Science/Environment Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - HCQ doesn't work - Part 3

[Chief]

This thread is continued in Part 4:

Science/Environment - Wuhan Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Part 4

This is part 3 of this thread. Part 2 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/wuhan-coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-declared-part-2.1238728/ --------------- It looks like it began in wild animals being sold for human consumption, and once again the consequences of this stupidity is...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Clems Knee]

Do people around here starting to catch on this is a scam yet? Curious.

What is your first language? Fortran? basic?
Curious.

 

[maryjames]

What is your first language? Fortran? basic?
Curious.

I speak 5 languages and lived in many countries.. now I’m stuck in bs.

 

[Snake_Baker]

So it's not a magic highlighter pen?

My adversaries are so lame that I have officially become a meme.

 

[maryjames]

So how many children have died of this virus.

What’s this crap.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Jesus. H. Christ.

What monstrosity thought that up?

 

[maryjames]

Jesus. H. Christ.

What monstrosity thought that up?

I know.. absolutely insane.

 

[yebiga]

For your pleasure - quite a piece of work

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/274298/9789241514507-eng.pdf?ua=1

 

[Baltimore Jack]

208 cases today in Vic

17 Deaths

 

[FireKrakouer]

I haven't kept up with this thread so apologies if it's been covered, but why are St Vinnie's doing an HCQ study if it's been debunked?

From what I've read (happy to be corrected) is that it is ineffective for hospitalised Covid patients, but possibly quite effective as a prophylactic or as a treatment early on in the illness when symptoms are minimal?

 

[andrewmillman]

I haven't kept up with this thread so apologies if it's been covered, but why are St Vinnie's doing an HCQ study if it's been debunked?

From what I've read (happy to be corrected) is that it is ineffective for hospitalised Covid patients, but possibly quite effective as a prophylactic or as a treatment early on in the illness when symptoms are minimal?

Maybe the health sector has realised their main aim is to save lives, not to undermine Trump by refusing to test his drug?

 

[FireKrakouer]

Maybe the health sector has realised their main aim is to save lives, not to undermine Trump by refusing to test his drug?

I suppose the author of this thread title has qualifications exceeding those of the virologists in the St V's fever clinic

If I were a betting man I'd tip that hcq may have value as a prophylactic or early stage treatment, but has been shown ineffective in studies where it has been used as a late stage treatment on extremely ill hospitalised Covid patients.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I suppose the author of this thread title has qualifications exceeding those of the virologists in the St V's fever clinic

If I were a betting man I'd tip that hcq may have value as a prophylactic or early stage treatment, but has been shown ineffective in studies where it has been used as a late stage treatment on extremely ill hospitalised Covid patients.

So you think HCQ is a barrier - kind of like a mask or condom?

 

[andrewmillman]

I suppose the author of this thread title has qualifications exceeding those of the virologists in the St V's fever clinic

If I were a betting man I'd tip that hcq may have value as a prophylactic or early stage treatment, but has been shown ineffective in studies where it has been used as a late stage treatment on extremely ill hospitalised Covid patients.

Yeah its a good point, can a moderator please remove the misleading info in the thread title? Its currently full of 'fake news'.
Perhaps change it to something factual like "HCQ is subject to trials in Melbourne assessing its effectiveness".

 

[FireKrakouer]

So you think HCQ is a barrier - kind of like a mask or condom?

Not a physical barrier obviously. I have never pretended to have any expertise in virology, I am merely speculating on why it continues to be studied on front line workers despite Guardian shrieking "IT IS DEADLY IT DONT WORK - TRUMP LIED PEOPLE DIED" and the usual suspects parroting this without question.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Not a physical barrier obviously. I have never pretended to have any expertise in virology, I am merely speculating on why it continues to be studied on front line workers despite Guardian shrieking "IT IS DEADLY IT DONT WORK - TRUMP LIED PEOPLE DIED" and the usual suspects parroting this without question.

Do you think there are any links/parallels between this, and the larger war on drugs? Or perhaps the USA opioid epidemic?

Is HCQ legal in Portugal?

 

[Frank Bunn]

So you think HCQ is a barrier - kind of like a mask or condom?

PrEP drugs are currently being used instead of condoms to prevent the transmission of HIV.

 

[Deliverance]

I haven't kept up with this thread so apologies if it's been covered, but why are St Vinnie's doing an HCQ study if it's been debunked?

From what I've read (happy to be corrected) is that it is ineffective for hospitalised Covid patients, but possibly quite effective as a prophylactic or as a treatment early on in the illness when symptoms are minimal?

I think because since January the MSM has conditioned people to believe that daily case numbers and deaths are the only metric worth following.

 

[BlueE]

How did we get to the she Skipper study?
In any case it showed no benefit.

I don't think Mr Trump is telling the truth. - https://www.factcheck.org/2020/08/trumps-missteps-on-covid-19-mortality/ The US is not doing OK. If that's OK I would hate to see terrible.

The Arshad study is the 'Henry Ford' one isn't it? It's a piece of crap and is discredited. IIRC 77% of HCQ treatment group got steroids and 36% of the no HCQ treatment patients got steroids, there is your mortality difference, patients who got steroids, more survived. No need to invoke snake oil. We know steroids reduce mortality in sick patients with Covid19 by a third. There are other problems with patient matching, too. The authors fail to disclose this flaw, as they should.

I can't follow the other 'article' because it's not an article, it's a letter to a journal. I can't discuss it with any confidence as the authors don't provide the data needed to understand and evaluate it. It becomes essentially meaningless, noise.

I don't think US is doing OK either. But Trump was able to produce a graph (available anywhere but the one he showed to that Aussie journalist) that correctly showed when you use the ratio or covid recoveries to positive tests the US has a high number or recoveries. I was just making the point that I don't think this is a valuable indicator like you suggested and think adjust deaths per million is far more valuable (as used n the graph I posted) applied to different countries as to whether treatments are working or not.

I posted data from the Monforte et al observational study which shows significant improvement using GCQ and HCQ +Az.

Fauci say that the Henry Ford Health System study or Michigan was "flawed" because it didn't rely on a randomized, placebo controlled study to determine the drug's effectiveness, while the Drs involved were saddened by the drug's politicalisation.

"Our promising Henry Ford treatment study should be considered as another important contribution to the other studies of hydroxychloroquine that describes what the authors found in our patient population," Munkarah and Kalkanis wrote. "We — along with all doctors and scientists — eagerly support the need for randomized clinical trials."

The doctors emphasized the importance of "scientific debate" in advancing the knowledge of drugs, but noted the politicization of hydroxychloroquine is an large obstacle to the process.

The findings have been highly analyzed and peer-reviewed. We attribute our findings that differ from other studies to early treatment, and part of a combination of interventions that were done in supportive care of patients, including careful cardiac monitoring. Our dosing also differed from other studies not showing a benefit of the drug. And other studies are either not peer reviewed, have limited numbers of patients, different patient populations or other differences from our patients.”

Dr. Marcus Zervos, co-author of study, division head of Infectious Disease for Henry Ford Health System

However I'm making the point that the RCT that are being relied on as "gold standard" are not and there are many observational and case study reports that are far better designed with The "Solidarity" (and "Recovery") study giving toxic doses of HCQ more than 4 times the recommended doses and twice the known toxic doses, while Skipper et al Minnesota trial was an anonymous online survey, without Dr evaluation, that only had 34% testing positive in the treatment group (and 58% testing positive or having symptoms). These are quoted that because they are RCT's that HCQ is either are dangerous (correct because it's given at toxic levels) or ineffective. This is wrong because of the study design which is worse that any observational or case study reports I've seen.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So how many children have died of this virus.

What’s this crap.

View attachment 942620

Its an ugly look but what's wrong with it.
The whole point of this sort of thing is to STOP SPREADING. Your comment suggests that you just don't get it.

Do you think some of these kids might have an asthmatic parent , or a elderly grandparent living at home.

 

[BlueE]

I suppose the author of this thread title has qualifications exceeding those of the virologists in the St V's fever clinic

If I were a betting man I'd tip that hcq may have value as a prophylactic or early stage treatment, but has been shown ineffective in studies where it has been used as a late stage treatment on extremely ill hospitalised Covid patients.

Hope you took the odds on that as you've been reading the studies!!

What's more, research on HCQ suggests it's a vehicle for Zn to enter and attack the viral cells.

So the HCQ + Zn + antibiotic and the Invertmectin + Zn + antibiotic regimes could be working because they both find successful ways for Zn to enter the cells and attack the virus. Invertmetin is an anti parasitic drug and presumably successfully penetrates bowel cells to deliver Zn.

Theoretically the same result could be achieved with a chelated Zn supplement + elemental Zn + antibiotic.

 

[BlueE]

Its an ugly look but what's wrong with it.
The whole point of this sort of thing is to STOP SPREADING. Your comment suggests that you just don't get it.

Do you think some of these kids might have an asthmatic parent , or a elderly grandparent living at home.

West Australian teachers union were concerned when our Premier ordered all teachers and students back to face to face teaching at the start of T2. (Private schools said no, we're prepared for 6 weeks online and McGowan said you have a week to get back to the classroom or he'll pull State funding, so they did).

In return beside promising extra cleaning regimes during the McGowan extended an already running adult DETECT Snapshot Program, which tested asymptomatic adults from a selection of employment groups, partnering with the Telethon Kids Institute to 3000 school students in 80 schools, including the 40 participating in the swab testing and a further 40 from across the State.

The worry was there could be asymptomatic students that could pass the virus to teachers or each other. It was random and voluntary in participants g school and parents had to be present for the testing.

Out of the 3000 students tested there were zero positives. Another 3000 teachers and support staff also tested as part of the adult Snapshot DETECT which has a total of 18,000 tests and had zero positives.

The evidence from WA with large sample groups of adults and children, clearly suggests there are no asymptomatic CoVid 19 patients.

But are there in Victoria? Maybe? If so, I'd strongly suggest that if Victoria are finding asymptomatic CoVid 19 positive patents, its because of the notoriously unreliable RT-PCR test kits they're using that are found to test positive to other corona viruses from colds.

Many false positives around the world have been found using these kits. WA do not use these tests and strangely the TGA in Australia have announced a post-market review of serological tests (below), but NOT RT-PCR used in Victoria.

Nucleic acid detection tests - using qPCR to detect SARS-CoV-2 viral (Ribonucleic acid) RNA; and
Serology tests - to detect IgM and/or IgG antibodies against SARS-CoV-2.

 

[yebiga]

Don’t worry - It’s just an exercise

https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/274298/9789241514507-eng.pdf?ua=1

 

[JoondalupJ]

Thanks Capitalism.

What about Mao, was he a capitalist? He starved half his nation. But that is another story.

 

[JoondalupJ]

West Australian teachers union were concerned when our Premier ordered all teachers and students back to face to face teaching at the start of T2. (Private schools said no, we're prepared for 6 weeks online and McGowan said you have a week to get back to the classroom or he'll pull State funding, so they did).

In return beside promising extra cleaning regimes during the McGowan extended an already running adult DETECT Snapshot Program, which tested asymptomatic adults from a selection of employment groups, partnering with the Telethon Kids Institute to 3000 school students in 80 schools, including the 40 participating in the swab testing and a further 40 from across the State.

The worry was there could be asymptomatic students that could pass the virus to teachers or each other. It was random and voluntary in participants g school and parents had to be present for the testing.

Out of the 3000 students tested there were zero positives. Another 3000 teachers and support staff also tested as part of the adult Snapshot DETECT which has a total of 18,000 tests and had zero positives.

The evidence from WA with large sample groups of adults and children, clearly suggests there are no asymptomatic CoVid 19 patients.

But are there in Victoria? Maybe? If so, I'd strongly suggest that if Victoria are finding asymptomatic CoVid 19 positive patents, its because of the notoriously unreliable RT-PCR test kits they're using that are found to test positive to other corona viruses from colds.

Many false positives around the world have been found using these kits. WA do not use these tests and strangely the TGA in Australia have announced a post-market review of serological tests (below), but NOT RT-PCR used in Victoria.

Nucleic acid detection tests - using qPCR to detect SARS-CoV-2 viral (Ribonucleic acid) RNA; and
Serology tests - to detect IgM and/or IgG antibodies against SARS-CoV-2.

Testing and kits have to be spot on for sure. Then results and educated opinions and then real findings can be made.

No one knows whose right or wrong in all this most of the time, but every avenue has to be travelled.

And McGowan is loving his power play, but that kind of individual he is , he's a politician, the filthiest profession of them all, because you can only believe them part of the time, and that is humanities flaw. Especially with lock downs and border shutting and pandemics?

 

[Crankitup]

Down, but not out: hydroxychloroquine could still have a role against COVID-19

Ongoing research may yet prove that the 4-aminoquinolones are an effective prophylactic medication in those at risk of developing COVID-19.

www.pharmaceutical-journal.com

Why doctors and researchers need access to hydroxychloroquine

Studies show the medicine, which has become a political football, works best when given early to COVID-19 patients.

thehill.com