West Sydney (draft?)

[Burnsy]

I have read in a few articles about Gold Coast getting favourable draft picks in their first few years,making it important for the Crows to draft smartly.My ? is what happens when West Sydney come in do they get favourable draft picks to.Not real fair for other teams in AFL being restricted in drafts for about 4-6 years.If im misinformed please excuse me.

 

[jo172]

I have read in a few articles about Gold Coast getting favourable draft picks in their first few years,making it important for the Crows to draft smartly.My ? is what happens when West Sydney come in do they get favourable draft picks to.Not real fair for other teams in AFL being restricted in drafts for about 4-6 years.If im misinformed please excuse me.

North Pines

And they haven't stated the rules for which West Sydney will come in, but you'd assume they'd be as lenient if not more so than the Gold Coast's.

So yeah, you're pretty right, everyone gets ****ed over for a good 5 years or so.

Lucky we've got a decent batch of 18/19/20 year olds!

 

[Vader]

There has been absolutely NOTHING announced about concessions to WS. Nothing in the way of zone picks like GC have had on QLD and NT kids. Nothing on draft concessions. Right now they don't even have a ground to play on with the NSW Govt pulling the plug on the $100M they were going to spend on the Showgrounds.

The odds on WS ever getting up are growing longer by the day. If I were a betting man, my money would be on Tasmania being the 18th team in 2015.

 

[Vader]

As it stands, assuming they come enter the competition on schedule and get the same draft concessions as GC, then the draft will have been compromised for 3 consecutive years:
2009 - minimum age lifted, eliminating 1/3 of the draft class
2010 - GC take 9 players in the first round
2011 - WS take 9 players in the first round

Beyond that, the draft should return to normal - albeit with 18 selections per round instead of 16 as at present.

However, that's one mother of an assumption we're starting with. My guess is that normal service will resume in 2011, lasting until the Tasmaniacs get their collective acts together.

 

[Cap]

I really feel sorry for Tasmania

they really deserve a team, I just doubt they ever will

 

[jo172]

I should have said this
My ? is what happens if West Sydney come in
not
My ? is what happens when West Sydney come in

Using the word question would have also helped

 

[Crow-mo]

The odds on WS ever getting up are growing longer by the day. If I were a betting man, my money would be on Tasmania being the 18th team in 2015.

I certainly would not take that bet.

I think you're right.

 

[WALL-e]

They want them in in 2011, but with the NSW govt not wanting any part of it it could be difficult in the current financial climate.

The AFL will hopefully be forced to goto a place with a major sponser and FULL govt cooperation....TASSIE!!!

But alas Demetriou and his band of brothers want another NSW team so no dice.

They'll get similar draft picks and most likely similar zoning picks which could mean the end of the NSW scholarship program.

 

[macca23]

I heard Geoff Carr, CEO of the ARL, talking on 5AA tonight and he made the point that if the AFL go into Sydney West that it will be the AFL's "Vietnam".

Obviously by that he means it will be a costly unwinnable war.

I think that he's right.

He pointed out that the threat to rugby in Sydney was not Aussie rules, but soccer, with equal numbers of youngsters playing rugby and soccer and very few playing Aussie Rules.

However, don't think for one moment that Dimwitriou and his B grade lawyer off-sider "Post-it notes" Anderson will ever realize it. The one positive is that I can't see the clubs endorsing the Sydney West push as they did the Gold coast.

If only those begging blockheads North Melbourne had re-located to the Gold Coast when the opportunity was there, we wouldn't be going through all this draft selection deprivation as from 2010 with the threat of more to come.

 

[Cap]

I'm not convinced they are wrong.

RL would love to think Soccer is there only proble, in reality RL has a lot more problems that just Soccer

 

[macca23]

I'm not convinced they are wrong.

RL would love to think Soccer is there only proble, in reality RL has a lot more problems that just Soccer

Image problems, finances etc yes. But not people who are interested in the sport.

Carr quoted the number of participants in Aussie Rules compared to rugby and it is a drop in the ocean by comparison.

If the AFL start pouring money into Sydney West it will be a financial black hole without a bottom, to the detriment of the sport as a whole.

 

[Cap]

Image problems, finances etc yes. But not people who are interested in the sport.

Carr quoted the number of participants in Aussie Rules compared to rugby and it is a drop in the ocean by comparison.

If the AFL start pouring money into Sydney West it will be a financial black hole without a bottom, to the detriment of the sport as a whole.

Why would you be listening to Carr?

I'd say Carr has some figures, AFL has some others and the truth is somewhere in between.

the key to te survival of the AFL is embracing new supporters. The WS team will lose money for 10 years but in the end it will have more supporters than Port Power and the other small AFL clubs mainly due to the amount of people in the area.

 

[macca23]

Why would you be listening to Carr?

I'd say Carr has some figures, AFL has some others and the truth is somewhere in between.

the key to te survival of the AFL is embracing new supporters. The WS team will lose money for 10 years but in the end it will have more supporters than Port Power and the other small AFL clubs mainly due to the amount of people in the area.

Tell that to Port Adelaide and North Melbourne who can't attract supporters in football strongholds.

Sydney already have almost all the interest there is in AFL in Sydney. Another new Aussie Rules football club in Sydney will think that Port Adelaide and North Melbourne have got it easy IMO.

Money down the drain IMO.

 

[Crow-mo]

Carr quoted the number of participants in Aussie Rules compared to rugby and it is a drop in the ocean by comparison.

how good a metric is it though?

aussie rules has always been followed by a lot more people than who played it.

I am sure I read years ago that Netball was far and away the most participated in sport (boys & girls) - and that Aussie rules and cricket were both a long way down the list.

Carr has a vested interest in both encouraging that belief, and also talking himself into believing it too.

 

[Crow-mo]

Tell that to Port Adelaide and North Melbourne who can't attract supporters in football strongholds.

is that the problem though, that support is already divided out?

how do you get new supporters when they are either already supporting a team, or the children of parents who do.

far easier to get new supporters in a greenfield imo.

I still prefer tassie, but I think its the other way round regarding new supporters. Port & North can't get new supporters *because* they are in football strongholds.

 

[Cap]

Tell that to Port Adelaide and North Melbourne who can't attract supporters in football strongholds.

Sydney already have almost all the interest there is in AFL in Sydney. Another new Aussie Rules football club in Sydney will think that Port Adelaide and North Melbourne have got it easy IMO.

Money down the drain IMO.

I think North and Port are two different animals

Port failed due to poor management, the team did its thing, the supporters di their thing but management didn't. North are failing due to a small market share which is difficult to grow in a close to full market.

 

[macca23]

is that the problem though, that support is already divided out?

how do you get new supporters when they are either already supporting a team, or the children of parents who do.

far easier to get new supporters in a greenfield imo.

I still prefer tassie, but I think its the other way round regarding new supporters. Port & North can't get new supporters *because* they are in football strongholds.

Look, you're right in what you say about greenfields etc. My one concern is that to some extent Sydney isn't greenfields - it's more like a fortress.

The AFL have been trying to grow the game in Sydney for a long time now with little success and mega millions spent.

 

[Cap]

Look, you're right in what you say about greenfields etc. My one concern is that to some extent Sydney isn't greenfields - it's more like a fortress.

The AFL have been trying to grow the game in Sydney for a long time now with little success and mega millions spent.

Sydney has done alright.

from what I have heard there are many supporters who justdon't follow the swans

 

[Riggy1]

I really feel sorry for Tasmania

they really deserve a team, I just doubt they ever will

Why do people want Tassie so much

What does it offer that West Sydney dosnt.

 

[Riggy1]

Look, you're right in what you say about greenfields etc. My one concern is that to some extent Sydney isn't greenfields - it's more like a fortress.

The AFL have been trying to grow the game in Sydney for a long time now with little success and mega millions spent.

In Sydney support has came at one time than it flatlines.

I started playing in 1999 (u9s) It was almost nothing before then (2 teams west of Parramatta)

By 2000 The West had it's own league with the influx of kids comming through after the Swans performed well from 96-98.

From then onwards the Sydney junior leagues were pretty stagnant. But going up slowly. I remember when in u14s I saw something showing participation in my club. It started with 3 teams when I arrivied in u11s. And even with the club being shit (1 grand final overall) over the next 4 years. It gained about 15-25 extra players each year. With not many leaving, finishing with 5 teams when I left (looking for a premriship ) after the 2004 season.

But after I moved up to the senior leagues (2007) Junior footy in Sydney exploded, with alot of children in love with the game after Sydney went through another boom with back to back grand final appearences in 05-06.

But over that time Sydney was always going average to good.

The worry is that if they have 3+ season of patheticness, interest in Sydney would drop. And less people would sign up.

The AFL should try and grow the game in the south/south-west Sydney. There will be a drop on ex-pats who are with the Army working at Campbelltown so they need to replace those people when they leave when they get posted to the army base being thrown on the back of Edinbrough RAAF base.

 

[NTRabbit]

Sydney has done alright.

from what I have heard there are many supporters who justdon't follow the swans

I've seen it said that the Swans are the Demons or Blues of Sydney, the AFL fans who don't support them waiting on a Collingwood or Footscray they can barrack for.

 

[twentydollarnote]

Cappy is on the money about RL being scared, if they werent why would this guy even bother commenting and giving interviews on it?

 

[StillCrowing]

I'm from Adelaide and moved to Sydney in February '07. As an AFL fan in Sydney you're really starved of the sport.

Friday night footy doesn't appear on Channel 7 until 11:30pm. Channel Ten has been pretty woeful as well. Any Saturday night games usually don't go to air until after 10pm and end up just being an extended highlights package. Sunday there is usually one other game on Seven but this is often subject to what other programming they have on (remember the uproar caused when Seven dared show an AFL match in Sydney instead of constant replays during the Olympics?). So my point here is how do you get the kids involved in AFL if it's not on TV? As far as the people of Sydney are concerned, there's the Swans, Barry Hall, Adam Goodes and that is pretty much the standard knowledge of the game. Another team in Sydney means twice the exposure on TV.

I can also understand that people think Sydney is a dead market. The Swans are renowned for their fair weather supporters. I know a lot of Swans fans over here in Sydney. None of them have season tickets. I think half of the problem is the Swans supporters are generally quite timid.

West Sydney is a great location. They already have a nice big stadium. It shouldn't take too long to convert over the locals. Not only will it help the West though. I expect a rivalry to develop quite quickly with the Swans which can only be beneficial to both teams. It's easy to be in a one team town, but a local derby adds that little extra bit of spice, not to mention finishing above your cross town rivals on the ladder for bragging rights.

Best of all though, it means there will be TWO chances to see the Crows in Sydney every year!

 

[Vader]

I should have said this
My ? is what happens if West Sydney come in
not
My ? is what happens when West Sydney come in

IF they were to come in, then they would expect similar concessions to those granted to GC. However, they are a long way behind where GC were 12 months ago.

12 months ago it had been announced that GC would have a TAC Cup team in 2009, VFL team in 2010 and an AFL team in 2011. They were on the verge of signing Guy McKenna as coach and were just waiting (and waiting and waiting..) for the AFL to formally hand them a license.

WS remains nothing more than a concept at this stage.

The figures quoted by Carr from the ARL are something like 3,200 registered players in Western Sydney - though the AFL were quick to respond that they have 30,000 kids registered to play Auskick through the schools program.

Carr is absolutely correct that the AFL are downright stupid to be considering this move. There isn't the interest in, let alone demand for, a club based in Western Sydney. It's solid RL/Soccer territory. I'm sure Carr has a vested interest in not having to compete against yet another football team in what is already Australia's most congested market, but that doesn't make his points any less valid.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I heard Geoff Carr, CEO of the ARL, talking on 5AA tonight and he made the point that if the AFL go into Sydney West that it will be the AFL's "Vietnam".

Obviously by that he means it will be a costly unwinnable war.

I think that he's right.

He pointed out that the threat to rugby in Sydney was not Aussie rules, but soccer, with equal numbers of youngsters playing rugby and soccer and very few playing Aussie Rules.

However, don't think for one moment that Dimwitriou and his B grade lawyer off-sider "Post-it notes" Anderson will ever realize it. The one positive is that I can't see the clubs endorsing the Sydney West push as they did the Gold coast.

If only those begging blockheads North Melbourne had re-located to the Gold Coast when the opportunity was there, we wouldn't be going through all this draft selection deprivation as from 2010 with the threat of more to come.

Living in Sydney I dont agree with Geoff Carr

Yes the Sydney market is a tough market with four football codes, however numbers alone at the Junior levels does not necessary mean the code will be successful at a National Level. Example back in the NSL days soccer still had the highest junior numbers however the code was poorly run and many junior soccer players ended up laying other sports

Back to the NRL

Yes they have strong numbers playing junior footy however the NRL is facing massive challenges to keep the game strong and growing, some of the issues include
- 11 based NRL clubs in Sydneyhe majority of these clubs are in financial trouble
- there is no visible Business plan on where the NRL game is heading
- the business model is out dated and clubs rely's on League clubs for finance, this has now been impacted by the Pokie tax legislation
- Membership and Crowds are below par for a national sports
- The governing body and clubs are run by ex footballers will little or no business experience
- TV and Radio rights were poorly negotiated
- NRL players are in the news weekly for incidents like sexual assualt, glassing a girlfriend, assualt etc, there is definitely a binge drinking culture in the NRL
- At junior level parents are calling for a weight for age concept which will stop big islander lads smashing smaller kids at the same age
- NRL schools and Country promotions is poor and under resourced, AusKick is now in the majority of scools and Kids and Parents are seeing the vast differences between the AFL and NRL efforts

I believe the NRL is sitting on its hands and banking on the fact that the junior numbers provides them security. However the issues above indicate how poorly the gamne is run and I would encourage the AFL to continue it's push into West Syd.

Yes it will take resources and finance and it will make a loss initially, however West Syd id the fastest growing region in Australia and while our game is strong and has a strong balance sheet I would rather take some risk them play safe and take no risk at all.