Preview Who will finish higher - Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda or Hawthorn

[Strapping Young Lad]

Melbourne, Bulldogs and Hawks will all welcome back players who should improve them to some level, and honestly won’t be surprised if any of those improve on 2017 ...Saints are the ones that have the most question marks for mine.

Coach. Not sure on Richo and some of his set ups.
Players. Do they have enough star power?
Determination. Do they have the fire to put in week after week?

 

[demondavey]

I have Melbourne top 4, so I agree with much of what you’re saying(even though I do question if Goodwin can get it done) as the players are there to get the job done.

If Melbourne don’t make finals, then I guess we can use the training camp scenario as a bit of a window into what might have gone wrong(not all players fully in board).

A lot of people are questioning Goodwin, I am not sure whether it's warranted yet though. Not playing finals this year wasn't a disaster, not playing them next year is. If we don't play finals next year then something is seriously wrong and I guarantee you that training camp thread will be bumped.

I think if no finals happen in 2018 then Goodwin will be gone and we would probably throw 2 million a year at Clarkson or a proven coach. The club just can't have another year of no finals, with the list we have if that was to happen I'd confidently confirm the culture would be eroded for the worse.

 

[demondavey]

Melbourne, Bulldogs and Hawks will all welcome back players who should improve them to some level, and honestly won’t be surprised if any of those improve on 2017 ...Saints are the ones that have the most question marks for mine.

Coach. Not sure on Richo and some of his set ups.
Players. Do they have enough star power?
Determination. Do they have the fire to put in week after week?

They had some big wins this year, they put Hawthorn and Richmond to the sword. I think they've got a reasonable core group but are missing 2 really good players in order to be back into that regular finals concersation. Definitely have the beginnings of a good outfit though.

They'll rattle some cages next year.

 

[HARKER]

Where's Carlton?

Melbourne: Culture issues.
Western Dogs: All sorts of issues.
Saints: A bit gluggy for mine.
Hawthorn: Could go either way.

I'll go for the safe option although they may not be the best equipped team next year: Hawthorn.

 

[Nobby]

Pretty much. We beat Adelaide by 40 points on the road then lose to North the week later at home. We lead Fremantle at the G by 28 points at half time then lose by 2. We lead Geelong by 25 in the third quarter and lose by 30.

We muck around against North in Tasmania and lose by 4. We lead Richmond by 24 points at three quarter time and lose by 13. We decide it's too hard to play in round 23 when finals is up for grabs. We piss around against Hawthorn for a half before playing a blinder in the second half and lose by 3 points.

The losses are soft losses, there's no urgency to get on with it and turn a 25 point lead into a 75 point win. That's what we've got to do. Stop looking for other players to carry on and have ownership all across the team. More leadership, more killer instinct.

Honestly, that stuff only comes from one source, the playing group deciding themselves they'll all be accountable and all lead together. We get the mental stuff right, we are top 4 for the next 3 years.

Sounds to me like cancelling the Camp was another example of things being too hard.

Going to be interesting to see if not going impacts them in '18, i fnothing else it will make good banter on the field for the opposition.

 

[demondavey]

Sounds to me like cancelling the Camp was another example of things being too hard.

Going to be interesting to see if not going impacts them in '18, i fnothing else it will make good banter on the field for the opposition.

It'll be definitely present on the field next year, and only time will tell whether it makes a difference. I still firmly believe it's between the ears with Melbourne.

 

[demondavey]

Where's Carlton?

Melbourne: Culture issues.
Western Dogs: All sorts of issues.
Saints: A bit gluggy for mine.
Hawthorn: Could go either way.

I'll go for the safe option although they may not be the best equipped team next year: Hawthorn.

Blues a year behind, but will be the best of the lot I reckon.

 

[ManOfClay]

Where's Carlton?

Melbourne: Culture issues.
Western Dogs: All sorts of issues.
Saints: A bit gluggy for mine.
Hawthorn: Could go either way.

I'll go for the safe option although they may not be the best equipped team next year: Hawthorn.

Carlton: just s**t. s**t coach, s**t list

 

[Bulldog1954]

Where's Carlton?

A long, long way behind the four teams in this thread and without 2 of their best 5 players in Gibbs and Docherty in 2018.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Carlton are in the group with Brisbane and I guess probably Gold Coast.

 

[GiantsTragic]

It'll be definitely present on the field next year, and only time will tell whether it makes a difference. I still firmly believe it's between the ears with Melbourne.

That will be found out when you play finals I think. In the H/A you need 13 wins to play at least oneandthat looks inevitable. It's one more and your youngsters are a year older.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

They had some big wins this year, they put Hawthorn and Richmond to the sword. I think they've got a reasonable core group but are missing 2 really good players in order to be back into that regular finals concersation. Definitely have the beginnings of a good outfit though.

They'll rattle some cages next year.

I don’t really take much from any sides that thumped Hawthorn early in 2017 when they continually turned up their toes(The post-bye Hawthorn was much better equipped to fight out games).

Saints are missing a couple of elite players to lead the charge, I agree.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Pretty much. We beat Adelaide by 40 points on the road then lose to North the week later at home. We lead Fremantle at the G by 28 points at half time then lose by 2. We lead Geelong by 25 in the third quarter and lose by 30.

We muck around against North in Tasmania and lose by 4. We lead Richmond by 24 points at three quarter time and lose by 13. We decide it's too hard to play in round 23 when finals is up for grabs. We piss around against Hawthorn for a half before playing a blinder in the second half and lose by 3 points.

The losses are soft losses, there's no urgency to get on with it and turn a 25 point lead into a 75 point win. That's what we've got to do. Stop looking for other players to carry on and have ownership all across the team. More leadership, more killer instinct.

Honestly, that stuff only comes from one source, the playing group deciding themselves they'll all be accountable and all lead together. We get the mental stuff right, we are top 4 for the next 3 years.

They are almost Richmond circa 2016.

 

[schmuttt]

They are almost Richmond circa 2016.

They're more like Geelong 2006 without the potential to literally dominate the next season and win the flag. Young group that keeps having mental lapses and the only ones who can fix it are themselves.

 

[demondavey]

That will be found out when you play finals I think. In the H/A you need 13 wins to play at least oneandthat looks inevitable. It's one more and your youngsters are a year older.

There's no guarantee we will get 13 wins. I've watched these guys play a lot of footy and the biggest hurdle is their will to win no matter the situation. It's going to take a big shift in their headspace to get over these sides and start winning regularly against anyone.

Opposition sides will get better, the top 8 won't drop away that much and sides like Brisbane, GC, and Carlton won't be games that we can bank on. Those sides will get better and they'll start getting decent scalps.

All I can say is that I hope these guys can realise their potential and get the psychological aspect ironed out. I seriously hope 2018 is a year for finals.

 

[GiantsTragic]

There's no guarantee we will get 13 wins. I've watched these guys play a lot of footy and the biggest hurdle is their will to win no matter the situation. It's going to take a big shift in their headspace to get over these sides and start winning regularly against anyone.

Opposition sides will get better, the top 8 won't drop away that much and sides like Brisbane, GC, and Carlton won't be games that we can bank on. Those sides will get better and they'll start getting decent scalps.

All I can say is that I hope these guys can realise their potential and get the psychological aspect ironed out. I seriously hope 2018 is a year for finals.

I get when you've waited a while it's natural to be pessimistic. A lot of Tigers fans were giving the same vibe last year.
It's all opinion but I think your list is too good not to, barring a horrific injury run. I certainly dont wish that on your guys.

 

[demondavey]

I get when you've waited a while it's natural to be pessimistic. A lot of Tigers fans were giving the same vibe last year.
It's all opinion but I think your list is too good not to, barring a horrific injury run. I certainly dont wish that on your guys.

I understand what you're saying, I am
Just a bit sceptical until I see us do it.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

They're more like Geelong 2006 without the potential to literally dominate the next season and win the flag. Young group that keeps having mental lapses and the only ones who can fix it are themselves.

Anything can happen, sometimes a build up of frustration can explode into conviction. I remember a Tigers supporter saying around April, that he wished his team could suffer a premiership hangover, as at least they would have a premiership. Fast forward six months and they dethroned us as premiers.

 

[BrutThough]

An interesting note; during the 2017 season Melbourne were the most accurate goal scoring team while Saints and Bulldogs were 17th and 18th for their accuracy.

The saints missed the finals due to our horrendous goal kicking, where it directly cost us games because we would dominate for a quarter but it wouldn't be noticed on the scoreboard. Examples are v Port where we were 3.13 at 3/4 time, v WC rd2 where we kicked 13.19 for the games and against Melbourne where in there 3rd quarter we kicked 4.7 and got back with 10 points instead of taking the lead. It also cost us large amounts of percentage throughout the year. If we could improve that aspect of our game by improve our accuracy a small amount, we are a finals team. That doesn't even take into account the rest of the squad improving (which they should because there are heaps of highly talented picks reaching the right age/games played bracket) - just our goal kicking. We have the most potent forward line out of the four teams, and really need to use this to our advantage.

 

[Ocha905]

Bulldogs- 4th
Melbourne- 6th
Hawthorn- 9th
St Kilda- 15th

 

[schmuttt]

An interesting note; during the 2017 season Melbourne were the most accurate goal scoring team while Saints and Bulldogs were 17th and 18th for their accuracy.

The saints missed the finals due to our horrendous goal kicking, where it directly cost us games because we would dominate for a quarter but it wouldn't be noticed on the scoreboard. Examples are v Port where we were 3.13 at 3/4 time, v WC rd2 where we kicked 13.19 for the games and against Melbourne where in there 3rd quarter we kicked 4.7 and got back with 10 points instead of taking the lead. It also cost us large amounts of percentage throughout the year. If we could improve that aspect of our game by improve our accuracy a small amount, we are a finals team. That doesn't even take into account the rest of the squad improving (which they should because there are heaps of highly talented picks reaching the right age/games played bracket) - just our goal kicking. We have the most potent forward line out of the four teams, and really need to use this to our advantage.

Do you have the best forwardline though? There are arguments that both ours and Hawthorn could be better than yours.

 

[JVseven]

Where's Carlton?

Melbourne: Culture issues.
Western Dogs: All sorts of issues.
Saints: A bit gluggy for mine.
Hawthorn: Could go either way.

I'll go for the safe option although they may not be the best equipped team next year: Hawthorn.

Carlton...going backwards.

 

[parmy2balmey]

A lot of people are questioning Goodwin, I am not sure whether it's warranted yet though. Not playing finals this year wasn't a disaster, not playing them next year is. If we don't play finals next year then something is seriously wrong and I guarantee you that training camp thread will be bumped.

I think if no finals happen in 2018 then Goodwin will be gone and we would probably throw 2 million a year at Clarkson or a proven coach. The club just can't have another year of no finals, with the list we have if that was to happen I'd confidently confirm the culture would be eroded for the worse.

should get Roos

 

[Gavin Excell]

It'll be definitely present on the field next year, and only time will tell whether it makes a difference. I still firmly believe it's between the ears with Melbourne.

I agree with your earlier comment that round 1 v Geelong is critical for your season. A disappointing loss can thump the confidence of a young team

 

[demondavey]

should get Roos

Seriously, if you want to contribute to the thread, contribute to it without being a smart arse. We know you won the flag, we get it, you can enjoy it, but if you want to gloat and just talk s**t there's a board for that called the Richmond Board.

Everyone is done with Richmond supporters being smart arses.