whom Ive talked with )

Thank you for clearing all this up..
How do the voted for board of the F.F.C.ltd feel about this matter ?
does Dyson hore-Lacys book spell out what happened truly ?
are the actions of Michael Brennan ( according to the book ) questionable ?
did the wish of the board of the F.F.C. ltd get carried out ?

but thanks for your patience..

Go Fitzroy/Brisbane/Lions/Bears etc..Football club est 1997/1883/1991...

its better than Nuthin..especially if it was sanctioned by the board of the F.F.C. ltd and the members of Fitzroy !!

PA1870

 

[Olmy]

PA1870, from what I understand, the FFC's preferred merger partner during the merger talks in 1996 was North Melbourne. The basis for this, was that the club would then have been based in Victoria.

For a variety of reasons (initially, North's procrastination, and then later, opposition clubs opposing the deal), this deal did not come about.

In Dyson Hore-Lacy's book, it mentions something along the lines of that when it was apparent that the North deal was going to fail, that "the door was open to Brisbane".

Initially, after the merger, there was some bad-blood between SOME directors of the Brisbane Lions, and the FFC. However, it seems as though this was due more to "personal" involvement, rather than an overall sense of hopelessness.

Similarly, although I think that the club (Fitzroy) itself would have liked to have had some say in the merger procedings (which it didn't, as it was being controlled by a creditor appointed administrator at the time), I believe that since then, the directors have seen it fit to have a working relationship with the Brisbane Lions, in order to pursue a revival of the Lions at national, and local level, in which all Fitzroy supporters can chose to support, and feel a part of, with distinguished links to Fitzroy.

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Originally posted by Olmy
PA1870, from what I understand, the FFC's preferred merger partner during the merger talks in 1996 was North Melbourne. The basis for this, was that the club would then have been based in Victoria.

For a variety of reasons (initially, North's procrastination, and then later, opposition clubs opposing the deal), this deal did not come about.

In Dyson Hore-Lacy's book, it mentions something along the lines of that when it was apparent that the North deal was going to fail, that "the door was open to Brisbane".

Initially, after the merger, there was some bad-blood between SOME directors of the Brisbane Lions, and the FFC. However, it seems as though this was due more to "personal" involvement, rather than an overall sense of hopelessness.

Similarly, although I think that the club (Fitzroy) itself would have liked to have had some say in the merger procedings (which it didn't, as it was being controlled by a creditor appointed administrator at the time), I believe that since then, the directors have seen it fit to have a working relationship with the Brisbane Lions, in order to pursue a revival of the Lions at national, and local level, in which all Fitzroy supporters can chose to support, and feel a part of, with distinguished links to Fitzroy.

Well thank you !!!!

Its about time..I understood this shermozzle !

Olmy..if that is the case why are there Fitzroy supporters that are against the Brisbane Lions ??

as I stated before..It was that or Nuthin' and slowly, slowly, more and more Fitzroy is creeping into thr Brisbane lair.

PA1870

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870



Olmy..if that is the case why are there Fitzroy supporters that are against the Brisbane Lions ??


PA1870

Well, I guess it all comes down to personal preference. Similarly, just like anything, people may chose not to let water go under the bridge, and continue with feelings of bad-blood.

As I said earlier, there were a number of issues, that initially caused bad-blood between some FFC and Brisbane Lions people.

Similarly, you also have those who don't understand what happened, and then there are those who for their own reasons wish to maintain a sense of "bitterness/hatred" as it helps them cope with what happened.

At the end of the day, considering the situation, and the way that events happened, it is fairly understandable, that not everyone will be able to be pleased.

You also have to take into account, that some people may not feel as though they can "relate" to a club with a 'shared' identity. Similarly, the fact that the club is located in QLD, and plays most of its games there, may not appeal to those who wish to see more live games of football each year. These people may instead, be supporting the Fitzroy Reds, or another local, or Victorian based team.

Personally, I support BOTH the Fitzroy Reds and Brisbane Lions, so I'm getting the best of both worlds! In a way, they are part of one and the same for me. A bit similar to how Christians believe in the Holy Trinity!!

I haven't spoken to all of the directors of the FFC, however, the ones who I have spoken to, have all been at least positive, that there is a future for a close working relationship between (the current) Fitzroy and the Brisbane Lions.

While D.McMahon (current board member) may have publically 'slammed' the club earlier in the year, his reason for doing so have been addressed, via the the removal of the debenture held against Fitzroy, by the Brisbane Lions. Once again, this was an issue which caused a degree of bad-blood (which I can fully understand!). Not that I have heard of McMahon's opinions since, but I would think he would at least be more receptive to the Brisbane Lions now, than what he was before they removed the debenture.

Similarly, you have board members like Bill Atherton, Dyson Hore-Lacy, and Elaine Findlay who have made press releases congratulating, and encouraging the Brisbane Lions for various reasons, at different stages.

Likewise, you also have, a number of different occasions where which both the current Fitzroy and the Brisbane Lions have clearly worked together, and consulted each other for a particular purpose. It seems to me, that the two groups have forged quite a workable relationship. It makes sense really, as I believe both are striving towards the same ends.

Then again, there is nothing stopping a member from being nominated, and being voted onto the board as a new director.

Over time, it will be essential that new, vibrant people are voted in as directors of the FFC. People with new ideas and strategies. If not, then it will only become a club which caters for a very small group of people, which will eventually die out. This is DEFINITELY not saying though, that the history and heritage of Fitzroy would be compromised. Rather, it would be looking at new ways in which these aspects of the club could be further maintained, and recognised widely in the football community.

At the end of the day, I don't feel any animosity towards Fitzroy supporters, whether they chose to support or not, the Brisbane Lions or Fitzroy Reds.

All I hope for, is a consensus that BOTH clubs, being the current Fitzroy, and the Brisbane Lions, can work together with the common goal of reviving the Lions/Fitzroy presence in national, and local football. Whether people support the particular teams or not is irrelevant to me - it's the principal behind the whole thing.

Cheers!

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870
Roy lion and MobbenFuhrer ( whom Ive talked with )

Shhhhh .... now people will know that I'm watching

 

[Port Adelaide 1870]

Mobbenfuhrer,




PA1870

 

[Svea Rike]

Inconsistencies on names

I seem to have opened a can of worms...

A number of you maintain that a new club
started in 1997, and that everything that
happened before should be discarded. This
is a bit rich, especially since one of the
people maintaining this line is clearly an
Essendon supporter.

Consider, the AFL has existed now for, what,
20-30 years (I have been out of touch over
here in the UK, and don't know when the AFL
formed from the VFL). I understand that
Essendon claims 16 premierships; how many
of these were under the AFL and how many
were under the VFL? Does our erstwhile
Bomber fan want to go behind Hawthorn in
the number of premierships stakes? Because
that is the logic of his position.

You can't have it both ways, guys. Brisbane/
Fitzroy now have 9 premierships and 10 Brownlow
medals in their locker, and you can't take that
away from us.

Get real.

 

[Olmy]

Re: Inconsistencies on names

Originally posted by Svea Rike
I seem to have opened a can of worms...

A number of you maintain that a new club
started in 1997, and that everything that
happened before should be discarded. This
is a bit rich, especially since one of the
people maintaining this line is clearly an
Essendon supporter.

Consider, the AFL has existed now for, what,
20-30 years (I have been out of touch over
here in the UK, and don't know when the AFL
formed from the VFL). I understand that
Essendon claims 16 premierships; how many
of these were under the AFL and how many
were under the VFL? Does our erstwhile
Bomber fan want to go behind Hawthorn in
the number of premierships stakes? Because
that is the logic of his position.

You can't have it both ways, guys. Brisbane/
Fitzroy now have 9 premierships and 10 Brownlow
medals in their locker, and you can't take that
away from us.

Get real.

The difference is, that Fitzroy, and the Bears identities, were merged, rather than just having a name change to one or the other (as it was in the case of the Western Bulldogs, and even in the case of the VFL changing its title to AFL).

A new AFL club, and team, was then created, which is separate, although linked, to both of the former identities. It then makes sense to only count the records from this date (1997).

After all, this club is one of a "shared" nature, in that it is one founded on two different origins. It is not just a continuation, of Fitzroy or the Bears. In this regard, it would be almost impossible to incorporate the records of both of those club into that of the Brisbane Lions. Similarly, it is also offensive, to some Fitzroy supporters who don't support BL, for Fitzroy's club records to be associated with that of the BL's. I think this is a fair enough view too. It is unfortunate then, that the AFL sees it fit, to include the Bears records as part of the BL's. Clearly this is also wrong, as it does not do justice to either the Fitzroy, or Bears supporters who now support the Brisbane Lions.

No-one is "taking away" anything. Fitzroy still has its 8 premierships (more in fact, if you are to include all of the subsequent titles). Similarly, you can STILL support Fitzroy, and all of its history and heritage, in the form that the club still exists. You could check the Fitzroy board, on this site, or even continue to the FFC's own website, at; http://www.fitzroyfc.com.au .

Fitzroy is still very much alive and well at local level in Victoria. From all appearances, the FFC is working along the lines of reviving the Fitzroy/Lions presence at local level, and also in a working relationship with the Brisbane Lions, at national level.

 

[FattyLumpkin]

Interesting thread - just a few comments.

Quite a lot of the support for the Lions here in Brisbane has come from recent converts to the code. Great news for AFL in Qld, but many of these people are hard pressed to name 10 of the teams currently playing in the competetion. These people have no or little idea about Fitzroy, it's great history, and the merger - and I think many dont even care.

For many its a case of Brisbane is winning, Brisbane is in Queensland, we support Queenslanders.....Go Brisbane. You could even see it in the bloody politicians who scrambled onto the bandwagon - "win it for Queensland" says our Premier & Lord Mayor. Never mind that it is a merged club with many supporters/members living near the ancestral home of the club.

Even the press up here got it horribly wrong. From Bad News Bears to Premiers in 15 years. We got a blow by blow description of the history of the Bears (one line about the merger), then on to "our first premiership". The Brisbane Lions Footy Club appears to have got it right - they have truly put in a BIG effort to incorporate much of the old Fitzroy history & are still sponsoring FFC if recent post are correct (The current & immediate past chairmen have been excellent in this regard - unlike Noel gordon).

So basically, most in Brisbane think of the Lions as Brisbane - with nary a thought of Fitzroy (I repeat - NOT the club itself though). I think it 10-20 years time virtually everyone will think of it as Brisbane, with scant lip service only paid to Fitzroy by anyone other than Brisbane-Fitzroy fans. Maybe even the $32,000 question on Who wants to be a Millionaire will be.....Which 2 clubs merged to form the Brisbane Lions?!

One quick thought - if the Fitzroy Team of the Century was picked say at the end of 2003 - would have Michael Voss et al made it, or even considered eligible ??

Fatty
(Fitzroy supporter from Adelaide, who moved to Brisbane & was not displeased when his Lions soon followed him)

 

[Danni]

And may I just copy some comments here to me from someone who is 'relatively' new to the game........she moved from England to Australia a few years ago.......this is where the understanding needs to come in.........she saw the bears, had no affilitation with Fitzroy......and was not around long enough with the Bears to have such an emotional affiliation to one or the other............

I have only known that AFL existed for the past 6 years (don’t blame me though as I did live in London before that! – although I did go to a couple of exhibition games at the Oval most memorably the Carlton North game when it was an absolute bloodbath – thank heavens things have changed since then. My thoughts for what they are worth are as follows:

My first ever AFL game was the Brisbane Bears – loved it, bought a scarf and haven’t missed a game in the last 6 years at the Gabba even discharging myself from hospital to attend a game!! I remember the merge and having to learn a new song!! I also remember thinking that I liked supporting the “bears” more than the “lions”. I obviously got over this pretty fast and am now a very proud roarer!!

I can understand how Fitzroy fans would feel having their club “taken away” so to speak.

I was sick of people yelling go the roys when I was in Melbourne, you didn’t see any of us (and I know most of you around me were bears from day one) yelling go the bears back!

The Lions (as they will be known next year - no Brisbane tag on the name) are a brand new entity born from the merger. Take Mama Brisbane Bear and Daddy Fitzroy Lion, mate them and you get a Brisbane Lion – and in acknowledgement of them being a two town team they are dropping the Brisbane tag next year. Do we hear Brisbane supporters moaning about the fact that even though the Gabba is the home ground we only get 11 “home” games (Demons aside) by merging we give up additional games that are taken for granted as having a 16 game package for a membership down south!!! (or whatever the correct numbers are I just know you get to see your team a heck of a lot more often down there)

All that matters right now to me is what is in our hearts and that we are all joined together in the current team and what the future may hold. I know the tears were flowing for me on Saturday and I am just a babe in arms when it comes to the club.

And this is from the lady I was holding and crying with as the final siren went on Saturday the 29th. It wasn't about who we came from, it was about who we are now, about what it meant to us here and now. And that then and there on Satuday the 29th did come from who we all used to follow over the previous years, but it can never take away from who we are now. And it is who we are now that won it.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by FattyLumpkin
The Brisbane Lions Footy Club appears to have got it right - they have truly put in a BIG effort to incorporate much of the old Fitzroy history & are still sponsoring FFC if recent post are correct (The current & immediate past chairmen have been excellent in this regard - unlike Noel gordon).

Agreed. The current sentiments of the board and administration are definitely improved on years gone by.

To my knowledge, the Brisbane Lions sponsor the Fitzroy Juniors football teams. They don't actually sponsor the FFC itself, although recent events show that the two have a working relationship.

Originally posted by FattyLumpkin

One quick thought - if the Fitzroy Team of the Century was picked say at the end of 2003 - would have Michael Voss et al made it, or even considered eligible ??

With all due respect, definitely not. Voss never played for Fitzroy, and the Team of the Century, was purely for Fitzroy players, who played in Fitzroy's time in the VFL/AFL. Including Voss, would have got off-side with a lot of people, including myself.

That's not to denegrate the man at all. Voss would make many "best-of" teams, just not Fitzroy's!

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Danni (on behalf of another)

I was sick of people yelling go the roys when I was in Melbourne, you didn’t see any of us (and I know most of you around me were bears from day one) yelling go the bears back!

Fair enough. I hope this person also noted the Bears scarves and beanies worn by a few in the crowd.

Either way, I am not personally threatened by supporters indentifying with their club in this manner. I don't see this as a huge issue, unless it is the media, or the AFL who are reporting incorrectly in this manner.

Originally posted by Danni (on behalf of another)

The Lions (as they will be known next year - no Brisbane tag on the name) are a brand new entity born from the merger. Take Mama Brisbane Bear and Daddy Fitzroy Lion, mate them and you get a Brisbane Lion – and in acknowledgement of them being a two town team they are dropping the Brisbane tag next year.

Since when has this happened?? To my knowledge, they are only suggesting that the AFL use the name "Lions" on the scoreboards in Victoria. This has already been happening for quite some time, so really, it's status quo.

The club will still be known as the Brisbane Lions.

Originally posted by Danni (on behalf of another)

Do we hear Brisbane supporters moaning about the fact that even though the Gabba is the home ground we only get 11 “home” games (Demons aside) by merging we give up additional games that are taken for granted as having a 16 game package for a membership down south!!! (or whatever the correct numbers are I just know you get to see your team a heck of a lot more often down there)

I didn't think this was an arugment of Brisbane v Fitzroy/Victorian supporters of the Lions. Judging by that comment, it seems as though people only see this issue as a case of "Fitzroy/Victorian supporters of the Lions are whingers".

In any regard, that argument isn't really relevant, as the situation as it stands, is that Brisbane based supporters still receive pretty much the same amount of games as they always have, whereas those in Victoria who supported Fitzroy, receive considerably less. Unfortunately, this is just one of those things that may have to be accepted, to some extent.

However, to my knowledge, Victorian supporters of the club haven't blamed the club for this situation (nor had a go at their Brisbane based counterparts, although that earlier statement seems to be having a go at us!), but rather commented on the AFL's lack of foresight in fixturing.

 

[Danni]

Olmy, basically her gist (and there was more of her email that I didn't copy into here) was that she feels no emotional affiliation with Fitzroy, or any longer with the Bears, but is entirely committed to the Brisbane Lions, and as such prefers to see the Brisbane Lions only stats used.

 

[Mobbs]

Fitzroy flags (includes Bris Lions) = 9
Brisbane Bears flags (includes Bris Lions) = 1
Brisbane Lions flags (includes Fitzroy & Bears) = 9

Fitzroy browlows (includes Bris Lions) = 9
Brisbane Bears brownlows (includes Bris Lions) = 2
Brisbane Lions brownlows (includes Fitzroy & Bears) = 10

That's 19 flags and 21 brownlows!