Winning a premiership as a non-Vic side?

[tribey]

Port Adelaide had our asterisk flag set up in 2020 with the shortened quarters that perfectly suited us. We still ****ed it up.

• shortened quarters
• being able to sleep in our own beds and live and train freely after a certain date
• being able to play at home in front of actual crowds (limited though they were)

how do you f%#k that up? twice?!

 

[melanChronic]

Should be taking cues from the way India has become the political epicentre of cricket.

West Coast and Adelaide alone is a fearsome axis, let alone combined with Port, Sydney, Brisbane, Freo, et al.

Just need to carve out a window for the WAFLX so Patty Cripps et al. can come home and shower crowds with Zooper goals.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

• shortened quarters
• being able to sleep in our own beds and live and train freely after a certain date
• being able to play at home in front of actual crowds (limited though they were)

how do you f%#k that up? twice?!

My theory with Covid affected seasons meant less training = less influence from coaches on our players = more instinctive football

 

[Janus]

I've said this before - it's not non-Victorian vs Victorian.

It's Foxtel vs Channel 7. In brackets are the number of grand finals attended and then grand finals won since the formation of the AFL in 1992.

Channel 7 teams

Adelaide (3 - 2)
Brisbane (4 - 3)
Carlton (3 - 1)
Collingwood (5 - 1)
Essendon (3 - 2)
Geelong (9 - 4)
Richmond (3 - 3)
Sydney (7 - 2)
West Coast (6 - 3)

Of a possible 62 GF berths, these teams have filled 43 of them - 69.4%

Of a possible 31 premierships, these teams have won 21 of them - 67.7%

Foxtel teams

Fremantle (1 - 0)
Gold Coast (0 - 0)
Greater Western Sydney (1 - 0)
Hawthorn (5 - 4) - due to the inclusion of Gold Coast and GWS...Hawthorn will never be strong as they were again
Melbourne (2 - 1)
North Melbourne (3 - 2)
Port Adelaide (2 - 1)
St Kilda (3 - 0)
Western Bulldogs (2 - 1)

Let's ignore Hawthorn as an anomaly for the moment. As I said, their strength came from the inclusion of GWS and Gold Coast at the time when they were coming into their peak, coupled with the draft pick concessions they got for being s**t...which meant they along with Geelong could go through a renaissance of being strong in an equalisation era.

Of a possible 62 GF berths, these teams have filled 14 of them - 22.6%. With Hawthorn included, 30.6%.

Of a possible 31 premierships, these teams have won 5 of them - 16.1%. With Hawthorn included, 32.3%

 

[Papa G]

West Coast supporters are the most numerous and hate the Vic bias more ferociously than any other set of fans. That's where this movement would have to start. West Coast have the financial might to push it as well.

Always felt West Coast stay pretty much cocooned in their own WA bubble. Money is no object for them, so they don't really grumble about the other things the rest of us do. Timeslots, exposure, Media coverage. They don't really care about these things. Whilst they are wildly Parochial, due to the absolute testicle licking they get from all facets inside the WA Cocoon, they kind of don't feel any criticism, because nobody really comments about them in the Vic media. They also get well looked after by the umps at home as well, something which we can only dream of, so their sense of persecution on that front is dimished. Just get the feeling West Coast consider themselves that Big and that important, they can't be bothered banding together for the good of the rest of the "interstate" Teams.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Always felt West Coast stay pretty much cocooned in their own WA bubble. Money is no object for them, so they don't really grumble about the other things the rest of us do. Timeslots, exposure, Media coverage. They don't really care about these things. Whilst they are wildly Parochial, due to the absolute testicle licking they get from all facets inside the WA Cocoon, they kind of don't feel any criticism, because nobody really comments about them in the Vic media. They also get well looked after by the umps at home as well, something which we can only dream of, so their sense of persecution on that front is dimished. Just get the feeling West Coast consider themselves that Big and that important, they can't be bothered banding together for the good of the rest of the "interstate" Teams.

Don't get me wrong, West Coast are treated like infallible royalty in WA and arguably no club bar Carlton huffs it's own farts to the same degree. But in their mind, because they're the biggest club, they should be running dynasty onto dynasty, and it's only Vic bias that stops them. The club actively play this aspect up to whip the fans into a frenzy.

The entire football media being Vic based and Vic focused is a big part of it.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Always felt West Coast stay pretty much cocooned in their own WA bubble. Money is no object for them, so they don't really grumble about the other things the rest of us do. Timeslots, exposure, Media coverage. They don't really care about these things. Whilst they are wildly Parochial, due to the absolute testicle licking they get from all facets inside the WA Cocoon, they kind of don't feel any criticism, because nobody really comments about them in the Vic media. They also get well looked after by the umps at home as well, something which we can only dream of, so their sense of persecution on that front is dimished. Just get the feeling West Coast consider themselves that Big and that important, they can't be bothered banding together for the good of the rest of the "interstate" Teams.

They don't see themselves as banding together with the rest of the interstate teams.

They consider themselves the crusader and leader against the Vic teams, with us and the other interstate teams assets that can be used in the fight.

 

[Macca19]

While I absolutely acknowledge how stacked the deck is against clubs like ours at large, when you qualify for back-to-back home Prelims, with the added incentive of the decider being played on neutral territory both years, you should probably win at least one.

This.

Port screwed the pooch in 02, 03, 20 and 21. Even though it wasnt at home, can probably add in kicking 2.9 in the first of the 14 prelim too.

Adelaide did the same in 05, 06, 12. Freo have done it a few times too.

You just have to win those games when you are in the box seat

 

[Lefti93]

Don't get me wrong, West Coast are treated like infallible royalty in WA and arguably no club bar Carlton huffs it's own farts to the same degree. But in their mind, because they're the biggest club, they should be running dynasty onto dynasty, and it's only Vic bias that stops them. The club actively play this aspect up to whip the fans into a frenzy.

The entire football media being Vic based and Vic focused is a big part of it.

That's funny, I knew a WCE fan who came over to live in Adelaide. After talking footy for 2 minutes with him, he wouldn't stop complaining about how the Adelaide media don't cover the WA teams in the news... Probably because no wants to hear about them..

 

[tribey]

This.

Port screwed the pooch in 02, 03, 20 and 21. Even though it wasnt at home, can probably add in kicking 2.9 in the first of the 14 prelim too.

Adelaide did the same in 05, 06, 12. Freo have done it a few times too.

You just have to win those games when you are in the box seat

Even 2005.

The planned austerity and mission accomplished’ attitude combined with a cavalcade of self-inflicted wounds as long as Gheorghe Muresan’s arm, and were still within a kick of the minor premier at halftime of a Semi, with a Prelim trip to a ground with a better than 50% record in the offing.

“It’s a low-scoring arm wrestle, let’s start Tredders on the wing!”

 

[dirty2]

The whole of the AFL just smells fishy.

 

[agmsy]

within reasonable statistical boundaries.

The only caveat to this is that the AFL, like many sports leagues, has pretty significant autocorrelation. Results of one season are reasonable predictors of results in the following season, or the one following that.

Many of the issues discussed here (and some not yet raised) absolutely amount to Victorian bias if the discussion proceeds from first principles, but the trends we are observing may not yet (and, depending on future results, may not ever) amount to compelling statistical evidence of Victorian bias.

That said: f*** the MCG as the now-and-forever GF venue, and f*** a bunch of the irrelevant minnow suburban Melbourne clubs whose expiration date was about 60 years ago.

 

[Interstater]

It's time for the AFL to split into 2 divisions.
20 teams, play each of the other 9 two times each.
2 team relegation/promotion.

That allows for the breaking of the Ch7/Foxtel factor.

 

[Jojay]

They destroyed any notion of this being a truly national comp with that mcg contract for the next 50 yrs or whatever it is.

 

[dirty2]

I hate the grand final is at the MCG.

I believe it should go to the home ground of the highest rank team in the grand final.

 

[Andre]

Waiting for the royal commission like the Vic clubs got after 2006. The fact that there is complete silence about 15 years of Victorian dominance tells you everything you need to know about how much the AFL cares about the non-Vic clubs.

At the very least, the 8 non-Vic clubs need to band together and vote and lobby as a block.

This is the big one. The Vic clubs are great at sticking together as a block when an issue is going to affect one of them, but doesn't really do anything for the others. The non-Vic sides they are all 'Yeah, that's probably unfair, but it's not my club' and let the Vics divide and conquer us every time.

I'll tie this in to the Prison Bars. If the other Non-Vic clubs as a group could all stop looking in the mirror and going 'Whose a sexy club then?' for 5 minutes, they'd see that this is THE perfect issue to assert that the non-Vic clubs, their history and their self-worth is every bit as important as the Victorian clubs. They should be able to see that by saying Port's history and point of view is not as important as Collingwoods, that NONE of them are as important as ANY Victorian club. Stand up for us and our history and they by extension stand up for themselves, their history and their right to everything the Vic clubs get. Adelaide (surprise, surprise) are actively against us, once again reflexively anti-Port, not seeing it that they are saying ALL SA football history is worthless, not just Port's and by extension both SA clubs, yes, them as well, are second class. They should be our strongest backers, but cracked the shits at us potentially wearing the PB's in their home Showdown and would be happier if we couldn't in our own.

Unless we reach a day where non-Vic clubs at the minimum equal the number of Vic clubs, we are always going to have the system rigged against us, but even within this rigged system it's much worse than it should be, because of apathy and in-fighting amongst the non-Vic clubs.

 

[Progressive Aggresion]

Meh

I'm not personally one to jump on the Vic Bias wagon. We had an opportunity to play non - MCG Grand Finals in 20/21 along with Brisbane and we still stuffed it up.

Adelaide lost fair and square in 2017 and it's not the AFL's fault that their incompetent board greenlighted the Collective Minds bs and ruined any opportunity for future contention.

I'm sure whatever potential bias issues that exist would be much better addressed under a new AFL CEO. Still waiting for the s**t eating Gillon administration to move out so we can actually get a Tassie team deal done and stop wasting money away on the other expansion teams.

 

[MrChow]

This.

Port screwed the pooch in 02, 03, 20 and 21. Even though it wasnt at home, can probably add in kicking 2.9 in the first of the 14 prelim too.

Adelaide did the same in 05, 06, 12. Freo have done it a few times too.

You just have to win those games when you are in the box seat

Yet the non-Vic teams can’t win any of these games, ever and claim a GF? (Except WC, and excluding the super lists from entering the competition/mergers)

You’re looking at the non-Vic teams saying they had put themselves in a great position to have a crack, yet there is always one or two Vic teams that ‘for what ever reason’ had a better team, personnel, performance on the day at the end of the season.

So say having a cheap father-son like Hawkins or Ablett is worth 2 goals a game, or your able to recruit a key defender like Steven May from GC feeder club who stops 2 goals a game, or by the end of a long season you have only had to travel 5 times for the year, is worth 2 goals a game with run in the legs, less mental fatigue)

Flip the script. Does PAFC with Tom Hawkins (instead of Nathan Krakouer, who went 2 picks earlier), and with 3% more run in the legs from not travelling as much beat Hawthorn or Richmond in our recent prelims - do we then go on and win a flag?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

The real Port would have relished the challenge and the opportunity to stick it up those who said it can't be done.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Ah12]

Its the MCG factor for mine. How many games do Collingwood and Richmond play there? 14 for Collingwood this year and I remember a year they played 17. Richmond one year played the last 7 rounds of the H&A season at the MCG.

Is it the only sports league in the world where the grand final/final is decided at the same ground every year? I believe it is.

 

[El Zorro]

Its the MCG factor for mine. How many games do Collingwood and Richmond play there? 14 for Collingwood this year and I remember a year they played 17. Richmond one year played the last 7 rounds of the H&A season at the MCG.

Is it the only sports league in the world where the grand final/final is decided at the same ground every year? I believe it is.

The FA cup in Wembley, but I don't think it creates such an imbalance.

 

[TeeKray]

Brisbane are just as bad as us, maybe even worse. People talk about us bottling 2020 - well they got thumped in a home prelim by Geelong with a literal once ever home grand final up for grabs. Talent is irrelevant, they can't handle the pressure and will never go near winning anything.

 

[Grave Danger]

The FA cup in Wembley, but I don't think it creates such an imbalance.

Yes, apart from being in London it's no team's home ground (other than when Spurs's new stadium was being built, and of course they still didn't win any trophies there).

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Yet the non-Vic teams can’t win any of these games, ever and claim a GF? (Except WC, and excluding the super lists from entering the competition/mergers)

You’re looking at the non-Vic teams saying they had put themselves in a great position to have a crack, yet there is always one or two Vic teams that ‘for what ever reason’ had a better team, personnel, performance on the day at the end of the season.

So say having a cheap father-son like Hawkins or Ablett is worth 2 goals a game, or your able to recruit a key defender like Steven May from GC feeder club who stops 2 goals a game, or by the end of a long season you have only had to travel 5 times for the year, is worth 2 goals a game with run in the legs, less mental fatigue)

Flip the script. Does PAFC with Tom Hawkins (instead of Nathan Krakouer, who went 2 picks earlier), and with 3% more run in the legs from not travelling as much beat Hawthorn or Richmond in our recent prelims - do we then go on and win a flag?

You're missing the big point here.

Tom Hawkins was drafted with pick 41 in 2006.

Geelong had pick 7 in 2006, they took Joel Selwood. So without the cheap Father-son option they don't have Joel Selwood.

Gary Ablett Jnr was drafted in 2001 with pick 40. Jimmy Bartell, James Kelly and Stevie Johnson were selected by Geelong with picks ahead of him.

And especially with the modern day bidding that results in clubs giving up multiple round of picks to cover. If they have to use their first round pick on Ablett they don't get Brownlow medalist Bartell.

Thats two very signicant players out of Geelong's squads.

 

[Duck Farmer]

My theory with Covid affected seasons meant less training = less influence from coaches on our players = more instinctive football

Yeah, Hinkley couldn't come within 10m of the players.