What is required from here onwards to win the premiership?

[Down at K Park]

The two big finals we have lost over the last 2 years, we have NOT started slow, rather we have been up by 20 odd points at half time and been run over in the second half. This year, the team seems more able to implement a ''keepings off'' style when it really matters, to break a roll by the other team. When we have lost, they have not been able to stop multiple goals. So, not falling off in the second half, or when we are challenged, is more important I think. Also, in the past its poor kicking in the first half of finals, rather than a slow start, that has cost us. So, I say kick accurately for goal n the first half and apply the breaks if we need to in the second half are important improvements we need this year.

Scott admitted we tried to play safe in the 2nd half, and tried to protect the lead. He also said we should have kept doing what got us the lead in the first place. The last thing we want to do is apply the brakes when we are on top.

Hopefully they learnt from that.

 

[Shadow89]

For me, this is the 10 step blueprint moving forward:

1. Anyone who underperforms for more than one week and isn't showing full buy in, is dropped - given the ridiculous depth we'll have if we stay injury free.

2. Barring any drops in form, team stays as settled as possible and is allowed to 'gel' heading into the pointy end of the season.

3. Selwood is fit and firing, as people forget just how a good finals player/leader he is. Even if he rests for the next 3 weeks and Narkle gets his shot, I really don't care.

4. Hard decisions made if needed, to drop either Henderson or Kolo, if team we play is playing smaller. Works if opposing team is taller, too slow if Blics is back there too. Same goes for Bews/O'Connor (thinks Bews is ahead right now with some of his weapons). O'Connor not as necessary - unless we want to tag.

5. Even when Jez and Duncan return, accept that it's a utility or even a veteran like Higgins that needs to be dropped - if they haven't earned their spot. No 'fairytale' crap. Do what's best for the team. This means keeping all the other forwards we have and restructuring.

6. Accept that Sav is not ready for the Number 1 ruck role yet, and trial the 3 tall forwards and Stanley for at least a couple of weeks (Round 22 and 23 when Jez should be back). If it doesn't work, drop Sav - as he himself has said - if it's what is best for the team. Keep Stanley as Number 1 ruck, and back him in for the remainder of the season so our on ball unit remains settled too.

7. If Duncan is fit first week of finals, you play him. Even a half fit Duncan, is still such an exceptional kick of the ball and ridiculously skilled player, that he has to be included - especially if we drop Week 1 - as he will at least have had the week to dust the cobwebs off. No downside to playing him when he's ready IMO - especially with the med sub rule.

8. Be ruthless, and don't take any team lightly, no matter how far up we might be/how good we might think we're going.

9. Be 'on' from the first bounce, and don't allow teams to 'shell-shock' us, as they have in the past. This goes the same for after half time as well.

10 (and lastly), try and make this team work, as it provides stars on every line and offers a lot of points of difference to other teams. Sav, Cameron, Hawk and Rohan are all different players, so they can work together if their forward craft is good. All can rove a pack, all can take a strong mark and all are actually quite agile - with Sav, Cameron and Rohan being quick as well as agile too.

Hypothetical Week 1 Finals Team (unlucky players to possibly be Kolo, Higgins, O'Connor, Close, Narkle or Dahlhaus):

B: Bews, Blics, Henry
HB: Atkins, Hendo, Stewart
C: I. Smith, Selwood, Menegola
FO: Stanley, Danger, Guthrie
HF: Miers, Ratugolea, Cameron
F: Rohan, Hawkins, Close
INT: Duncan, Parfitt, Tuohy, Dahl

Medi Sub: S. Higgins

EMG: O'Connor, Kolo, Narkle, Holmes

************************

The above is our Best 27 heading into the pointy end, IMO. Reckon it's some variation of that, with injury, oppo and form playing a part in selection on the day.

 

[CATatonic10]

The two big finals we have lost over the last 2 years, we have NOT started slow, rather we have been up by 20 odd points at half time and been run over in the second half. This year, the team seems more able to implement a ''keepings off'' style when it really matters, to break a roll by the other team. When we have lost, they have not been able to stop multiple goals. So, not falling off in the second half, or when we are challenged, is more important I think. Also, in the past its poor kicking in the first half of finals, rather than a slow start, that has cost us. So, I say kick accurately for goal n the first half and apply the breaks if we need to in the second half are important improvements we need this year.

Spot on, the slow starts were hurting us, but the lack of scoreboard reward or pressure arguably cost us the two big finals against the tigs, need to make sure that doesn't happen again this year. Start well, take your chances, and pile on the pressure. Given how good are at "controlling" the game, and how good our match day coaching is, we'd arguably be the hardest opponent to peg back from a big early lead. I think that'll be key this year, good starts, runs of goals, and then controlled aggression thereafter. Think I've seen enough different gears from the team this season to be conformable they can handle it better than in years gone by...

 

[CATatonic10]

I think yesterday was finals aggression from the first bounce - and we were up for it, until we broke them in the second and never looked back. We seem more hardened this year, and have built into the season and got better every week. Feels a lot different to previous years

Agreed, something does feel different about this season, certainly in contrast to the last 2 anyway. Team just seems more settled, more gelled, and more confident in what they want to produce. There are more process/system driven goals compared to ones stemming from flashes of brilliance or lucky clearances, The pressure can be dialled up on a whim, and the all-ground defensive system is consistently elite. I also love how it's been a slow burn, like Richmond of recent years, in that we started off rather slow and build into the season. Our form has been on a steady rise since the Richmond encounter in round 8, whilst the Dee's for example find their best form edging slowly towards the abyss. This season seems to have a different feel to it, I don't know, it just feels right atm. Guess we'll find out in a few months time

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

I think yesterday was finals aggression from the first bounce - and we were up for it, until we broke them in the second and never looked back. We seem more hardened this year, and have built into the season and got better every week. Feels a lot different to previous years

Problem being though, that yesterday was still H&A against a side that has not really been in contention for most of this year. Look no further than our games against Melbourne & Brisbane to see examples of teams that have brought their A game, and our response has been underwhelming. And even then, they are still H&A games and not finals.

 

[Shadow89]

Problem being though, that yesterday was still H&A against a side that has not really been in contention for most of this year. Look no further than our games against Melbourne & Brisbane to see examples of teams that have brought their A game, and our response has been underwhelming. And even then, they are still H&A games and not finals.

Mmm, gotta respectfully disagree.

In both of those games, there are mitigating circumstances. The Melb game, we were severely depleted - especially in the forward line -, and our tweaks in our gamestyle weren't quite working that well yet. Round 23 against Melbourne will give us a much better indication of where we're at.

Brisbane was an outlier of an amazing 11 weeks. Put simply we looked absolutely gassed from the first bounce, and it showed as we got annihilated throughout the whole game. Most thought our 4 game stretch against Port, Dogs, Brissie and the Bombers, would net us 1 or 2 wins, given our post bye form on previous years and the strength of the oppo. To beat both Port, and the Dogs in two fiercely contested finals-like games, whilst travelling to 3 different states when it came to the Brissie game, was just a bridge too far. As much as it annoyed me on the night, I knew if it turned out to be an anomaly (as it has since then), then we'd be in good shape.

All teams have ebbs and flows, but we're peaking at the right time and we have very strong depth to cover any injuries too. We're in as good as a position as could be hoped, second only to the Dogs who we're equal with on points, who might not have that percentage had they faced the Same North as the comp is facing now (where they earned like 10+ percentage).

As always though, we'll see how it plays out once the real stuff rocks around, but our form, depth, Bottom 6 and our record against Top 8 sides means we're in probably the best position we've been since Danger arrived, to be the most dominant team in the comp and win it all.

 

[fpm84]

If we want to win the flag we have to play Stanley every week in the finals.

No experimenting with Ratugolea or Blicavs in the ruck.

Stanley is the best ruck on our list by far and has proven it over and over again this year (one bad game v Sydney two months ago notwithstanding).

Our structure with Stanley in the ruck, Hawkins, Cameron and/or Ratugolea down forward and Blicavs playing everywhere he is needed is clearly our best structure. It is the structure that can win us a flag in a few weeks if we hold firm.

 

[D BRIDGE]

I'll give credit to Ratugolea for a decent game yesterday.... But I'm certainly not sold on him being in the team when Cameron is back.
I just can't cop Ratugolea in the ruck at all, so he has to play as a perma key forward.
Him playing forward will mean that we will likely need to drop a small who is there to apply pressure, restrict opposition halfbacks and set up goals for our bigs.
Obviously we are all selecting our best team assuming that there is no injuries (which is a luxury that we hope happens).

For me it's
Cameron > Ratugolea
Duncan > Narkle, Higgins or Miers

Definitely a decent position to be in when a fit Higgins may not even be in our best 22.

 

[ShaunWDT]

Scott admitted we tried to play safe in the 2nd half, and tried to protect the lead. He also said we should have kept doing what got us the lead in the first place. The last thing we want to do is apply the brakes when we are on top.

Hopefully they learnt from that.

I thought it was pretty obvious that we got far enough in front and put the cue in the rack, dont have a massive problem with doing it either, rather players preserve their bodies for finals than go all out for 4 quarters and risk unnecessary injuries occurring.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Mmm, gotta respectfully disagree.

In both of those games, there are mitigating circumstances. The Melb game, we were severely depleted - especially in the forward line -, and our tweaks in our gamestyle weren't quite working that well yet. Round 23 against Melbourne will give us a much better indication of where we're at.

Brisbane was an outlier of an amazing 11 weeks. Put simply we looked absolutely gassed from the first bounce, and it showed as we got annihilated throughout the whole game. Most thought our 4 game stretch against Port, Dogs, Brissie and the Bombers, would net us 1 or 2 wins, given our post bye form on previous years and the strength of the oppo. To beat both Port, and the Dogs in two fiercely contested finals-like games, whilst travelling to 3 different states when it came to the Brissie game, was just a bridge too far. As much as it annoyed me on the night, I knew if it turned out to be an anomaly (as it has since then), then we'd be in good shape.

All teams have ebbs and flows, but we're peaking at the right time and we have very strong depth to cover any injuries too. We're in as good as a position as could be hoped, second only to the Dogs who we're equal with on points, who might not have that percentage had they faced the Same North as the comp is facing now (where they earned like 10+ percentage).

As always though, we'll see how it plays out once the real stuff rocks around, but our form, depth, Bottom 6 and our record against Top 8 sides means we're in probably the best position we've been since Danger arrived, to be the most dominant team in the comp and win it all.

I’m not sure how you can disagree, we can’t be playing finals pressure footy right now. It’s actually impossible. Because we aren’t yet playing finals. You’re speculating, nothing more.

 

[Shadow89]

I’m not sure how you can disagree, we can’t be playing finals pressure footy right now. It’s actually impossible. Because we aren’t yet playing finals. You’re speculating, nothing more.

Finals like games are ones played against other likely finals opponents, where both sides are decently matched. Both the Port and Dogs games were like that.

I can disagree, and I have. We're sitting equal first on points, yet it's still not good enough and people apparently aren't allowed to state why we're going well - because apparently that's just 'speculation.'

Even if we win the flag, I still think you people would find a way to bitch about it.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I agree we need Stanley playing every week. He has had a substantial rest and reset early in the year in the 2s. Just keep him there.

I agree Cameron back will be key. I love what Sav brought last weekend but I don't think we can play 4 marking targets forward so I think Sav should miss but for injuries to others. He'll be played though, I just think it's a mistake.

I think we need the courage to make the right decision regarding our b22. If Higgins isn't in good enough form going into finals then we have to play Close. I'd personally play Close anyway.

I think the most important is no new injuries. There is usually a degree of Bradbury in every premiership. This will be no exception.

Wins in the final few rounds might be harder to manufacture than we think. Our last 4 wins have not featured notable opposition. North is in better form than all of them. Saints would have rolled us had they kicked straight. GWS have started playing with output more reflective of their average draft position. Melbourne are 3rd on the ladder.

Let's not drink the bathwater. Bit to play out here.

 

[Vdubs]

No but I want to hear crazy's thought's because he is making it out to be a positive when in fact, it's a worrying dilemma. Cameron is obviously a certain inclusion but you have a player who is ready to go up a notch and make the grade but only if he is played as a forward. He is a better mark and he is also a traditional key position player who can crash a puck in a way Cameron does not.

It's a concern going forward because we cannot play all three key forwards along with Stanley. Simply won't work. Ratugolea will have to go back to spudding it up in the ruck when Cameron returns.

 

[Seeds]

This season looks a lot like 1993.

except this time we are in prime position rather then struggling to make it to the finals.

 

[allrighty]

This season looks a lot like 1993.

except this time we are in prime position rather then struggling to make it to the finals.

So it looks like just the same except for basically everything? Is that what you mean?

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

I was polite to you, yet you're a dick in return? Good job. Finals like games are ones played against other likely finals opponents, where both sides are decently matched. Both the Port and Dogs games were like that.

I can disagree, and I have. We're sitting equal first on points, yet it's still not good enough and people apparently aren't allowed to state why we're going well - because apparently that's just 'speculation.'

Even if we win the flag, I still think you people would find a way to b*tch about it.

Your entire premise is based on fantasy at this point in time. You are claiming we are playing “finals footy” when we are demonstrably not even playing finals yet. Which is my entire point, we have been strong in the H&A MANY times since 2011 only to get snuffed out via poor efforts against sides that overwhelm us with intensity. You literally have no basis to make your claim yet, we still have 4 rounds of H&A left.

 

[Vdubs]

I'll give credit to Ratugolea for a decent game yesterday.... But I'm certainly not sold on him being in the team when Cameron is back.
I just can't cop Ratugolea in the ruck at all, so he has to play as a perma key forward.
Him playing forward will mean that we will likely need to drop a small who is there to apply pressure, restrict opposition halfbacks and set up goals for our bigs.
Obviously we are all selecting our best team assuming that there is no injuries (which is a luxury that we hope happens).

For me it's
Cameron > Ratugolea
Duncan > Narkle, Higgins or Miers

Definitely a decent position to be in when a fit Higgins may not even be in our best 22.

1.I think we need our most lethal players when finals come around- that will include Sav, somewhere, somehow- whether it be part KF, part ruck, etc. He will worry any defence and opposition.
2. I very much doubt Duncan will make it back to his peak fitness and touch before we need him in September, and anything less than peak for him makes him a liability. Hoping he is already training and proving this wrong, as his best makes us really great, but the injury is significant. Very glad i'm not a selector- as you say,we have DEPTH "problems "

 

[cats_09]

Seriously all...

I know we all get passionate about the club and our opinions on various topics, but can we please be more mindful of the language used at times

Maybe we all just need to chill & take a step back if we're about to cross the line

Please carry on and let's try to be a bit more friendly in discussing how the club can go about winning the premiership this year

 

[Nickoo]

I think a major thing that hasn't been mentioned is we need a covid free Victoria, an interstate finals bubble wouldn't be helpful at all, esp considering we look likely to earn some state home finals.

Very true. There’s a rumour that they’re considering the option of limiting attendance to the fully vaccinated (use the COVID certificate). Being fully vaxed I like this idea v.much. Might make it easier to get tix.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Nickoo]

I thought Miers played well yesterday.

So did I.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Nickoo]

A lot of pieces to the puzzle but a fit Stanley is critical - we dominated clearances and hit outs yesterday against a bloody good ruck , first use for our mids is a massive gain for us. Stanley also allows us to play Blitz elsewhere with a bit of relief ruckwork.
I'd like to see us play the 3 talls before finals but that will be Cameron dependent , hope it can happen. Will the extra aerial power offset the drop off in F50 pressure - one for the coaches I guess.

Cameron and Duncan returning will be massive but will put extreme pressure on selection - we need the match committee to be smart and ruthless to pick the best side - no more smart arse left field selections in finals like we had 2 years ago please !

Left field selections are one of my biggest worries. When the message came up that they dropped Stanley before the Collingwood game my heart just sunk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Nickoo]

We need to sports harder than the other team.

???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[PhatBoy]

If you didn’t see it do yourself a favour and watch on the couch for this week. They went quite into depth about our defence and the fact that half a dozen players don’t actually have a position and work so well together.

also nice for Garry Lyon to say ‘Hawkins is absolutely the most unselfish forward I have ever watched play.’

 

[Seeds]

So it looks like just the same except for basically everything? Is that what you mean?

That’s only if you look at it with a Geelong eye only.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Finals like games are ones played against other likely finals opponents, where both sides are decently matched. Both the Port and Dogs games were like that.

I can disagree, and I have. We're sitting equal first on points, yet it's still not good enough and people apparently aren't allowed to state why we're going well - because apparently that's just 'speculation.'

Even if we win the flag, I still think you people would find a way to b*tch about it.

You need to understand that alot of pessimistic people on here define finals pressure as any finals game geelong loses, and none of the finals game geelong wins can count in this theory.

The loss to port counts, but the win against collingwood doesnt ( insert excuses here) the win against brisbane doesnt count ( insert excuses here) but the richmond gamr counts.

The definition of finals pressure gets changed from simply finals footy matches to games that geelong loose.

Simply no point arguing with trolls like that