Winning a premiership as a non-Vic side?

[MrChow]

Is it actually possible to win a flag as a non-Vic club?

Since clubs have joined the VFL, the only team who has won a premiership without any extra incentives, or lists built from inception draft picks, or benefits from mergers is West Coast in 2006.

• The early West Coast and Adelaide flags were built on the draft picks and State League players.
• Brisbanes only flags were from creating a super merger team with Fitzroy

-Ports was from building its original list, with the incentives provided by AFL
- Sydney had COLA which is now gone
-GWS, Freo, GC have never won one.

So, we often look at the little Vic Bias things, but as a whole I think it is next to impossible to win a flag as a non-Vic team. Basically since the 80s, excluding all the interstate flags, with the second best teams mostly Vics, it’s only really 1 in 40 years.

 

[El Zorro]

Safe to say that statistically, it is very difficult. West Coast is the biggest club in the land and even they struggle to dominate. It doesn't help that the GF is played at the MCG regardless of merit. We'll never know, but I think the Crows win the 2017 GF if it was played at AO. Sydney got robbed by the umpires/AFL in 2016. I mean, the whole league is rigged against non-Victorian clubs.

 

[melanChronic]

West Coast did it in 2018 as well.

It is possible, but you generally need to be an absolute H/A juggernaut that utilises home ground advantage to win through 2 home finals with a week off in between, and then

- get another non Vic club in the GF (West Coast 2006)​

- do it in a dud year (West Coast 2018)​

- hope you don't get an MCG tenant that is peaking at the right time a la Adelaide 2017​

- hope you don't get a scrubber Vic club fairytale a la Sydney 2016.​

​

​

Whilst we continue to be flimsy at home we are no chance to even make the GF.

​

 

[TeeKray]

The stats speak for themselves really.

If you had to narrow in on one statistical factor that predicts winning a premiership it would without doubt be 'being a Victorian team'.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Waiting for the royal commission like the Vic clubs got after 2006. The fact that there is complete silence about 15 years of Victorian dominance tells you everything you need to know about how much the AFL cares about the non-Vic clubs.

At the very least, the 8 non-Vic clubs need to band together and vote and lobby as a block.

 

[sobrave]

It's not just the things that interstate clubs had, it's the leg ups that the Vic clubs got more recently.

The Vic govt have spent millions on the construction site that is geebung's weird shapes home ground that they win 90% of the time at.

Look at the father son picks Geelong got for nothing before their period of dominance. Hawkins and Ablett. Look at who Hawthorn got through priority picks that don't exist anymore.

They got to cash in on weak years due to all the talent going to gws and GC.

The dank factor.

The ridiculous umpiring run the Bulldogs got in 2016.

The wave of media attention, fervour and automatic home ground advantage clubs like Melbourne and Richmond got because they become the magical fairytale.

Little things, like cotchins bullshit non suspension after knocking out Dylan shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

in the prelim (which ironically turned that game on its head).

The lack of travel for big Vicco clubs.

The favoured umpiring and tribunal decisions.

 

[Grave Danger]

Is it actually possible to win a flag as a non-Vic club?

Since clubs have joined the VFL, the only team who has won a premiership without any extra incentives, or lists built from inception draft picks, or benefits from mergers is West Coast in 2006.

• The early West Coast and Adelaide flags were built on the draft picks and State League players.
• Brisbanes only flags were from creating a super merger team with Fitzroy

-Ports was from building its original list, with the incentives provided by AFL
- Sydney had COLA which is now gone
-GWS, Freo, GC have never won one.

So, we often look at the little Vic Bias things, but as a whole I think it is next to impossible to win a flag as a non-Vic team. Basically since the 80s, excluding all the interstate flags, with the second best teams mostly Vics, it’s only really 1 in 40 years.

West Coast won it again in 2018 - did what the Crows failed miserably to do the year before. They're a behemoth, but it ain't helping them much right now. They have been good at bouncing back fairly quickly from bottoming out in the past though.

 

[Marmozet]

The only two truly decent non-Victorian clubs are Sydney and West Coast. In fact, the last 4 non-Victorian premierships are shared between them.

Even on the odd occasion the cup does leave Victoria, there's a 90% chance it'll be Sydney or West Coast.

 

[MrChow]

I think the ability of Vic clubs to recruit through trades the gaps in their lists during premiership windows is also never spoken about. The bigger pool of options, the extra financial incentives (outside of club salary), and yep GwS and GC being feeder clubs.

 

[MrChow]

Waiting for the royal commission like the Vic clubs got after 2006. The fact that there is complete silence about 15 years of Victorian dominance tells you everything you need to know about how much the AFL cares about the non-Vic clubs.

At the very least, the 8 non-Vic clubs need to band together and vote and lobby as a block.

Are the interstate AFL clubs allowed to actually do this though - ie ‘bringing the game into dispute’?

 

[MrChow]

Actually the clubs can’t do shite, I dont have the time to write it, but if the Prison Bars petition Change.org got 40,000 signatures, I reckon a well written Non-Vic Bias campaign could go alright…

Probably the best thing about a petition is the Pro Vic forum/social media keyboard warriors and Vic Media can’t really discredit the actual number of signatures.

How many signatures before the media pick it up?

How many signatures before the AFL actually does something?

 

[RossFC]

The only two truly decent non-Victorian clubs are Sydney and West Coast. In fact, the last 4 non-Victorian premierships are shared between them.

Even on the odd occasion the cup does leave Victoria, there's a 90% chance it'll be Sydney or West Coast.

When Sydney wins, it's branded as a win for the South Melbourne Bloods.

 

[tribey]

While I absolutely acknowledge how stacked the deck is against clubs like ours at large, when you qualify for back-to-back home Prelims, with the added incentive of the decider being played on neutral territory both years, you should probably win at least one.

 

[Doctor Feel]

While I absolutely acknowledge how stacked the deck is against clubs like ours at large, when you qualify for back-to-back home Prelims, with the added incentive of the decider being played on neutral territory both years, you should probably win at least one.

This over all over things, this clown car of a club completely ****ed the most golden opportunities we may ever see in our lifetime.

 

[TeeKray]

The key point is the grand final venue. Critically, non Victorian teams are not underrepresented in finals, top 4 finishes or grand final appearances. They are specifically underrepresented in premierships.

If you look at recent history, there are many examples of Victorian teams beating higher qualified non Victorian teams in grand finals.

2014 - Hawthorn (2nd) def Sydney (1st)
2015 - Hawthorn (3rd) def West Coast (2nd)
2016 - Western Bulldogs (7th) def Sydney (1st)
2017 - Richmond (3rd) def Adelaide (1st)

You can all but assume that if hosting rights for the above games were reversed (as they should be on rights) that the opposite team would've won.

If that were the case, there would be an additional 4 non Victorian premierships in the past decade and suddenly the balance of Victorian and non Victorian premierships would seem much more palatable and within reasonable statistical boundaries.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Actually the clubs can’t do shite, I dont have the time to write it, but if the Prison Bars petition Change.org got 40,000 signatures, I reckon a well written Non-Vic Bias campaign could go alright…

Probably the best thing about a petition is the Pro Vic forum/social media keyboard warriors and Vic Media can’t really discredit the actual number of signatures.

How many signatures before the media pick it up?

How many signatures before the AFL actually does something?

West Coast supporters are the most numerous and hate the Vic bias more ferociously than any other set of fans. That's where this movement would have to start. West Coast have the financial might to push it as well.

 

[shewho]

The ball is the same size and shape for both teams. Both sides have 22 players and one sub.

Any inequality is conspiracy theory and those that waste time on conspiracy theories put themselves at a psychological disadvantage.

This thread is crap.

 

[raptalia]

I think the ability of Vic clubs to recruit through trades the gaps in their lists during premiership windows is also never spoken about. The bigger pool of options, the extra financial incentives (outside of club salary), and yep GwS and GC being feeder clubs.

Yes that is true and the Victorian Clubs have a number of other factors in their favour.

The go home factor plus the fact that the majority of players drafted are Victorian means the lure of Melbourne is strong. In last year's draft 8 of the top 10 players were Victorian. The chances are some of these palyers will eventually finish up playing for one of the big Melbourne clubs. If Cadman or Humphrey are any good how long before they want a move back to Victoria?

The lop sided draw is also a factor. In 2019 Richmond played their last 7 minor round games at the MCG. Imagine the bleating from Victoria if an interstate club had i'st last 7 games at home then lined up for a Grand Final on their home ground.

Pandemics aside the Grand Final is always played at the MCG and that has to be an advantage to Melbourne based sides.

I guess it gets down to the fact that the so called AFL is really only an extended VFL with the interstate sides there to give the competition national status.

I also follow the NRL and the percieved big state bias seems to be unique to the AFL competition. Maybe it is because in the NRL Queensland win their share of State of Origin and Melbourne Storm have been dominant. Statistically there are more NSW teams in the NRL so the Premiership odds are in their favour but over the years Melbourne Storm and Brisbane Broncos have managed to string Premierships together and Canberra and the NQ Cowboys also play their share of finals. NRL boss Peter V'Landys has been fielding the possibility of the 2023 NRL Grand Final being played in Melbourne or in Brisbane. I cannot imagine Gillion McLachlan suggesting a move away from the MCG.

 

[Doctor Feel]

The ball is the same size and shape for both teams. Both sides have 22 players and one sub.

Any inequality is conspiracy theory and those that waste time on conspiracy theories put themselves at a psychological disadvantage.

This thread is crap.

Genius

 

[FishingRick04]

Yes that is true and the Victorian Clubs have a number of other factors in their favour.

The go home factor plus the fact that the majority of players drafted are Victorian means the lure of Melbourne is strong. In last year's draft 8 of the top 10 players were Victorian. The chances are some of these palyers will eventually finish up playing for one of the big Melbourne clubs. If Cadman or Humphrey are any good how long before they want a move back to Victoria?

The lop sided draw is also a factor. In 2019 Richmond played their last 7 minor round games at the MCG. Imagine the bleating from Victoria if an interstate club had i'st last 7 games at home then lined up for a Grand Final on their home ground.

Pandemics aside the Grand Final is always played at the MCG and that has to be an advantage to Melbourne based sides.

I guess it gets down to the fact that the so called AFL is really only an extended VFL with the interstate sides there to give the competition national status.

I also follow the NRL and the percieved big state bias seems to be unique to the AFL competition. Maybe it is because in the NRL Queensland win their share of State of Origin and Melbourne Storm have been dominant. Statistically there are more NSW teams in the NRL so the Premiership odds are in their favour but over the years Melbourne Storm and Brisbane Broncos have managed to string Premierships together and Canberra and the NQ Cowboys also play their share of finals. NRL boss Peter V'Landys has been fielding the possibility of the 2023 NRL Grand Final being played in Melbourne or in Brisbane. I cannot imagine Gillion McLachlan suggesting a move away from the MCG.

Corruption exists everywhere. Corruption isn’t conspiracy theory. Look at the statistical discrepancies plus the facts of the past eg review in 06, Vic protectionism, biased contracts etc

 

[1954]

The absolute reaming the Swannies got from the scumps in the 2016 gf against the Bulldogs was an absolute stand out for Vic bias, and I suspect if any non Vic team had played against Melbourne ( even though they wouldn't have needed any help ) a few years back they may have copped a similar reaming, which leaves St Kilda as the last of the `traditional' VFL clubs with the longest premiership drought, so if they make it to a gf again it could be very interesting to see how it would be adjudicated if a non Vic club was their opponent.

 

[tribey]

West Coast supporters are the most numerous and hate the Vic bias more ferociously than any other set of fans. That's where this movement would have to start. West Coast have the financial might to push it as well.

Should be taking cues from the way India has become the political epicentre of cricket.

West Coast and Adelaide alone is a fearsome axis, let alone combined with Port, Sydney, Brisbane, Freo, et al.

 

[Lefti93]

The ball is the same size and shape for both teams. Both sides have 22 players and one sub.

Any inequality is conspiracy theory and those that waste time on conspiracy theories put themselves at a psychological disadvantage.

This thread is crap.

Nah, it's relevant the competition is totally lopsided and dogshit. Everyone has been silent for too long in accepting it, and don't want to upset AFL house to stay out of trouble.

 

[Lefti93]

Lol at the term 'interstate teams'. Sums it up right there.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Port Adelaide has always done things others consider impossible.

If we had an above average coach we probably win another 2 flags in the last decade. No bias involved. That's on us.

Also there are very, very few flags that don't have some sort of "asterisk hanging over them", including the Victorian ones.
Brisbane: Super merger
Sydney: COLA
Geelong: Dank and F-S, then stand rule
Bullflogs: Umpire cheating
Hawthorn: MRP corruption
Melbourne: Tanking
Richmond: The first one had MRP corruption

Port Adelaide had our asterisk flag set up in 2020 with the shortened quarters that perfectly suited us. We still ****ed it up.