News Willie Rioli: tampered with drug testing sample; tests positive for cannabis

[Broken_Chairs]

• Alcohol: 3-5 days in urine, 10-12 hours in blood
• Amphetamines: 1-3 days in urine and around 12 hours in blood
• Barbiturates: 2-4 days in urine and 1-2 days in blood
• Benzodiazepines: 3-6 weeks in urine and 2-3 days in blood
• Cannabis: 7-30 days in urine and up to 2 weeks in blood
• Cocaine: 3-4 days in urine and 1-2 days in blood
• Codeine: 1 day in urine and up to 12 hours in blood
• Heroin: 3-4 days in urine and up to 12 hours in blood
• LSD: 1-3 days in urine and up to 2-3 hours in blood
• MDMA (ecstasy): 3-4 days in urine and 1-2 days in blood
• Methamphetamine (crystal meth): 3-6 days in urine and 24 - 72 hours in blood
• Methadone: 3-4 days in urine and 24-36 hours in blood
• Morphine: 2-3 days in urine and 6-8 hours in blood

If he had used cocaine, MDMA or meth over the weekend that would be what I expect is being avoided.

But the delay isn't important, the method of testing gives significant advantage there.

If say you had taken a weight loss amphetamine, it makes you dehydrated. As long as it was the night before you should be clear on a blood test... but it will show in your urine.

Are these drugs being tested for out of competition?

 

[madrigal]

Being fair I doubt anyone thinks he’s a rocket scientist at this point.

Willie's a simple country boy. You might say a cockeyed optimist, who got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of elite sport and drug testing.

 

[master bate]

Any chance he/they can stop with the bulls**t. Just for once can a man actually stand up in the footy world and stop lying.

He couldn't piss in a jar for two hours, so he poured a sports drink into the test kit out of frustration. You have to be kidding? GAGF.

If you were going to deliberately take a performance enhancing drugs you'd come up with a far better way of avoiding detection than something so utterly stupid as pouring a drink in to the jar.

I'd say 50% chance he really is so naive as to pour the sports drink in, stupidity is just as likely as anything else. 30% chance he's taken an illicit drug in the lead up to the game and wants to avoid detection. 20% chance he's accidentally taken something he's found out is actually a PED and panicked.

But you'd have to be dumb as a rock to deliberately cheat and then not have a better plan than this. It's like robbing a bank and not having a get away car. The first thing you'd do when taking PED's is surely ask whoever you're getting it from how to avoid detection and they're going to have a better response than sports drink!

 

[Slartibartfast]

The i was dehydrated after a physicsal session does not ring true.

When practising, players hydrate before and during the session.
To say that I sweat lots and cannot pee is not true, if you have hydrated before and during session which players are encouraged to do you would still have some fluids go to your bladder. It may be less due to the physical activity but there will still be some.
Now if you tell me I was still quite tense after the physical activity it may be a case that you need to sit down and relax yourself before you can produce a stream but it will come.

Once with the tester , if he was dehydrated or not he would have drunk 500-1000ml if not more quite quickly , which easily would be enough to bring on a pee.

To say he could not pee after an extended period and then panicked and poured sportsdrink into flask sounds like he thought he had something to hide.

 

[ThirtyFive]

Are these drugs being tested for out of competition?

Some are. yes. Anything regarded as a stimulant that shows up in competition is banned.

 

[kaiserchief13]

The issue is, the next time someone else gets done are they going to say I have a low IQ please be lenient I am exceptionally stupid and don't listen at the education I have been given

Very convenient and if it works why woudnt everyone use that excuse, its the perfect defence if it is excepted for all and sundry

If it's for being stupid half a season is a big enough deterrent I would think. Taking him out of finals next year as well if what's being reported is true would be absolute bs for both him and WC

 

[nineteen eighty]

he could have been microdosing EPO for all we know.

Microdosing at AFL level? Who would have thunk?

Common across most sports worldwide. Do we really think that AFL footballers being trained by elite performance managers aren’t being coached on how to microdose?!

 

[Unique Name]

How can ASADA be certain that the delay between the gatorade sample and the blood test wasn't all that was needed for drugs to be out of his system?

 

[Unique Name]

How do we know Willie isn't a master manipulator?

 

[nineteen eighty]

If it's for being stupid half a season is a big enough deterrent I would think. Taking him out of finals next year as well if what's being reported is true would be absolute bs for both him and WC

So how do you tell who is an idiot and who is using this “method” to beat a positive test?

 

[Scotland]

How can ASADA be certain that the delay between the gatorade sample and the blood test wasn't all that was needed for drugs to be out of his system?

They can't, but is their job to know about this sort of stuff.

 

[Unique Name]

They can't, but is their job to know about this sort of stuff.

I suppose that's why the penalty for tampering is so high. It's already so hard to catch PED use, when someone actively tries to make it even harder they have to just assume the worst. Because if they believe Willie's story and give him a big discount then that's what everyone will say in the future. Where does that leave ASADA in the future?

 

[Taylor]

You seem to know a little about it but one of the things that I was thinking about was that taking so long to provide a sample on game day because you are dehydrated makes sense but on a training night not so much? What do you think?

I think that the professional athletes learn very early that hydration is vital to recovery and operation. I feel like my ligaments literally grind on my bones and each other when I'm a bit low on fluid and when I'm well hydrated it's smooth.

The players are given a 1.25L mix of electrolytes and water at Freo post training to catch up on fluid loss.

Dehydration is a big deal, but I've heard Dean Cox talking about drinking five litres before a game and eight litres the day before. It would be hard to not pee clear.

Maybe he loses a lot of fluid training. Maybe he takes a diuretic. That would be a ban too though because flushing your system can mask.

This entire process is about putting doubt in the public mind.

 

[JackOutback]

Does it really matter why he did it?

He did it. Hes obviously not allowed to do it. Everything else is just PR.

Players who break the code are not victims. And they must be held accountable for their actions. If it was up to people on this forum we'd be having AFL footballers dying in droves from a PED free for all.

Of course it does; that's why we have sliding scales of punishment in all walks of life.

 

[kaiserchief13]

So how do you tell who is an idiot and who is using this “method” to beat a positive test?

If he was blood tested same time and it came back clear that would prove it

 

[creepyguy23]

I don't know why everyone is arguing about whether he had used drugs or not.
For ASADA, thats is no longer the issue anymore.
The problem is that Rioli tampered with him sample. Legally, that's ultimately the crux of the issue. The agencies are directed to then assume the worst as soon as a sample is tampered with.

It sucks though, a simple brain-fade like this can ruin his career

 

[Scotland]

I suppose that's why the penalty for tampering is so high. It's already so hard to catch PED use, when someone actively tries to make it even harder they have to just assume the worst. Because if they believe Willie's story and give him a big discount then that's what everyone will say in the future. Where does that leave ASADA in the future?

There's a bit of grey area because of all the moving parts.

Sam Murray for example was offered two years by ASADA then given 18 months by the AFL. ASADA were then able to appeal the AFL ban which they chose not to. In the Essendon saga ASADA chose not to appeal and then WADA appealed over the top of that.

The AFL could say 'you're a very naughty boy Basil, don't do it again' and give Rioli a slap on the wrist but ASADA would appeal and drag it out longer which would mean more negative PR for the AFL. The AFL will be trying to balance making it look like they don't have drug cheats in their comp while trying not to effectively end a player's career for what is potentially a silly mistake and keeping ASADA/WADA on side.

Personally I find the whole setup a bit odd.

 

[telsor]

If he was blood tested same time and it came back clear that would prove it

If that would prove it, then why do they even do a urine test?

Could it be that they can show different things? If so, then a blood test *wouldn't* prove everything...


Doesn't really matter though...Tampering with a test is a breach of the rules anyway. End of story.

It doesn't matter if there is something to find, it's a serious breach in and of itself, and one comes with very high penalties exactly because of the kind of uncertainty it can cause.

 

[Numero Uno]

No surprise very salty and obsessed freo fans dominating discussion

when your club is so s**t, this is what you have to cling to

 

[tandino]

If that would prove it, then why do they even do a urine test?

Could it be that they can show different things? If so, then a blood test *wouldn't* prove everything...


Doesn't really matter though...Tampering with a test is a breach of the rules anyway. End of story.

It doesn't matter if there is something to find, it's a serious breach in and of itself, and one comes with very high penalties exactly because of the kind of uncertainty it can cause.

That's 100% correct.

Why does it matter if it's against the ASADA rules anyway?

 

[telsor]

There's a bit of grey area because of all the moving parts.

Sam Murray for example was offered two years by ASADA then given 18 months by the AFL. ASADA were then able to appeal the AFL ban which they chose not to. In the Essendon saga ASADA chose not to appeal and then WADA appealed over the top of that.

The AFL could say 'you're a very naughty boy Basil, don't do it again' and give Rioli a slap on the wrist but ASADA would appeal and drag it out longer which would mean more negative PR for the AFL. The AFL will be trying to balance making it look like they don't have drug cheats in their comp while trying not to effectively end a player's career for what is potentially a silly mistake and keeping ASADA/WADA on side.

Personally I find the whole setup a bit odd.

Don't forget that keeping ASADA/WADA onside is a requirement for receiving government money (federal definitely, but state/local would get federal pressure to follow along). The AFL get a lot of government money (directly and indirectly).

 

[ThirtyFive]

There's a bit of grey area because of all the moving parts.

Sam Murray for example was offered two years by ASADA then given 18 months by the AFL. ASADA were then able to appeal the AFL ban which they chose not to. In the Essendon saga ASADA chose not to appeal and then WADA appealed over the top of that.

The AFL could say 'you're a very naughty boy Basil, don't do it again' and give Rioli a slap on the wrist but ASADA would appeal and drag it out longer which would mean more negative PR for the AFL. The AFL will be trying to balance making it look like they don't have drug cheats in their comp while trying not to effectively end a player's career for what is potentially a silly mistake and keeping ASADA/WADA on side.

Personally I find the whole setup a bit odd.

ASADA didn’t choose not to appeal the Essendon decision by the AFL Doping Tribunal. McDevitt’s decision to refer it straight to WADA and CAS was, strategically, a master stroke. He knew the burden of proof would be lower at CAS.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Anyone arguing that this was ‘one silly brainfade’ is not thinking clearly.

He’s obviously taken something that he’s worried about showing up on the test and THEN tried to tamper with the test.

That’s not a brainfade. It’s not the behavior of someone who can be a professional athlete. I was initially hoping that this was somehow a mix up, because I live him as a player, but if he gets off lightly it will just feed what some players (and officials) obviously feel: there’s some wiggle room in the drug-testing game.

 

[Scotland]

Don't forget that keeping ASADA/WADA onside is a requirement for receiving government money (federal definitely, but state/local would get federal pressure to follow along). The AFL get a lot of government money (directly and indirectly).

Yep, the AFL have a lot of balls to juggle in all this.

 

[deck]

The i was dehydrated after a physicsal session does not ring true.

When practising, players hydrate before and during the session.
To say that I sweat lots and cannot pee is not true, if you have hydrated before and during session which players are encouraged to do you would still have some fluids go to your bladder. It may be less due to the physical activity but there will still be some.
Now if you tell me I was still quite tense after the physical activity it may be a case that you need to sit down and relax yourself before you can produce a stream but it will come.

Once with the tester , if he was dehydrated or not he would have drunk 500-1000ml if not more quite quickly , which easily would be enough to bring on a pee.

To say he could not pee after an extended period and then panicked and poured sportsdrink into flask sounds like he thought he had something to hide.

I'm interested to know what sort of amounts you would need to drink the dilute the sample as unusable under WADA code.