If I was wrong, we would not have won the premiership....
Well that's up for debate isn't it.
44 points wouldn't have mattered (see 1970), we need it to be October to win it.
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What-ifs in Finals and Grand Finals
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Well that's up for debate isn't it.
44 points wouldn't have mattered (see 1970), we need it to be October to win it.
st_trav_ofWA
Norm Smith Medallist
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for me looking at the lead up to the 97 grand final anything that could have gone wrong did for the saints ... Winmar dealing with personal issues, Loewe with the weight of the world on his shoulders, losing both ruckmen... make no mistake if Lazar was playing he would have been the differance ... not by any level of skill or play but he would have made a beeline for Jarman when he started to get off the leash ... he would have copped the biggest suspension in history but St Kilda would have the flag....
as for 2010 with it being so close the tinyest details make the biggest differance .. Leon Davis does two parts of SFA all game and was well on his way to becoming the reason the Pie lose another g/f then out of nowhere he bobs up for one second of decent footy and its a draw...
for the Tigers flag against the Crows i think the pivotal point was late in the first Betts being clearly held without the ball gets no free kick costing a certain goal.. at that point betts kicks the goal the crows grow more momentum and the tigers lose a bit of faith.. the free kick is missed and the crows then go for what seems like an eternity without a goal and Richmond skip their way to a flag ...
as for 2010 with it being so close the tinyest details make the biggest differance .. Leon Davis does two parts of SFA all game and was well on his way to becoming the reason the Pie lose another g/f then out of nowhere he bobs up for one second of decent footy and its a draw...
for the Tigers flag against the Crows i think the pivotal point was late in the first Betts being clearly held without the ball gets no free kick costing a certain goal.. at that point betts kicks the goal the crows grow more momentum and the tigers lose a bit of faith.. the free kick is missed and the crows then go for what seems like an eternity without a goal and Richmond skip their way to a flag ...
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1970 Grand Final flashbacks for the Pies during the main break if Cloke slotted the two goals.
Thegibbsgamble
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- #179
What if the AFL and wc didn't ignore cousins drug use in 06?
And on jarman, if he didn't go forward, it would of meant Modra wouldn't of been injured the week before. Footscray would of been smashed in the prelim and Modra would of carved St kilda up.
Thegibbsgamble
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- #180
Adelaide had 5 guns not play in the GF and 5 others who would of got a game, adelaide travelled, you didn't.
Pethetic excuses.
Just a minor point - the Betts hold happened 2 minutes before half-time, at which point Richmond had already kicked the last 4 goals in a row and the Crows hadn't kicked a goal for a quarter. Not saying it wasn't a free kick - I agree we got lucky with that one - but I think by that stage the die was cast.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Admittedly, that it more work to correct.
They drew the QF with WCE, so maybe we can work from there...
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What if Brian Dennehy and the other policemen didn't disrespect John Rambo at the start of "First Blood"
telsor
Hall of Famer
Butterfly effect. Carlton win the premiership that year too.
st_trav_ofWA
Norm Smith Medallist
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so the crows should have traveled they finished lower on the ladder and its a grand final it never belongs in the land of churches
st_trav_ofWA
Norm Smith Medallist
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sorry memory a bit fuzzy i thought it was in the first qtr ... my bad .. that said watching the game from that point the Crows had a sniff of the game , they were getting nothing for their effort and then that happens they just fell apart and the tigers did it in second gear
st_trav_ofWA
Norm Smith Medallist
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hows this for a what if ....
what if Grant Thomas didnt try and be too smart for his own good in the super draft and picked Judd with pick two... WCE would of most likely taken Polak with pick three and Freo would have gone with Sampi at 4 leaving Ball for pick 5 instead of Clarke .... St Kilda during the 2004 - 2007 period with Judd connecting with Gehrig would have been magic ...
what if Grant Thomas didnt try and be too smart for his own good in the super draft and picked Judd with pick two... WCE would of most likely taken Polak with pick three and Freo would have gone with Sampi at 4 leaving Ball for pick 5 instead of Clarke .... St Kilda during the 2004 - 2007 period with Judd connecting with Gehrig would have been magic ...
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West coast would of still chosen Sampi at pick 3 over Graham Polak. Eagles alreadly got a young KPP in Darren Glass 2 years prior.
Would Judd Been a difference maker for the saints in 2004 or 2005 prelims? Most likely if he was fuly fit
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You saints fans fascinate me. I love Ross Lyon. lol
But Looking at those 4 years....
2004: Had Saints make the 2004 grand final, I reckon Brisbanes experience would of made the difference. This was a Brisbane side that not only made 4 grand finals in a Row from 2001-4. Guys Like Akermanis, Voss, Darryl white etc played finals before 2001: An elim final in 1995, 3 finals in 1996, an elim final loss in 1997 ironicaly vs the saints, 3 finals in 1999 and 2 finals in 2000. So between 1995-2000, some brisbane players played 9 finals before that 2001 grand final.
2005: I still remember that final quarter in that swans vs saints prelim. Saints were up by 2 goals in the final quarter. Swans kick 7 goals to the saints 4 behinds. Swans won 15.6.96 to Saints 9.11.65. Saints vs Eagles grand final would of been insteresting. Eagles had the better mids. Saints had forwards in Gherig, Riewoldt and Milne to do the damage.
2009: People talk about the toe poke, I talk about the 9.14.68 the saints scored. Had they kicked 15.8.98 instead, saints would of won comfotable.
2010: Yep had the ball bounced the right way, Milne would not miss 5 metres out in a slight angle. Would of been a 5 point lead. Just saw the youtube clip of the last 4 minutes of that game. 1 minute and 34 seconds left and that ball bounced badly for milne.
so had it bounced right, Milne kicks the goal, Saints would of lead by 5 points with 90 seconds to go....
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That means Ross Lyon wouldnt be a saints or Freo coach lol
st_trav_ofWA
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Judds pace in the midfield changes the entire look of the saints in that period .... granted we most likley wouldnt have had Goddard and or Dal Santo who played big parts in that period of making finals but its a very differant style with Judd then we had with Ball and X Clarke in the stands injured...
Polaks older brother Troy (the one who got drafted to North) put my driveway in a few months back and we were talking bout that super draft and he reckons at the time they never expected Graham was heading to Freo he spoke to WCE, StK, North and Melbourne leading into the draft and was fairly certain he was going to be an Eagle as Freo showed all the signs Sampi was their target.. he reckons they all though Freo were off the Polaks after his stint at Freo so were surprised when they went with him even though by his own admission Graham was 10 times the player Troy was ..
st_trav_ofWA
Norm Smith Medallist
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even thats under selling it ... the saints had shot that didn't even score the behind.... Milne and Schnider the main culprits we were out playing Geelong and watching the game as a Saints fan we knew it was only a matter of time til Geelong came storming home , we saw it in the epic round 14 game where we had them only to have them come charging home in the last qtr each time we didnt put them to the sword with out woeful shots on goal or haphazard forward entrys to go nowhere us saints fans deep down were getting more and more concerned that it was going to cost us eventually ...
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Thats a shock to me out Graham Polak. I would of Assumed freo would of chatted to him before the draft.
You look back at the saints drafting in 2001:
Pick 2: Luke Ball
Pick 5 Xavier Clarke
Pick 13: Nic Dal Santo
Pick 21: Matt Maguire
Pick 37 Leigh Montagna (Sam Mitchell was pick 36)
Pick 49: Josh Houlihan.
To be Brutally honest. That wasnt a bad batch of players the saints pick up that year. Ball, Dal Santo, Maguire and Montagna all played 200 games each.
Crazy to think Dane Swan was pick 58 in that draft too.
Scary to think Saints could of Judd, Sam Mitchell and Dane swan in this draft.
As I said, bad kicking is bady footy. 9.14.68 shows it was a bad day for goal kicking. Saints lead 3.2.20 to 3.0.18 at Quarter time. Saints lead 7.7.49 to cats 7.1.43 at half time and still lead 9.11.65 to cats 9.4.58 at 3 quarter time.
Had the saints been up 12.6.78 to cats 9.4.58 at 3 quarter time instead, I reckon the saints psychological mind set would of been much positive. Because the mind set would of been kick the 1st goal in the 4th quarter and get that 4-5 goal lead and go from there.
Hence I am still gutted freo kicked 1.6.12 at half time in that 2013 grand final. Had it been 4.3.27 or 5.2.32 at half time, freos mindset would of been different. Saying that, Freo fought back in the 2nd half and fought to the bitter end. Funny thing that 2013 Grand final doesnt get replayed a lot. There isnt too many highlights.
the only highlights I can remember in freos 2013 Grand final was Tendai Mzungus goal in the 1st half, Walters goals in the 3rd quarter and Chris Mayne kicking a goal to bring freo with in 3 points.
2009 Grand final is remembered at it was exciting and close in the end.
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A tight tussle in the wet. Ditto for 2002. 2002 was also the first Grand Final to be decided by under 2 goals since the 1989 epic.
st_trav_ofWA
Norm Smith Medallist
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2001 was forgettable for Freo ... trading out of the super draft will go down in history as the great mistakes of the comp
gave away pick 1 - unforgivable move ....
they though they were being clever bringing in guys like Croad , Farmer & Simmons who they thought would make instant impacts .. their only saving grace is the plucked Mcpharlin with Croad of off set that cluster Fudge of a trade some what and totally nailed the pick of the rookie draft in Sandilands
but then after that going:
Pick 4 Polak
Pick 52 Andrew Browne
Pick 56 Medhurst
imagine Freo with
pick 1, Pick 4, Pick 17 (Heath Black trade), Pick 20 and pick 36 ... even allowing for a few blunders they could have build some fair team from that draft ..
Jesus Christ, it’s would have, not would of!
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even 2006 and 2018 was good in a neutral view despite the eagles winning it.
But I was comparing my teams close 2013 grand final loss compared to the other grand finals in the last 20 years. Most of the other close games had a highlight or a memorable moment or a moment that turned the game around or won the game.
for some reason I cant find a stand out moment for the 2013 grand final. but the other close grand final games I can pin point a memorable or definning moment.
2002: Akermanis Snap goal to seal it for Brisbane.
2005: Leo Barrys mark in the end.
2006: there is a couple. Daniel Chicks smother which reuslted to an eagles goal. Embleys mark in the eagles defensive 50. Dean cox raising his arms when the siren sounded in that 50 metre flank.
2009: The toe poke
2010: Milnes unlucky bounce and brendon goddards mark.
2012: Nick Malcheski snap goal to give the Swans a 10 point lead with 40 seconds to go.
2013: What would be the memorable highlight for the hawks beside the win? Brad Hills goal from the stoppage. Mine was Walters goals in the 3rd quarter.
2016: Tom Boyds massive goal from 50 metres out to get the dogs a 14 point lead 81-67.
2018: Dom sheeds match winning goal from a tight angle.
So in the last 20 years, there has been some thrashings in some grand finals, but some close ones too.
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freo were poorly run for the 1st 10 years.
Yeah we know freo traded picks 1, 20 and 36 for Tresnt croad and Luke McPharlin. Saying that Heath black was serviceable for both Freo and Saints.
We were a mess in 2001 with 8.1 million in debt.
Freos trading and drafting has been better since 2007.
Saying that, I would trade pick 1 if the situation was justifyable.
Come to think about it.... Trading pick 5 can be interesting too....
Pick 5 could get you a dustin martin or chris Judd or Dangerfield type mid or possibly a buddy franklin type forward.
Pick 5 has been traded in the last 2 years.
Your team had pick 5 and handed it to GWS for 2 middle 1st rounders.
Freo had pick 5 in 2018 and traded pick 5 and a future 3rd rounder to Port for picks 11, 23, 31 and 49.
Still have ptsd ! About 70 & 79 & 81
