What They're Saying - The Bulldogs Media Thread - Part 3

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Northernsoul74

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 19, 2016
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Norm De Guerre

Left of the dial.
Mar 27, 2004
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Is the Tim English putting on a couple of kg's, the new 'Shaun Higgings is training the house down' meme that the media used to sh*t out every summer?
 

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Doggies_13

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Champion data released their elite rankings for players and they are horrendous.

included as elite: mason cox, wingard, Sam Walsh, Motlop, Lyons, Oscar Allen

we are equal most with 5: Dunkley, Williams, Bont, Daniel and Hunter.

Would have macrae as elite over Dunkley and even though Williams had a break out year hardly elite
 

TBOW

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Champion data released their elite rankings for players and they are horrendous.

included as elite: mason cox, wingard, Sam Walsh, Motlop, Lyons, Oscar Allen

we are equal most with 5: Dunkley, Williams, Bont, Daniel and Hunter.

Would have macrae as elite over Dunkley and even though Williams had a break out year hardly elite
Yeah West Coast forward line has Darling and Allen as elite and Kennedy not. Just baffling.
 

Bulldogs85

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Sep 25, 2016
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Champion data released their elite rankings for players and they are horrendous.

included as elite: mason cox, wingard, Sam Walsh, Motlop, Lyons, Oscar Allen

we are equal most with 5: Dunkley, Williams, Bont, Daniel and Hunter.

Would have macrae as elite over Dunkley and even though Williams had a break out year hardly elite
Everyone that works for champion data must be doing some powerful drugs Mason Cox ELITE I think not
 

Boyd oh Boyd

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Nov 29, 2018
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Most of the players classified as elite when you wouldn't expect them do seem to be the types that are classified as one position but spend a lot of time in another. McEvoy gets stats like an above average key defender, but as they've categorised him as a ruck he's getting better stats than everyone else in his 'position'. Cox and Allen get the same but as key forwards. Fisher and Walsh don't seem elite but maybe because they're above average in so many categories that's enough? Motlop makes 0 sense to me. What a sh*t system.
 

Virgin Dog

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Most of the players classified as elite when you wouldn't expect them do seem to be the types that are classified as one position but spend a lot of time in another. McEvoy gets stats like an above average key defender, but as they've categorised him as a ruck he's getting better stats than everyone else in his 'position'. Cox and Allen get the same but as key forwards. Fisher and Walsh don't seem elite but maybe because they're above average in so many categories that's enough? Motlop makes 0 sense to me. What a sh*t system.
Quite often Champion Data will put huge weight into specific stats for each position. For example, for Key Forwards, goalkicking accuracy and contested marking are two very important stats. Mason Cox rates elite in both (kicked 14.2 in 11 games, and averaged over 2 contested marks per game). Never mind that he's grossly lacking in other areas, these two areas could have been enough to lift him to elite status. Highly flawed, but that's generally how they function and is a common occurrence when you rely so heavily on what amounts to simplistic stats.

As an example from the Dogs, Bailey Williams ranked reasonably high among defenders (non-key) for score launches (2nd), metres gained (7th), rebound 50s (4th), intercept marks (10th) and score involvements (6th). He was statistically one of the best attacking defenders in 2020, even if he wasn't even in the conversation for AA. Only thing I find strange with this is that Jayden Short basically matches him in all these areas, yet wasn't rated elite. Must have been borderline
 

Oliver Gigacz

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Quite often Champion Data will put huge weight into specific stats for each position. For example, for Key Forwards, goalkicking accuracy and contested marking are two very important stats. Mason Cox rates elite in both (kicked 14.2 in 11 games, and averaged over 2 contested marks per game). Never mind that he's grossly lacking in other areas, these two areas could have been enough to lift him to elite status. Highly flawed, but that's generally how they function and is a common occurrence when you rely so heavily on what amounts to simplistic stats.

As an example from the Dogs, Bailey Williams ranked reasonably high among defenders (non-key) for score launches (2nd), metres gained (7th), rebound 50s (4th), intercept marks (10th) and score involvements (6th). He was statistically one of the best attacking defenders in 2020, even if he wasn't even in the conversation for AA. Only thing I find strange with this is that Jayden Short basically matches him in all these areas, yet wasn't rated elite. Must have been borderline
^This. The system they use relies WAY too heavily on what position the player is rated on. I know it's very hard to find a system that covers pretty much everything but I personally find this one the worst.

Dreamteam is just old and doesn't cover enough.
AFL Player Ratings rely way too much on accuracy and heavily penalise kicking/handballing backwards so a lot of mids miss out.
Champion Data Player Ratings see what Virgin Dog said above
Champion Data Ranking Points (Supercoach) is generally okay but does overcompensate ruck/mids while key positions can miss out but not always. It's been 12 years since it was last tweaked and it's probably time for another.

The best metric really is the eyes and brain but out of these Ranking Points are probably the closest we've got statistically to that at the moment.
 

BEaston

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Quite often Champion Data will put huge weight into specific stats for each position. For example, for Key Forwards, goalkicking accuracy and contested marking are two very important stats. Mason Cox rates elite in both (kicked 14.2 in 11 games, and averaged over 2 contested marks per game). Never mind that he's grossly lacking in other areas, these two areas could have been enough to lift him to elite status. Highly flawed, but that's generally how they function and is a common occurrence when you rely so heavily on what amounts to simplistic stats.

As an example from the Dogs, Bailey Williams ranked reasonably high among defenders (non-key) for score launches (2nd), metres gained (7th), rebound 50s (4th), intercept marks (10th) and score involvements (6th). He was statistically one of the best attacking defenders in 2020, even if he wasn't even in the conversation for AA. Only thing I find strange with this is that Jayden Short basically matches him in all these areas, yet wasn't rated elite. Must have been borderline
Good point. Who knows what metrics they are using for each position... :shrug:
 

BEaston

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Oct 9, 2013
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^This. The system they use relies WAY too heavily on what position the player is rated on. I know it's very hard to find a system that covers pretty much everything but I personally find this one the worst.

Dreamteam is just old and doesn't cover enough.
AFL Player Ratings rely way too much on accuracy and heavily penalise kicking/handballing backwards so a lot of mids miss out.
Champion Data Player Ratings see what Virgin Dog said above
Champion Data Ranking Points (Supercoach) is generally okay but does overcompensate ruck/mids while key positions can miss out but not always. It's been 12 years since it was last tweaked and it's probably time for another.

The best metric really is the eyes and brain but out of these Ranking Points are probably the closest we've got statistically to that at the moment.
I don't like that Ranking Points has a finite number of points per game. That doesn't really make sense as a statistical model to me (Although I understand why they do it). Secondly, the adjustment for "game-winning" actions like clutch goals, etc. Again doesn't make sense in a statistical model.

Do you have any additional information regarding the penalty of disposing backwards in AFL ratings? I could see why that would make sense if they have simulated (or tested) scoring likelihood of possession position/direction and weight the possession with respect to that model. At least it would be based on data.
 

Oliver Gigacz

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I don't like that Ranking Points has a finite number of points per game. That doesn't really make sense as a statistical model to me (Although I understand why they do it). Secondly, the adjustment for "game-winning" actions like clutch goals, etc. Again doesn't make sense in a statistical model.

Do you have any additional information regarding the penalty of disposing backwards in AFL ratings? I could see why that would make sense if they have simulated (or tested) scoring likelihood of possession position/direction and weight the possession with respect to that model. At least it would be based on data.
I believe it's around 0.4 points for anything backwards.

I agree with your points regarding Ranking Ponts, however out of all the systems it's the one that generally comes close to what I would have as the best 44 on the ground.
 

manutd/dogs

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:think:
Lakey fined $900 for poking a Crown security guard in the nose. He was fined more for not mowing his nature strip last year - $1200

View attachment 1052584
I must say I'm shocked and appalled at Lakey's heartless negligence in regards to his front nature strip. Letting those blades of grass just horridly grow is clearly a window looking onto a cracked and broken soul bereft of any redeeming qualities whatsoever.
 

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