West Sydney (draft?)

[Crow-mo]

Look, you're right in what you say about greenfields etc. My one concern is that to some extent Sydney isn't greenfields - it's more like a fortress.

The AFL have been trying to grow the game in Sydney for a long time now with little success and mega millions spent.

Look I don't think we're really too far apart in our thinking, I am not sure about west sydney and prefer tassie.

however, I just don't agree that Port and North are evidence against the expansion i.e. heartland clubs that can't grow their support, so what hope in new territory. I think Port and North's problem is *because* they are in footy heartland. there is no more real estate to divvy up, which means they can at best, leach support from elsewhere - which is never going to happen in any number or quantity.

squillions will be blown in west sydney I reckon, but at least it has the promise of one day working. nothing attracts interest like novelty and success - and you stuff draft picks down the throat of a new club like a fatted foie gras goose, then success will come.

entrenching it, and making it sustainable much harder.

 

[KUNG FU]

As a teacher of politics and (self-appointed) observer of football, the comparison between the WS18 & Vietnam is not only inaccurate and bizarre, but just plain offensive (both to the those involved in the Indochina conflict and the AFL). I don't know how you could give it any credit considering it came from an RL boss.

Western Sydney is all about TV rights. It doesn't matter if only a few WSers get to the game, the media revenue created by having the extra team in Sydney, plus an extra AFL game a week, will be enough to prop them up short term and long term expand the appeal of the game to a niche share of a huge market.

 

[KUNG FU]

Oh and saying Tasmania "deserve" a team is like saying Ballarat deserve a team. It will struggle to stay afloat in the long term and does nothing to expand the reach of the game. In any case we might as well talk about Darwin's 120k~ population getting a team. More than Launceston.

 

[StillCrowing]

Oh and saying Tasmania "deserve" a team is like saying Ballarat deserve a team. It will struggle to stay afloat in the long term and does nothing to expand the reach of the game. In any case we might as well talk about Darwin's 120k~ population getting a team. More than Launceston.

I definitely agree with this sentiment. The whole point of a West Sydney team is to open up a new market that has a lot of potential. If the AFL can take a strangle hold in NSW and QLD then it bumps up the TV ratings. More ratings means more dollars. Then you can afford to have a team in Tassie without a ton of pressure on them to get big crowds to every game.

 

[Cap]

Why do people want Tassie so much

What does it offer that West Sydney dosnt.

such a strong AFL market that is shunned and doesn't get its own team.

It would be a bit like there being no SANFL team in Elizabeth but North Adelaide play the odd game there.

Which makes me wonder..... Adelaide Hills team time?

 

[WALL-e]

such a strong AFL market that is shunned and doesn't get its own team.

It would be a bit like there being no SANFL team in Elizabeth but North Adelaide play the odd game there.

Which makes me wonder..... Adelaide Hills team time?

Bloody oath.

Hills for me.

 

[Mismatched]

such a strong AFL market that is shunned and doesn't get its own team.

It would be a bit like there being no SANFL team in Elizabeth but North Adelaide play the odd game there.

Which makes me wonder..... Adelaide Hills team time?

Definitely an interesting one, just wonder whether there'd be enough interest in it though, especially with the local comp being so strong and with many of the teams having such a strong, loyal following. Having said that, Mt. Barker is apparently the fastest growing area in South Australia, so there may be an opportunity to place one out there sometime into the future.

 

[King Elvis]

The odds on WS ever getting up are growing longer by the day. If I were a betting man, my money would be on Tasmania being the 18th team in 2015.

I bloody hope so mate.

You've got a State who doesn't care about AFL (which is fine and fair enough) getting another AFL team because they have a massive POTENTIAL market, where as a State which loves AFL and wants and deserves a team, is getting screwed and ignored because they don't have a big enough potential market.

A Tassie Team would be a hell of a lot better supported than another Sydney Team - it doesn't matter if Sydney has a massive population if none of them like AFL.

 

[Vader]

I bloody hope so mate.

You've got a State who doesn't care about AFL (which is fine and fair enough) getting another AFL team because they have a massive POTENTIAL market, where as a State which loves AFL and wants and deserves a team, is getting screwed and ignored because they don't have a big enough potential market.

A Tassie Team would be a hell of a lot better supported than another Sydney Team - it doesn't matter if Sydney has a massive population if none of them like AFL.

The thing is, they don't have a massive potential market at all. Their potential market is miniscule - they'll be lucky to get 10k to a game and 8k of those will be opposition supporters.

What WS offers is a truly national TV deal, with a game in Sydney every week and two "home team" games to be beamed live into the NSW market each week. Were it not for the TV factor, this idiotic concept would never have been conceived.

I really hope that the Tassie team gets up, but I don't honestly think it will be viable. Actually, I don't think an 18 team comp is viable - 16 is borderline and the Vic market is definitely unviable already with too many teams for the population base.

 

[Ask Sandy]

I really hope that the Tassie team gets up, but I don't honestly think it will be viable. Actually, I don't think an 18 team comp is viable - 16 is borderline and the Vic market is definitely unviable already with too many teams for the population base.

It's only a matter of time before a Victorian based club disappears, agree or disagree and how many 1 or 2 clubs do people think and which clubs?

The AFL are also looking at rules for free agency? I wonder how much this would be an advantage or disadvantage for us?

 

[KUNG FU]

The thing is, they don't have a massive potential market at all. Their potential market is miniscule - they'll be lucky to get 10k to a game and 8k of those will be opposition supporters.

What WS offers is a truly national TV deal, with a game in Sydney every week and two "home team" games to be beamed live into the NSW market each week. Were it not for the TV factor, this idiotic concept would never have been conceived.

I really hope that the Tassie team gets up, but I don't honestly think it will be viable. Actually, I don't think an 18 team comp is viable - 16 is borderline and the Vic market is definitely unviable already with too many teams for the population base.

For me that's like saying "We wouldn't have won the 97 GF if Shane Ellen didn't play FF". Why do you make it sound as though the TV factor is a bad thing? Maybe a bit unconventional and ugly, but it got the job done. WS will be a different team to start with, and have the nasty franchise smell that 'traditional supporters' finds so repugnant in the post-Fremantle formation world. They won't have heaps of people at their games, sure. They will initially be propped up by the AFL. But the AFL will in turn be propped up by huge increase in TV revenue. The number of people who watch Swans games in NSW is significant. If you roughly double that exposure, the AFL (as a whole league, rather than just a weekly Swans game) will suddenly be a lot more prevalent in NSW. Doesn't need everyone to change, just need to cut in a niche market formed from new converts, avid sports fans, interstaters and most importantly the thousands of Auskick kids.

That's what so unbelievably misconceived about the whole "Vietnam War" analogy". Its not war. Its the AFL just expanding a business, building around a niche in a much bigger pond that we have no interest in taking over aggresively. We mostly go about our own business and not really care what the other guys are doing.

 

[Mego Red]

Tell that to Port Adelaide and North Melbourne who can't attract supporters in football strongholds.

Sydney already have almost all the interest there is in AFL in Sydney. Another new Aussie Rules football club in Sydney will think that Port Adelaide and North Melbourne have got it easy IMO.

Money down the drain IMO.

Not sure I agree. There are potentially a lot of fans up for grabs in NSW, and a rivalry would only increase AFL interest in the state.

It's not a fair comparison looking at Port and NM - there aren't many supporters up for grabs in SA for Port to acquire in a state a quarter the size of NSW, and NM is the smallest business in an overcrowded footy market of Victoria.

 

[crowsup]

For me that's like saying "We wouldn't have won the 97 GF if Shane Ellen didn't play FF". Why do you make it sound as though the TV factor is a bad thing? Maybe a bit unconventional and ugly, but it got the job done. WS will be a different team to start with, and have the nasty franchise smell that 'traditional supporters' finds so repugnant in the post-Fremantle formation world. They won't have heaps of people at their games, sure. They will initially be propped up by the AFL. But the AFL will in turn be propped up by huge increase in TV revenue. The number of people who watch Swans games in NSW is significant. If you roughly double that exposure, the AFL (as a whole league, rather than just a weekly Swans game) will suddenly be a lot more prevalent in NSW. Doesn't need everyone to change, just need to cut in a niche market formed from new converts, avid sports fans, interstaters and most importantly the thousands of Auskick kids.

That's what so unbelievably misconceived about the whole "Vietnam War" analogy". Its not war. Its the AFL just expanding a business, building around a niche in a much bigger pond that we have no interest in taking over aggresively. We mostly go about our own business and not really care what the other guys are doing.

I too think there's nothing wrong in thinking that the tv rights will make the WS team viable. Having live tv coverage will attract more people to the game.
As a comparison, look at how many more people follow ckicket now that it is televised or,even better, how much more talked about were the 36rs when their games were televised live.
I really believe that television will bring people to the gates.
I judge this from my own experience. Being of European extraction, I never followed AFL until the Crows' birth. I started to watch footy because I'm a South Australian and wanted to see us beat the Vics.
Well, I lasted four or five years before I couldn't stand not seeing them live and I'm now a member.
With WS being a new team and not an imported Victorian team, I would not be surprised if within a few years, WS will be more popular (at leas in NSW) than EX South Melbourne.