MMA-UFC UFC 259

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footyfan1978

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Only thing that really annoys me about him is for a guy who says he doesn't care what people think, he might actually care the most of any fighter I've ever seen..

Atleast he is himself though, reasonably genuine.
This is true. He says some things that contradict him a lot of times. But overall he just your typical fighter that want to believe in themselves and convince themselves they are the best at their craft.
 

phantom13

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I’ve said it before but I couldn’t imagine the confidence that you HAVE to have and carry to be a fighter. If you don’t know and truly believe you’re the best before you step into that cage you’ve really already lost. How you can balance that with being a normal adjusted human being in interviews and everyday life is pretty mind boggling (to me at least.

I think anyone at a top level being an athlete needs a selfish person, you have to invest as much as possible in yourself and that’s not a natural way to be.

So when Izzy or Conor or Jon look like pretentious dickheads in sound bites especially if it’s promoting a fight I’ll give them a pass. Where my line on that goes is very dependent on what and when and where.

In Izzy’s case I’d say 90% of the time he seems pretty sincere and genuine. He’s certainly confident and brash but he also seems pretty humble.
 

checkraiseulite

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I’ve said it before but I couldn’t imagine the confidence that you HAVE to have and carry to be a fighter. If you don’t know and truly believe you’re the best before you step into that cage you’ve really already lost. How you can balance that with being a normal adjusted human being in interviews and everyday life is pretty mind boggling (to me at least.

I think anyone at a top level being an athlete needs a selfish person, you have to invest as much as possible in yourself and that’s not a natural way to be.

So when Izzy or Conor or Jon look like pretentious dickheads in sound bites especially if it’s promoting a fight I’ll give them a pass. Where my line on that goes is very dependent on what and when and where.

In Izzy’s case I’d say 90% of the time he seems pretty sincere and genuine. He’s certainly confident and brash but he also seems pretty humble.
this. you also have to be a shameless self promoter.

otherwise you may end up like leon edwards where you’re clearly a top 5 guy - but no one will fight you and the only fights you can get are for peanuts.

whether you’re loved or hated it’s better than being in the wilderness so you have to be somewhat out there, particularly if you’re from a small market.

ufc would be hating the champs they have now compared to a few years ago.
 

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RobbyRoy

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I’ve said it before but I couldn’t imagine the confidence that you HAVE to have and carry to be a fighter. If you don’t know and truly believe you’re the best before you step into that cage you’ve really already lost. How you can balance that with being a normal adjusted human being in interviews and everyday life is pretty mind boggling (to me at least.

I think anyone at a top level being an athlete needs a selfish person, you have to invest as much as possible in yourself and that’s not a natural way to be.

So when Izzy or Conor or Jon look like pretentious dickheads in sound bites especially if it’s promoting a fight I’ll give them a pass. Where my line on that goes is very dependent on what and when and where.

In Izzy’s case I’d say 90% of the time he seems pretty sincere and genuine. He’s certainly confident and brash but he also seems pretty humble.
Seeing some of the footage of Megan before the fight really highlights the flipside of this point as well. She looked defeated and even when she was speaking positively it always sounded like she was trying to convince herself more than anything. She didn't believe in her chances at all.
 

Topkent

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Also celebrating with the belt afterwards, hmmm.

I'm not saying he def faked it, but the person I watched with both of us organically said he seemed to be putting it on. That was before I checked what others thought.

I reckon he played it up but still was a bad foul.
 

phantom13

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Also celebrating with the belt afterwards, hmmm.

I'm not saying he def faked it, but the person I watched with both of us organically said he seemed to be putting it on. That was before I checked what others thought.

I reckon he played it up but still was a bad foul.
You talking about sterling?
 

PoppedCorn

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So to be a champ champ you have to defend?

I thought wining it in the first place made u the champ??

Uh uh sorry, i know youve won the belt BUT youre not the champ yet because u havent defended
But here hold this gold strap thingy til your next fight
 

phantom13

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Yeah I am
So i didnt see him celebrate at all (saw him throw the belt down) but he did post on the gram about it saying he had his family there and they wanted him to be proud of his work. I can see both sides on that.

In terms of his carry on in the cage. Im not sure how many of you in here have been KO'd (or choked out for that matter) youre pretty out of it when you come to and even a flash KO (where you bascially go out for a split second) can rattle you. Id have to imagine between that between that and the emotional toll of being asked if youre okay to continue it would have been pretty distressing.

If im completely honest my intial thought was that he was probably little OTT (somewhere between "its just a flesh wound" and some soccer player writhing around on the ground) but on reflection theres ALOT going on there so i give him a pass.
 

phantom13

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So to be a champ champ you have to defend?

I thought wining it in the first place made u the champ??

Uh uh sorry, i know youve won the belt BUT youre not the champ yet because u havent defended
But here hold this gold strap thingy til your next fight
It really depends on your personal stance.

To me only Nunes has really done it with ANY intention of actually being active in both divisions.

I also think they totally changed the rules specifically to give Conor a chance at the "first simultaneous" thing because he is so marketable (before Conor wanted to do it Uncle Dana NEVER would have allowed it, you wanna go up and chase a belt you vacate first). It pissed me off at the time because its just going to hold up one division.

The DC one is a real wrinkle. Its not his fault Bones was such a f**k up he got himself suspended so many times but its also hard to see DC as totally legitimate when he was comprehensively beaten by Jones twice. Its not even an era thing (MJ v Lebron type stuff) we KNOW Bones beats him 9 times outta 10. He won the belt at LHW and HW, no taking away that he was a two division champ (to me at least) but a simultaneous 2 division champ... Not so sure.
 

00Stinger

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He took a big risk fighting a bloke that much bigger than him, and not just any bloke, but a division champion.
Yeah I don't agree with this at all

He took no risk by stepping up. If he lost which he did everyone would say well he went up a weight class ext. It was a no lose situation for him

Imo he tried to do what McGregor did, try and cherry pick a perceived weak champion in a higher division to try and pinch the title. He waited until Jones had left the division and looked at Jan and thought that guy is slow I can pick him apart. Execpt he couldn't
 

phantom13

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Yeah I don't agree with this at all

He took no risk by stepping up. If he lost which he did everyone would say well he went up a weight class ext. It was a no lose situation for him

Imo he tried to do what McGregor did, try and cherry pick a perceived weak champion in a higher division to try and pinch the title. He waited until Jones had left the division and looked at Jan and thought that guy is slow I can pick him apart. Execpt he couldn't
I dont think it was a huge risk (he was 20-0 before this though, he could have just stayed at Middleweight and padded his record against guys he almost certainly beats) because your right, he doesnt really lose much from the loss.

Cant agree on the division thing though, just bad timing for the both of them with Jones going up. I dont think Izzy waited at all, he hasnt exactly cleaned out Middleweight and hes very clearly a true Middleweight.
 

Topkent

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I dont think it was a huge risk (he was 20-0 before this though, he could have just stayed at Middleweight and padded his record against guys he almost certainly beats) because your right, he doesnt really lose much from the loss.

Cant agree on the division thing though, just bad timing for the both of them with Jones going up. I dont think Izzy waited at all, he hasnt exactly cleaned out Middleweight and hes very clearly a true Middleweight.
Middleweight is cleaned up, he's talking Till for his next fight. I love Till but he scratched a win against Gastelum and lost to Whittaker. If that's the best then the barrels empty. He barely even mentions Whittaker's name anymore which should be a stadium show in NZ
 

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the_interloper

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Only thing that really annoys me about him is for a guy who says he doesn't care what people think, he might actually care the most of any fighter I've ever seen..

Atleast he is himself though, reasonably genuine.
That's what sticks out for me, I feel like he'd act the exact same if you ran into him in an airport lounge or something.
 

phantom13

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Middleweight is cleaned up, he's talking Till for his next fight. I love Till but he scratched a win against Gastelum and lost to Whittaker. If that's the best then the barrels empty. He barely even mentions Whittaker's name anymore which should be a stadium show in NZ
Yeh fair point. It was more that when Jones went up (or decided to) Izzy still had the Costa fight.

So its not like Izzy deliberately hung around at Middleweight waiting for Jones to leave so he could go attack a weak division.

I also think theres some more for him at Middleweight (Cannonier, Till, even Vettori i think he only had a competitive decision win over, Hermanson with another win). He is almost certainly gonna win them all but hes only defended twice, he could do a Silva.
 

the_interloper

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Middleweight is cleaned up, he's talking Till for his next fight. I love Till but he scratched a win against Gastelum and lost to Whittaker. If that's the best then the barrels empty. He barely even mentions Whittaker's name anymore which should be a stadium show in NZ
DC mentioned Whittaker at being next up for Israel on the podcast today. Generally speaking after an annihilation like their first fight you don't want to see it again, but Rob has gone back and beaten Till and Cannonier. If he beats Costa he's basically taken out all the main contenders again so he's probably in line for another go.
 

phantom13

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DC mentioned Whittaker at being next up for Israel on the podcast today. Generally speaking after an annihilation like their first fight you don't want to see it again, but Rob has gone back and beaten Till and Cannonier. If he beats Costa he's basically taken out all the main contenders again so he's probably in line for another go.
See this is the logic i DONT like (and im not having a go at you here).

We know the Rob v Izzy fight is almost certainly gonna go the same way, we have no idea what Till or Cannonier look like (styles make fights).

I completely get the logic of you fight the guy who is ranked as #1 contender but i also think if you only ever do that youre gonna wind up with alot of 3-0 trilogies. Probably needs some balance of both.
 

the_interloper

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See this is the logic i DONT like (and im not having a go at you here).

We know the Rob v Izzy fight is almost certainly gonna go the same way, we have no idea what Till or Cannonier look like (styles make fights).

I completely get the logic of you fight the guy who is ranked as #1 contender but i also think if you only ever do that youre gonna wind up with alot of 3-0 trilogies. Probably needs some balance of both.
Fair enough, and look i'm not sure if a different gameplan from Whittaker might help but yes, he'll struggle to win.

The problem might be that neither have anyone to fight, i think Israel could end up fighting Till next but if he wins that as expected, maybe Hermannson? And if Israel beats Till and Whittaker beats Costa it's not really fair to give Cannonier a shot over Whittaker you wouldn't think.

From memory something similar happened with Velasquez and Bigfoot, i know they did a rematch when the first one was a mauling but can't remember exactly why they had to do it, maybe someone pulled out with an injury?
 

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See this is the logic i DONT like (and im not having a go at you here).

We know the Rob v Izzy fight is almost certainly gonna go the same way, we have no idea what Till or Cannonier look like (styles make fights).

I completely get the logic of you fight the guy who is ranked as #1 contender but i also think if you only ever do that youre gonna wind up with alot of 3-0 trilogies. Probably needs some balance of both.
Whittaker beat both of them though and you could easily argue that being that good he could make adjustments.
Personally I don't think he can but maybe he goes clinch and wrestle heavy and takes it closer to points.
Can't reward guys who are losing with title shots.

Cormier Stipe
Ngannou Stipe
Jones DC
Jones Gus
Connor Poirier
Holloway Volk etc

Plenty of double up fights
 

Joker91

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IF Whittaker beats Costa, he 100% deserve a rematch.

Won 10 of last 11 including wins over; Romero x2, Till, Cannonier, Souza, Brunson & Hall.

His last three fights will be wins over guys ranked 2,3,4.

You cant ask the number one contender to to do anything more to deserve a title shot.
 

phantom13

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Whittaker beat both of them though and you could easily argue that being that good he could make adjustments.
Personally I don't think he can but maybe he goes clinch and wrestle heavy and takes it closer to points.
Can't reward guys who are losing with title shots.

Cormier Stipe
Ngannou Stipe
Jones DC
Jones Gus
Connor Poirier
Holloway Volk etc

Plenty of double up fights
Yeh but when and how is important.

Cormier v Stipe fine, i think Stipe as the champion (and longest reigning in history) rematch was called for
Ngannou Stipe honestly doesnt seem that interesting to me. Smack of they want Ngannou v Jones as it will fetch more buys
Jones v DC enough time and a close enough fight (I think rematch DC was the champ Jones never lost too)
Jones v Gus was running back one of the greatest fights ever
Connor v Poirer was years apart

Rob v Izzy only makes sense cause Robs the next best guy. Izzy won pretty dominantly 18 months ago.

To be completely clear im not against it i just dont want the rematches to be the only option. Till is argurably a more interesting fight (if not more worthy). Cannonier is a fresh face as is Hermanson.

Robs earned a rematch but i dont just want the cycle to go Rob v Izzy, Rob v someone new, Rob v Izzy. Show us something fresh.
 

Struggle

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Yeh but when and how is important.

Cormier v Stipe fine, i think Stipe as the champion (and longest reigning in history) rematch was called for
Ngannou Stipe honestly doesnt seem that interesting to me. Smack of they want Ngannou v Jones as it will fetch more buys
Jones v DC enough time and a close enough fight (I think rematch DC was the champ Jones never lost too)
Jones v Gus was running back one of the greatest fights ever
Connor v Poirer was years apart

Rob v Izzy only makes sense cause Robs the next best guy. Izzy won pretty dominantly 18 months ago.

To be completely clear im not against it i just dont want the rematches to be the only option. Till is argurably a more interesting fight (if not more worthy). Cannonier is a fresh face as is Hermanson.

Robs earned a rematch but i dont just want the cycle to go Rob v Izzy, Rob v someone new, Rob v Izzy. Show us something fresh.
DJ Cejudo is another one, with Cejudo being destroyed in the first fight.

Rematch should always be the preferred option if a champ loses his belt and takes out multiple top 5 guys in a row.

No one else in middleweight deserves a shot until they can beat Rob imo. Vettori probably next in line if he can beat Till but that's another rematch Izzy has no interest in. Not a fan of putting in guys who have lost one of their last two so Till should be two wins away, especially losing 3 of 4. Holland the most interesting matchup but he's at least two wins away too
 

burge13

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Rob loses to Izzy again but if he trucks Costa you cant say he doesnt deserve a rematch. Id be far more pumped for that than Izzy v Till/Cannonier.

I also agree Izzy timed his move up very well. No chance he does that if Jones is still champ. He pulled a GSP v Bisping and it didnt work
 

phantom13

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DJ Cejudo is another one, with Cejudo being destroyed in the first fight.

Rematch should always be the preferred option if a champ loses his belt and takes out multiple top 5 guys in a row.

No one else in middleweight deserves a shot until they can beat Rob imo. Vettori probably next in line if he can beat Till but that's another rematch Izzy has no interest in. Not a fan of putting in guys who have lost one of their last two so Till should be two wins away, especially losing 3 of 4. Holland the most interesting matchup but he's at least two wins away too
Yeh I’m not saying rob shouldn’t be next, I’m saying if he loses again which we all suspect he will there should be a lot of guys going ahead of Rob at that point. Also saying there’s not a great deal of sizzle on Rob v Izzy at the moment
 

00Stinger

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See this is the logic i DONT like (and im not having a go at you here).

We know the Rob v Izzy fight is almost certainly gonna go the same way, we have no idea what Till or Cannonier look like (styles make fights).

I completely get the logic of you fight the guy who is ranked as #1 contender but i also think if you only ever do that youre gonna wind up with alot of 3-0 trilogies. Probably needs some balance of both.
so your logic is you can have a guy absolutely wipe the flaw with the whole division, but because he lost to the champion who took his belt he never gets to fight for the title until that champion loses?

Instead you reward other guys in the division with a title shot despite the fact that they can't beat the number 1 contender

The truth is Whittaker and Adesanya are clearly the two best in the division. They need to fight again
 

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