Society/Culture Victoria Cross winner Ben Roberts-Smith - Allegations of war crimes

[Power Raid]

Recurring news of the last year and longer that Roberts-Smith is a war criminal piece of sh*t who would've served Australia best by getting himself killed. His SAS brethren reporting him is not a great sign.

word is, he was hated by his peers

that's highly unusual

 

[Gough]

Andrew Hastie has been quiet of late.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

War crimes = "bad behaviour"

 

[Elroo]

hypothetically..
If someone is awarded a VC for an action then sometime later kills an innocent civilian, should the VC be rescinded?

We have had ADF members who have been discharged and had some of their medals stripped from them as a result of their actions:

ANZMI - Australia & New Zealand Military Imposter Group - Medal Cheats - Turner

Turner Robin Australia Queensland Gold Coast ANZMI, The Australian & New Zealand Military Imposters group, investigates and, where proved, publishes those who are medal cheats and valour thieves. We hold no fear or favour

anzmi.net

There is a popular belief among the Veterans community, and indeed the wider public that medals issued for service belong to the recipient to do with as they will. This belief is incorrect.

The statutes of most orders of knighthood and the royal warrants of decorations and medals include provision for the Queen to "cancel and annul" appointments and awards. Cancellation is considered in cases where retention of the appointment or award would bring the honours system into disrepute. There are no set guidelines for cancellations, which are considered on a case-by-case basis.
Honours are sometimes revoked (forfeited), for example if a recipient is subsequently convicted of a serious criminal offence. From time to time the Honours Secretary and/or The Chief of the Defence Force consider cases where information has been received which indicates an individual is unsuitable to hold an award. Sometimes the original decision to grant an honour was made on the basis of inaccurate information (including through manipulation of the public nominations system), but normally cases relate to actions that took place after the award was made. Recommendations are made to The Governor General who has delegated authority from Her Majesty the Queen to rescind an honour.

 

[jerry springer]

nice fri night dump

 

[nylexbandit]

Andrew Hastie has been quiet of late.

To be fair, I read something recently suggesting Hastie is on the right side of the culture in the SAS - i.e. was part of trying to change it away from the Roberts-Smith attitudes.

 

[Leeda]

Andrew Hastie has been quiet of late.

um why... and nothing to see here...

War crimes = "bad behaviour"

random tedious nessnes... moon plus hydroid... um nymuchch..

 

[Schneebly11]

s**t’s getting real. Redacted report drops next Thursday. The PM read the report, and even such a pro-military guy like him knows it’s game over for BRS and his mates, and has told the Commonwealth prosecutors to get ready to lay charges.

'Difficult and hard news for Australians': PM warns of content in war crimes report

A special investigator will be appointed to prosecute allegations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan as the Government prepares to release a long-awaited report into the conduct of special forces during the conflict.

www.abc.net.au

Looks like they’re royally screwed. Having their medals stripped off them may be least of their worries.....

 

[Power Raid]

sh*t’s getting real. Redacted report drops next Thursday. The PM read the report, and even such a pro-military guy like him knows it’s game over for BRS and his mates, and has told the Commonwealth prosecutors to get ready to lay charges.

'Difficult and hard news for Australians': PM warns of content in war crimes report

A special investigator will be appointed to prosecute allegations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan as the Government prepares to release a long-awaited report into the conduct of special forces during the conflict.

www.abc.net.au

Looks like they’re royally screwed. Having their medals stripped off them may be least of their worries.....

I wonder how far the fall out will go.

Imagine a situation where a soldier throws a civilian of a 4m cliff hoping he'll land on rocks. However the civilian land on a softer section, like a ski ramp, only breaking bones including his hip.

Them the soldier orders a junior to kill him. Not wanting to disobey an order in the battle field, he drops four rounds into the unarmed, injured civilian.

It is later found out the civilian had no connection to the enemy, rather he was walking 40km to buy 20kgs of flour.


For me, this requires legal recourse the the department head and the highest brass at the time. but no......just the plebs heads will roll.

 

[Schneebly11]

I wonder how far the fall out will go.

For me, this requires legal recourse the the department head and the highest brass at the time. but no......just the plebs heads will roll.

Are BRS and co "just plebs"?

They aren't dumbass 18 year old first year soldiers. They're special forces who are meant to know what the hell they are doing. SAS NCO's are given a lot of operational authority.

At the time of the killings BRS had been in the Army 16 years. In the SAS 9 years. He was a patrol commander. Had extensive Afghan experience.

Not killing unarmed prisoners is the s**t you learn on first week of basic training. There's no excuse for a near decade long SAS patrol commander to not know that stuff.

I can see how higher ups should have known and acted. It was clear from the operators who spoke out on 4 Corners and 60 Minutes that the knowledge of the killings was widespread, to the point even non-SAS personnel in the Army were openly talking about it on base. We know from the 4 Corners helmet cam footage that there was a liar or a cover up involved in the investigation of that murder. There should be prosecutions up to the head of the SAS and higher if it's proven they knew what was occurring and for allowing a kill culture to fester.

But the ultimate crimes were committed by the soldiers pulling the triggers, and their direct Patrol Commanders (like BRS) who gave them the direct orders to kill unarmed prisoners at the scene. They're the ones who should be staring at life imprisonment.

What a comedown for BRS. Son of a State Supreme Court Judge, educated at an elite private school, VC recipient, portrayed as Australia's "greatest soldier", Channel 7 General Manager, probably had a big media career ahead of him, it was even rumored the Liberal Party spoke to him about entering politics.

Now he'll probably be spending the remainder of his most productive years locked in a cell in protective custody (I can imagine how much of a target he'll be in prison) contemplating his crimes.

 

[Power Raid]

Are BRS and co "just plebs"?

They aren't dumbass 18 year old first year soldiers. They're special forces who are meant to know what the hell they are doing. SAS NCO's are given a lot of operational authority.

At the time of the killings BRS had been in the Army 16 years. In the SAS 9 years. He was a patrol commander. Had extensive Afghan experience.

Not killing unarmed prisoners is the sh*t you learn on first week of basic training. There's no excuse for a near decade long SAS patrol commander to not know that stuff.

I can see how higher ups should have known and acted. It was clear from the operators who spoke out on 4 Corners and 60 Minutes that the knowledge of the killings was widespread, to the point even non-SAS personnel in the Army were openly talking about it on base. We know from the 4 Corners helmet cam footage that there was a liar or a cover up involved in the investigation of that murder. There should be prosecutions up to the head of the SAS and higher if it's proven they knew what was occurring and for allowing a kill culture to fester.

But the ultimate crimes were committed by the soldiers pulling the triggers, and their direct Patrol Commanders (like BRS) who gave them the direct orders to kill unarmed prisoners at the scene. They're the ones who should be staring at life imprisonment.

What a comedown for BRS. Son of a State Supreme Court Judge, educated at an elite private school, VC recipient, portrayed as Australia's "greatest soldier", Channel 7 General Manager, probably had a big media career ahead of him, it was even rumored the Liberal Party spoke to him about entering politics.

Now he'll probably be spending the remainder of his most productive years locked in a cell in protective custody (I can imagine how much of a target he'll be in prison) contemplating his crimes.

he was a corporal which not only makes him a pleb but a very slow mover up the ranks. you'd be laughed at being a three striped kelic in the puss......let alone 3 stripes plus 4 years.


further we have criminal convictions in the civy world for criminal negligence and this should apply to government organisations including the military. Otherwise we are accepting this behaviour.


Lastly the VC awards highlight Managemnt had no idea, let alone controls, as to what was happening on the frontline.



FYI I served 12 years, 7 full time and 5 resevres whilst the ADF supported my second degree

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Are BRS and co "just plebs"?

They aren't dumbass 18 year old first year soldiers. They're special forces who are meant to know what the hell they are doing. SAS NCO's are given a lot of operational authority.

At the time of the killings BRS had been in the Army 16 years. In the SAS 9 years. He was a patrol commander. Had extensive Afghan experience.

Not killing unarmed prisoners is the sh*t you learn on first week of basic training. There's no excuse for a near decade long SAS patrol commander to not know that stuff.

I can see how higher ups should have known and acted. It was clear from the operators who spoke out on 4 Corners and 60 Minutes that the knowledge of the killings was widespread, to the point even non-SAS personnel in the Army were openly talking about it on base. We know from the 4 Corners helmet cam footage that there was a liar or a cover up involved in the investigation of that murder. There should be prosecutions up to the head of the SAS and higher if it's proven they knew what was occurring and for allowing a kill culture to fester.

But the ultimate crimes were committed by the soldiers pulling the triggers, and their direct Patrol Commanders (like BRS) who gave them the direct orders to kill unarmed prisoners at the scene. They're the ones who should be staring at life imprisonment.

What a comedown for BRS. Son of a State Supreme Court Judge, educated at an elite private school, VC recipient, portrayed as Australia's "greatest soldier", Channel 7 General Manager, probably had a big media career ahead of him, it was even rumored the Liberal Party spoke to him about entering politics.

Now he'll probably be spending the remainder of his most productive years locked in a cell in protective custody (I can imagine how much of a target he'll be in prison) contemplating his crimes.

Brilliant post.

 

[campbell]

Goodness.

No wonder people are not wanting to join our forces.

This is a very very dangerous move.
This should remain a military issue, not to be played out in front of covilian Australian and the media.
Decisions made by non Military.

At this rate we will have no forces........

I do wonder at the timing of this by Sco mo, it gets the sexist bullying of the Libs off the front page.

 

[Power Raid]

Goodness.

No wonder people are not wanting to join our forces.

This is a very very dangerous move.
This should remain a military issue, not to be played out in front of covilian Australian and the media.
Decisions made by non Military.

At this rate we will have no forces........

I do wonder at the timing of this by Sco mo, it gets the sexist bullying of the Libs off the front page.

I hear you but there is plenty of scope in the military to be effective without resorting to murder.

Instructions on navy vessels with pirates was:
- ignore the geneva convention and the rules of engagement. The rules of engagement are "yell stop or I will shoot three times, fire three warning shots above their heads before engaging in lethal force".
- Given the pirates have rocket launches, high speed boats and automatic weapons, the command was........
- If a pirate sets foot on the ship, you have failed! Open fire when they are immediately below the ship and keep firing until the vessel sinks. If a pirate steps foot on the vessel, shoot him and keep shooting until the body goes over the side. Dead witnesses make bad witnesses!

Although a complete breach, it is completely reasonable to engage in lethal force equal and opposite to the threat.

This is completely different to shooting civilians, prisoners of war and unarmed combatants.


Asking soldiers to use their brains, demanding management to build a quality culture and holding the department heads and politicians to account is a must. If we only pursue the plebs on the ground, nothing will change.

 

[Power Raid]

Brilliant post.

so you feel we should only pursue the plebs and not hold management to account?

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

so you feel we should only pursue the plebs and not hold management to account?

No, not at all.

But the "plebs" cannot simply hide behind their superiors either.

 

[campbell]

Can I ask if anyone here critizing the militaryhave ever been innsaid military, have ever served overseas to protect us?

The Military has its processess and protocols.

Basically it appears some are saying, hey, us civilians can oversee and judge, and we are correct in what we do.

Slippery slope.

Our enemies are loving this, watching us decline in inner strength.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Can I ask if anyone here critizing the militaryhave ever been innsaid military, have ever served overseas to protect us?

The Military has its processess and protocols.

Basically it appears some are saying, hey, us civilians can oversee and judge, and we are correct in what we do.

Slippery slope.

Our enemies are loving this, watching us decline in inner strength.

 

[Boston tiger]

Are BRS and co "just plebs"?

They aren't dumbass 18 year old first year soldiers. They're special forces who are meant to know what the hell they are doing. SAS NCO's are given a lot of operational authority.

At the time of the killings BRS had been in the Army 16 years. In the SAS 9 years. He was a patrol commander. Had extensive Afghan experience.

Not killing unarmed prisoners is the sh*t you learn on first week of basic training. There's no excuse for a near decade long SAS patrol commander to not know that stuff.

I can see how higher ups should have known and acted. It was clear from the operators who spoke out on 4 Corners and 60 Minutes that the knowledge of the killings was widespread, to the point even non-SAS personnel in the Army were openly talking about it on base. We know from the 4 Corners helmet cam footage that there was a liar or a cover up involved in the investigation of that murder. There should be prosecutions up to the head of the SAS and higher if it's proven they knew what was occurring and for allowing a kill culture to fester.

But the ultimate crimes were committed by the soldiers pulling the triggers, and their direct Patrol Commanders (like BRS) who gave them the direct orders to kill unarmed prisoners at the scene. They're the ones who should be staring at life imprisonment.

What a comedown for BRS. Son of a State Supreme Court Judge, educated at an elite private school, VC recipient, portrayed as Australia's "greatest soldier", Channel 7 General Manager, probably had a big media career ahead of him, it was even rumored the Liberal Party spoke to him about entering politics.

Now he'll probably be spending the remainder of his most productive years locked in a cell in protective custody (I can imagine how much of a target he'll be in prison) contemplating his crimes.

Good luck trying to bash him the showers. He’s would be on a whole different level of badass.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Can I ask if anyone here critizing the militaryhave ever been innsaid military, have ever served overseas to protect us?

The Military has its processess and protocols.

Basically it appears some are saying, hey, us civilians can oversee and judge, and we are correct in what we do.

Slippery slope.

Our enemies are loving this, watching us decline in inner strength.

there is a reason the military ultimately answer to civilians. its too easy to justify any monstrosity under "its war" or "we have to support the troops"

most soldiers are extraordinary people, but that doesnt give a pass to those who are complete campaigners. the deification of the adf in this country isnt healthy

 

[campbell]

there is a reason the military ultimately answer to civilians. its too easy to justify any monstrosity under "its war" or "we have to support the troops"

most soldiers are extraordinary people, but that doesnt give a pass to those who are complete campaigners. the deification of the adf in this country isnt healthy

I think there has been a powerfulmedia, tall poppy campaign against some in the military though.

As they say in most profession, those who cant do, teach.

In this instance, I do worry that, say , if it was a chinese army person or japanese in the same conversation.
They would do.

If, you have all this self reflection, etc, after the fact stuff, you undermine the mikitary process.

Why does this need to be spoken about or investigated away from the military?

Do we not trust the military?

 

[campbell]

I can........Can you.?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

he was a corporal which not only makes him a pleb but a very slow mover up the ranks. you'd be laughed at being a three striped kelic in the puss......let alone 3 stripes plus 4 years.


further we have criminal convictions in the civy world for criminal negligence and this should apply to government organisations including the military. Otherwise we are accepting this behaviour.


Lastly the VC awards highlight Managemnt had no idea, let alone controls, as to what was happening on the frontline.



FYI I served 12 years, 7 full time and 5 resevres whilst the ADF supported my second degree

So 7 years because Reserves is just play time

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I think there has been a powerfulmedia, tall poppy campaign against some in the military though.

As they say in most profession, those who cant do, teach.

In this instance, I do worry that, say , if it was a chinese army person or japanese in the same conversation.
They would do.

If, you have all this self reflection, etc, after the fact stuff, you undermine the mikitary process.

Why does this need to be spoken about or investigated away from the military?

Do we not trust the military?

we are not a military dictatorship

you dont get a pass to do whatever you want just because you wear a uniform

and as for china and japan. in china you would be quietly executed to avoid embarrassment. if japan you would be made to publicly apologise for your failure, and you would plead guilty accepting sanction

in australia you go on ACA

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Can I ask if anyone here critizing the militaryhave ever been innsaid military, have ever served overseas to protect us?

The Military has its processess and protocols.

Basically it appears some are saying, hey, us civilians can oversee and judge, and we are correct in what we do.

Slippery slope.

Our enemies are loving this, watching us decline in inner strength.

The Military is overseen by Civilians, it is intended to be that way