List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Billys Back]

Double the cost, half the pain: Eagles agree to bigger pay cut

West Coast players will take a bigger pay cut in 2021 to speed the club's return to normal salary cap levels

www.afl.com.au

No it doesn't. The AFL has cut the salary cap by 9 per cent, but player wages by only 3.5 per cent.

There have been some changes to list sizes and draftee contracts that make up some of the remaining 6%. Essentially every single club is over the salary cap, and the AFL left it to the clubs to determine for themselves how to get under the salary cap. The path taken by most clubs is to push money in to later years (what I like to call "doing a Treloar").

If you read any of the articles on the WC situation, they have been praised for the exact opposite of what you seem to think. The club went to the player group, and the player group elected to take a bigger cut and that money was for the express purpose of not having to back end contracts and mess up the salary cap down the road.

It will be interesting to see what the TPP situation is for other clubs that have elected to back end deals. They may find themselves in similar position as Collingwood last year with a cap so tight they need to prioritise who stays at the club and making a play for a big RFA is out of the equation.



I respectfully disagree. What West Coast did was praised by those in the industry and as stated above was done to avoid a situation where you need to back end deals and end up having to turf players out of the club to avoid breaching the salary cap.

The big difference between the two clubs is Collingwoods TPP issues are from decisions they made, while West Coasts is responding to decisions made by AFL to cut TPP by 9% but current AFLPA agreement by only 3.5% and forcing clubs to do their dirty work.

Chalk and cheese, really.



That is conjectural based on a quote stating that the club gave an assurance that the money given up by the players would go exclusively towards getting under the cap again, which is the only reason the players took a 7% pay cut instead of the AFL mandated 3.5%

Kennedy and Hurn will retire at the end of 2021 freeing up 800K-1m in the cap for 2022. WC could make a play for Cripps based off that, but I am not sure if the club is even interested in trying to lure him home.

My sense is the club feels they have enough marquee top liners and their issue is improving their depth from 22-26 best on the list, hence targeting Langdon and Witherdon.



Naitanui hasn't been on big money since 2018. He was previously our highest paid player but took a huge shave on his most recent contract (believed to be about 400K per year). Nic still gets most of the $1 million in additional service agreements, and has income independent from the club as he is basically the most recognisable person in WA.

You love footy don’t you?
I couldn’t imagine trawling through opposition club threads haha. But good on you. Respect.

 

[TradeDraft]

Would be salting the wound if he wound up killing it for the Hawks. Good on him though, like his game

Brought him into Replace Patton

 

[Scodog10]

Double the cost, half the pain: Eagles agree to bigger pay cut

West Coast players will take a bigger pay cut in 2021 to speed the club's return to normal salary cap levels

www.afl.com.au

No it doesn't. The AFL has cut the salary cap by 9 per cent, but player wages by only 3.5 per cent.

There have been some changes to list sizes and draftee contracts that make up some of the remaining 6%. Essentially every single club is over the salary cap, and the AFL left it to the clubs to determine for themselves how to get under the salary cap. The path taken by most clubs is to push money in to later years (what I like to call "doing a Treloar").

If you read any of the articles on the WC situation, they have been praised for the exact opposite of what you seem to think. The club went to the player group, and the player group elected to take a bigger cut and that money was for the express purpose of not having to back end contracts and mess up the salary cap down the road.

It will be interesting to see what the TPP situation is for other clubs that have elected to back end deals. They may find themselves in similar position as Collingwood last year with a cap so tight they need to prioritise who stays at the club and making a play for a big RFA is out of the equation.



I respectfully disagree. What West Coast did was praised by those in the industry and as stated above was done to avoid a situation where you need to back end deals and end up having to turf players out of the club to avoid breaching the salary cap.

The big difference between the two clubs is Collingwoods TPP issues are from decisions they made, while West Coasts is responding to decisions made by AFL to cut TPP by 9% but current AFLPA agreement by only 3.5% and forcing clubs to do their dirty work.

Chalk and cheese, really.



That is conjectural based on a quote stating that the club gave an assurance that the money given up by the players would go exclusively towards getting under the cap again, which is the only reason the players took a 7% pay cut instead of the AFL mandated 3.5%

Kennedy and Hurn will retire at the end of 2021 freeing up 800K-1m in the cap for 2022. WC could make a play for Cripps based off that, but I am not sure if the club is even interested in trying to lure him home.

My sense is the club feels they have enough marquee top liners and their issue is improving their depth from 22-26 best on the list, hence targeting Langdon and Witherdon.



Naitanui hasn't been on big money since 2018. He was previously our highest paid player but took a huge shave on his most recent contract (believed to be about 400K per year). Nic still gets most of the $1 million in additional service agreements, and has income independent from the club as he is basically the most recognisable person in WA.

Of course you disagree you’re biased towards your club! If the two situations were chalk and cheese your club wouldn’t have done what they did just like the other 16 clubs that haven’t taken such actions...

If we step back to consider how a well managed club has handled the situation we see Geelong who acquired 3 best 22 players and one genuine star after making a GF. Neither of our clubs were close to doing that post 2020 and yours is now reliant on retirements whereas ours will go to market post 2021.

Considering you felt it necessary to respond the way you did I’m pretty confident with my assumption you’re triggered by the discussion and the ramifications. My take is to back your club in because they’re at least better run than ours. Unfortunately though you’re in for a period of being the second biggest show in town as early as 2021...

 

[FreeTK]

Of course you disagree you’re biased towards your club! If the two situations were chalk and cheese your club wouldn’t have done what they did just like the other 16 clubs that haven’t taken such actions...

If we step back to consider how a well managed club has handled the situation we see Geelong who acquired 3 best 22 players and one genuine star after making a GF. Neither of our clubs were close to doing that post 2020 and yours is now reliant on retirements whereas ours will go to market post 2021.

Considering you felt it necessary to respond the way you did I’m pretty confident with my assumption you’re triggered by the discussion and the ramifications. My take is to back your club in because they’re at least better run than ours. Unfortunately though you’re in for a period of being the second biggest show in town as early as 2021...

You obviously didn't read the article I posted. If you did, you would know that nothing in your post makes the slightest sense at all, and in fact, West Coast was widely praised for their approach vis a vis other clubs that are backending deals in the same manner that Collingwood did in 2018 (a domino effect from recruiting beams).

 

[Scodog10]

You obviously didn't read the article I posted. If you did, you would know that nothing in your post makes the slightest sense at all, and in fact, West Coast was widely praised for their approach vis a vis other clubs that are backending deals in the same manner that Collingwood did in 2018 (a domino effect from recruiting beams).

I’ve read the article. I’m on pretty good terms with ol mate Industry Sources and they don’t know s**t

Also not here to pump up Collingwood’s tyres only deflate the Eagles. Collingwood failed. Not as badly as the Eagles, IMO, but still we took an L.

Main difference is we’ll be attracting players post 2021 whereas the Eagles won’t. Does that make sense to you?

 

[FreeTK]

I’ve read the article. I’m on pretty good terms with ol mate Industry Sources and they don’t know sh*t

Also not here to pump up Collingwood’s tyres only deflate the Eagles. Collingwood failed. Not as badly as the Eagles, IMO, but still we took an L.

Main difference is we’ll be attracting players post 2021 whereas the Eagles won’t. Does that make sense to you?

West Coast hasn't failed.

West Coast are simply in the same position as 17 other clubs having to find a way under the cap after the AFL mandated a 9% reduction. In fact, getting the players to take a 7% cut now will allow the club to aggressively pursue a trade target or RFA after this season.

On the other hand Collingwood had to launch an aggressive public smear campaign against one of their marquee players in order to get under the cap (and are still paying 300K per year of his salary for the next 5 years).

Comparing the two, and believing that Collingwood Football club is a better run organisation than West Coast is probably the most one-eyed perspective. Only on BigFooty.

Do Better!

 

[jackcass]

Why didn’t they initially rookie him at least? It seems to me the only reason he is getting an opportunity at the hawks is they potentially need a replacement for Paton and there aren’t many KP players left.

They still have Ceglar, Lewis and O'Brien to use as KPF's. Gunstan seems like having a delayed start to his season given his back surgery in December. They also added Hartigan over the offseason and while he's more generally considered a defender, he has played forward. I guess Callow just adds further depth. Personally, if I was them I'd have been talking to Baldwin. Higher risk, greater reward.

 

[partypie]

Naitanui hasn't been on big money since 2018. He was previously our highest paid player but took a huge shave on his most recent contract (believed to be about 400K per year). Nic still gets most of the $1 million in additional service agreements, and has income independent from the club as he is basically the most recognisable person in WA.

That's exactly what I said - the older guys (including Nic Nat) have already taken their hair cuts to keep the band together so no more cap space to be found there, aside from perhaps the usual progressive decrease in their yearly salaries as they get closer to the end.

 

[Johno9911]

SEN/Sam Edmund have reported that apparently Fischer McAsey

3

Fischer Mcasey

Age

23

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.8

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

3star

MG

102.3

2star

D

6.8

1star

K

3.3

1star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.3

2star

MG

102.3

2star

D

7.2

2star

K

3.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.6

4star

MG

114.8

2star

wants out of SA and will request a return to VIC at seasons end (seems very strange that this news would come out so early in the year).

Surely if this comes to light we should be jumping all over it (I know most other VIC clubs will be too), 20yo, 197cm defender could be a perfect replacement for Roughy. Believe he was also used by the Crows up forward in 2020 as well.

 

[jackcass]

SEN/Sam Edmund have reported that apparently Fischer McAsey wants out of SA and will request a return to VIC at seasons end (seems very strange that this news would come out so early in the year).

Surely if this comes to light we should be jumping all over it (I know most other VIC clubs will be too), 20yo, 197cm defender could be a perfect replacement for Roughy. Believe he was also used by the Crows up forward in 2020 as well.

Not sure we'd have the trade currency to get the deal done. Was a top 10 pick (from memory) in 2019. Maybe our 2022 1st.

 

[lenny20]

West Coast hasn't failed.

West Coast are simply in the same position as 17 other clubs having to find a way under the cap after the AFL mandated a 9% reduction. In fact, getting the players to take a 7% cut now will allow the club to aggressively pursue a trade target or RFA after this season.

On the other hand Collingwood had to launch an aggressive public smear campaign against one of their marquee players in order to get under the cap (and are still paying 300K per year of his salary for the next 5 years).

Comparing the two, and believing that Collingwood Football club is a better run organisation than West Coast is probably the most one-eyed perspective. Only on BigFooty.

Do Better!

He was actually saying West Coast is the better run organization.

Reading comprehension, team! Do Better!

 

[Johno9911]

Not sure we'd have the trade currency to get the deal done. Was a top 10 pick (from memory) in 2019. Maybe our 2022 1st.

Yeah pick 6 that year, so would probably cost a bit.

Obviously a lot of water to go under the bridge at this stage, and it is just media chat atm. I only thought it relevant as I think that's the sort player we should be targeting come the end of the season. Young KPP's who have been in the system and maybe looking to move home or looking for more opportunity.

 

[Anzacday]

Not sure we'd have the trade currency to get the deal done

Such a pity we de-listed Shaz.
He was a high draft pick to too - straight swap

 

[Seedsfan]

Yeah pick 6 that year, so would probably cost a bit.

Obviously a lot of water to go under the bridge at this stage, and it is just media chat atm. I only thought it relevant as I think that's the sort player we should be targeting come the end of the season. Young KPP's who have been in the system and maybe looking to move home or looking for more opportunity.

Would it, we traded a pick 6 for * all

 

[Scodog10]

Not sure we'd have the trade currency to get the deal done. Was a top 10 pick (from memory) in 2019. Maybe our 2022 1st.

Grundy for McAsey and their 2021 1st

 

[soreplums]

Grundy for McAsey and their 2021 1st

That will open up our cap a bit

 

[manicpie]

Oscar McDonald would handy right now, the perfect depth player for us and was free. Oh, that's right, the BF experts thought he was a dud, didn't even consider he might be able to play forward also.

 

[Anzacday]

Oscar McDonald would handy right now, the perfect depth player for us and was free. Oh, that's right, the BF experts thought he was a dud, didn't even consider he might be able to play forward also.

I’ll send the club an email and ask the coaching panel to please stop reading BF

 

[manicpie]

I’ll send the club an email and ask the coaching panel to please stop reading BF

You might have missed the point on that one. You can email the club and thank them for their vision in not even considering that he might be a handy forward, or even worse, a handy back up KPP

 

[Quicky]

Oscar McDonald would handy right now, the perfect depth player for us and was free. Oh, that's right, the BF experts thought he was a dud, didn't even consider he might be able to play forward also.

Our cap space was a hindrance. If we hadn't mismanaged the cap we could have pursued players like McDonald.

 

[Billys Back]

Oscar McDonald would handy right now, the perfect depth player for us and was free. Oh, that's right, the BF experts thought he was a dud, didn't even consider he might be able to play forward also.

He is sh1t. He plays half a game when others are spent and now the guys is the new Wayne Carey....

 

[Scodog10]

Our cap space was a hindrance. If we hadn't mismanaged the cap we could have pursued players like McDonald.

McDonald’s on Carlton’s list as a rookie so isn’t counted under their salary cap unless he’s on $80k + which is doubtful, IMO.

I’m personally a no to McDonald the forward because I think we’re well stocked at that end of the ground with Cox and Mihocek ahead on quality plus McMahon and Kelly needing exposure over the next couple of years. He held more value to us as a KPD and I’m just not sure that woupd have worked.

Carlton (because of Curnow’s injury) and the Suns were the perfect landing spots for him so it seems a good match.

That will open up our cap a bit

It would. After the PR shitstorm post 2020 Grundy would need to instigate it and I doubt Adelaide would want his contract in the current AFL environment. I think his contract is going to prove a problem moving forward...

 

[AmericanMustard]

McDonald’s on Carlton’s list as a rookie so isn’t counted under their salary cap unless he’s on $80k + which is doubtful, IMO.

I’m personally a no to McDonald the forward because I think we’re well stocked at that end of the ground with Cox and Mihocek ahead on quality plus McMahon and Kelly needing exposure over the next couple of years. He held more value to us as a KPD and I’m just not sure that woupd have worked.

Carlton (because of Curnow’s injury) and the Suns were the perfect landing spots for him so it seems a good match.



It would. After the PR shitstorm post 2020 Grundy would need to instigate it and I doubt Adelaide would want his contract in the current AFL environment. I think his contract is going to prove a problem moving forward...

Be careful, you can’t say those things about Grundy around here!

 

[Scodog10]

Be careful, you can’t say those things about Grundy around here!

I’m happy for Dave and others to @ me because it’s got nothing to do with Grundy and everything to do with the clubs shithouse list and salary cap management. Giving him 7 years was absurd because there’s no way he took the discount we needed to go that long. He turns 27 in under a month and the contract started this year!!

 

[Chrispiesssss]

I’m happy for Dave and others to @ me because it’s got nothing to do with Grundy and everything to do with the clubs shithouse list and salary cap management. Giving him 7 years was absurd because there’s no way he took the discount we needed to go that long. He turns 27 in under a month and the contract started this year!!

I agree with this completely. 5 years with triggers for the next 2 or 7 years on 800k.

I honestly don’t think he would have left either way. I think we just blinked first.