Kangaroos Tasmanian Academy

[worthy]

Find me any other ranking that has him that high. In fact, find me any ranking that had him in the ND based on his games at the championships or games in the NEAFL before he ran fast at draft camp. With about as much respect as is due, you don't know s**t from clay when it comes to academy players. You probably couldn't even name them off the top of your head but you read one over enthusiastic response from one observer based on athletic results and you're taking it as gospel because it suits your argument.

What a load of shite, as usual.

Sheahan rated him top 40, and when it comes to young talent, you in fact don't know "s**t from clay" in comparison to Sheahan.
Sheahans view is supported by the Fremantle football club who offered pick 32 for Hiscox.
Now, if you're obtuse enough to think that Freo only offered pick 32 to make Syd use pick 36, then there's no helping you.
You do realise that if Freo offer pick 32 and Syd don't use their next pick, that Freo are committed and can't back out ????

To summarise:
Sheahan rates Hiscox top 40.
Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32
Sydney rate him high enough to use pick 36
You rate him a Rookie pick

Which one sounds ridiculous to you ?????????

Who doesn't know "s**t from clay" ? Sheahan, Freo, Syd or Kummerspeck ???

 

[Furn2]

Find me any other ranking that has him that high. In fact, find me any ranking that had him in the ND based on his games at the championships or games in the NEAFL before he ran fast at draft camp. With about as much respect as is due, you don't know s**t from clay when it comes to academy players. You probably couldn't even name them off the top of your head but you read one over enthusiastic response from one observer based on athletic results and you're taking it as gospel because it suits your argument.

Freo picked him with pick 32.

 

[Kummerspeck]

Now, if you're obtuse enough to think that Freo only offered pick 32 to make Syd use pick 36, then there's no helping you.
You do realise that if Freo offer pick 32 and Syd don't use their next pick, that Freo are committed and can't back out ????

So instead of finding other rankings you're relying on a "do you really think" scenario based on a team not refusing to bid in a system where a bid has never been refused. There were three academy players, all of them were getting bids in the ND to make sure the Swans used their picks. The way teams have done with almost every bid since the system started.

 

[worthy]

So instead of finding other rankings you're relying on a "do you really think" scenario based on a team not refusing to bid in a system where a bid has never been refused. There were three academy players, all of them were getting bids in the ND to make sure the Swans used their picks. The way teams have done with almost every bid since the system started.

Certainly not relying on "do you really think", i'm actually relying on facts, you're relying on what exactly??

To summarise:
Sheahan rates Hiscox top 40.
Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32
Sydney rate him high enough to use pick 36
You rate him a Rookie pick
Which one sounds ridiculous to you ?????????
Who doesn't know "s**t from clay" ? Sheahan, Freo, Syd or Kummerspeck ???

 

[worthy]

So instead of finding other rankings you're relying on a "do you really think" scenario based on a team not refusing to bid in a system where a bid has never been refused. There were three academy players, all of them were getting bids in the ND to make sure the Swans used their picks. The way teams have done with almost every bid since the system started.

7 NSW academy players were taken in the draft.

 

[Kummerspeck]

Certainly not relying on "do you really think", i'm actually relying on facts,

You're posting events then adding your thoughts on why they occurred. That isn't a fact. It's no more accurate or true than me saying that Freo only bid to force a high pick. Your logic was "you're obtuse if you think that", mine is "they did it because a bid has never been refused in the history of the bidding system". Sydney knew their first pick was gone and they were going to use whatever picks came for Hiscox and Davis.
A fact would be something like "Hiscox wasn't mentioned as a ND pick in his first draft year last year or at any point this year throughout the TAC cup or NEAFL until a fast 3k time trial, when one observer ranked him top 40.

7 academy players were taken in the draft.

Three swans academy players.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

You're posting events then adding your thoughts on why they occurred. That isn't a fact. It's no more accurate or true than me saying that Freo only bid to force a high pick. Your logic was "you're obtuse if you think that", mine is "they did it because a bid has never been refused in the history of the bidding system". Sydney knew their first pick was gone and they were going to use whatever picks came for Hiscox and Davis.
A fact would be something like "Hiscox wasn't mentioned as a ND pick in his first draft year last year or at any point this year throughout the TAC cup or NEAFL until a fast 3k time trial, when one observer ranked him top 40.

Three swans academy players.

Freo were prepared to take Hiscox with pick 32. That's a fact. If the swans rated him as a rookie selection, they wouldn't have taken him with pick 36, they would have let Freo take him.

 

[worthy]

You're posting events then adding your thoughts on why they occurred. That isn't a fact. It's no more accurate or true than me saying that Freo only bid to force a high pick. Your logic was "you're obtuse if you think that", mine is "they did it because a bid has never been refused in the history of the bidding system". Sydney knew their first pick was gone and they were going to use whatever picks came for Hiscox and Davis.
A fact would be something like "Hiscox wasn't mentioned as a ND pick in his first draft year last year or at any point this year throughout the TAC cup or NEAFL until a fast 3k time trial, when one observer ranked him top 40.

Three swans academy players.

Incorrect
I'm posting facts:
Fact 1. Sheahan rated Hiscox top 40 - Fact, you are the one posting your thoughts on why that occurred.- yes???
Fact 2. Freo offered pick 32 for Hiscox - fact, you are posting your thoughts on why that occurred - yes ???
Fact 3. Syd used pick 36 - you are posting your thoughts on why they did that, which is something along the lines of, because that's what always happens.- yes ???

To summarise:
Sheahan rates Hiscox top 40.
Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32
Sydney rate him high enough to use pick 36
You rate him a Rookie pick
Which one sounds ridiculous to you ?????????
Who doesn't know "s**t from clay" ? Sheahan, Freo, Syd or Kummerspeck ???

 

[Kummerspeck]

Freo were prepared to take Hiscox with pick 32. That's a fact.

Freo bid pick 32. That's a fact. Anything you say about why is not fact.

 

[Furn2]

So Sydney used pick 36 on a player they didn't rate any better than a rookie now ?

The delusion knows no limits up there.

Freo could have bid on any random academy kid and Sydney would have matched it.

 

[Kummerspeck]

Fact 2. Freo offered pick 32 for Hiscox
Fact 3. Syd used pick 36

Sorry, I missed it, where did you post just these in isolation? You paired them with statements saying it happened because those clubs rated him in that bracket. "Freo bid pick 32 because they rated him there" is no more fact than "Freo bid pick 32 to force Sydney's bid".

So, leaving out your interpretations of the actions at the academy bidding, do you have anything else apart from a single grouping of players?

Freo could have bid on any random academy kid and Sydney would have matched it.

You don't just bid on random academy kids.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Freo bid pick 32. That's a fact. Anything you say about why is not fact.

It's a fact that if Sydney did not use pick 36 on him, Freo would have to take him at 32. Are u so blinded that u cannot see what is in front of you? I don't see why Sydney can't trade up to get the player they want ala Geelong and the rest of the comp. If Sydney are taking Hiscox at 36, they must rate him as one of the best 36 players in the draft or someone that fills a need on their list.

 

[worthy]

You're posting events then adding your thoughts on why they occurred. That isn't a fact. It's no more accurate or true than me saying that Freo only bid to force a high pick. Your logic was "you're obtuse if you think that", mine is "they did it because a bid has never been refused in the history of the bidding system". Sydney knew their first pick was gone and they were going to use whatever picks came for Hiscox and Davis.
A fact would be something like "Hiscox wasn't mentioned as a ND pick in his first draft year last year or at any point this year throughout the TAC cup or NEAFL until a fast 3k time trial, when one observer ranked him top 40.

Three swans academy players.

This also does not stack up, previous "fast" 3km time trials don't guarantee anything:
3km time trials at draft camp
2005 - winner Tom Rischbeith (9:30) a record at the time - Rookie pick 11
2007 - winner Joel Smouha - not drafted
2009 - winner Callan Geary - not drafted

Your rated due to fast 3km time trial is rubbish

 

[Kummerspeck]

This also does not stack up, previous "fast" 3km time trials don't guarantee anything:
3km time trials at draft camp
2005 - winner Tom Rischbeith (9:30) a record at the time - Rookie pick 11
2007 - winner Joel Smouha - not drafted
2009 - winner Callan Geary - not drafted

Your rated due to fast 3km time trial is rubbish

Regardless of what you're trying to explain here, using three results out of the last 10 draft camps to base your argument on is a really bad method.

 

[worthy]

Sorry, I missed it, where did you post just these in isolation? You paired them with statements saying it happened because those clubs rated him in that bracket. "Freo bid pick 32 because they rated him there" is no more fact than "Freo bid pick 32 to force Sydney's bid".

So, leaving out your interpretations of the actions at the academy bidding, do you have anything else apart from a single grouping of players?

You don't just bid on random academy kids.

To summarise:
Sheahan rates Hiscox top 40.
Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32
Sydney rate him high enough to use pick 36
You rate him a Rookie pick
Which one sounds ridiculous to you ?????????
Who doesn't know "s**t from clay" ? Sheahan, Freo, Syd or Kummerspeck ???

 

[Kummerspeck]

snip

Yes, I read that. "Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32" isn't fact any more than "Freo bid pick 32 to force Sydney's bid".

 

[worthy]

Regardless of what you're trying to explain here, using three results out of the last 10 draft camps to base your argument on is a really bad method.

It wouldn't matter if I had a direct quote from Freo's recruiting manager stating they rated Hiscox at 32. You rate him a "rookie" pick, everyone else has no idea.

 

[worthy]

Yes, I read that. "Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32" isn't fact any more than "Freo bid pick 32 to force Sydney's bid".

To summarise:
Sheahan rates Hiscox top 40.
Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32
Sydney rate him high enough to use pick 36
You rate him a Rookie pick
Which one sounds ridiculous to you ?????????
Who doesn't know "s**t from clay" ? Sheahan, Freo, Syd or Kummerspeck ???

 

[Kummerspeck]

It wouldn't matter if I had a direct quote from Freo's recruiting manager stating they rated Hiscox at 32.

No, that would matter.

 

[worthy]

No, that would matter.

No, you would simply say "he's just saying that to hide the fact they only bid to force Syd's hand"

To summarise:
Sheahan rates Hiscox top 40.
Freo rate him high enough to use pick 32
Sydney rate him high enough to use pick 36
You rate him a Rookie pick
Which one sounds ridiculous to you ?????????
Who doesn't know "s**t from clay" ? Sheahan, Freo, Syd or Kummerspeck ???

 

[Kummerspeck]

No, you would simply say "he's just saying that to hide the fact they only bid to force Syd's hand"

No, I probably wouldn't. I would feel it would be likely, given Sydney committed to all three academy players regardless of what was bid, but I'd be stupid to say that as definite when I had nothing I could base it on that I could bring to the table.

 

[worthy]

No, I probably wouldn't. I would feel it would be likely, given Sydney committed to all three academy players regardless of what was bid, but I'd be stupid to say that as definite when I had nothing I could base it on that I could bring to the table.

Translation = yes, you are correct, I would think, and say that.

There is actually nothing that would change your opinion.

 

[The_Reaper]

The academy players ARE available to be nominated for selection by any other club hence Port Adelaide making the most of the situation and drafting two players from GWS Academy 2014. Swans paid unders for Heeney but overs for the round two they selected.

The academy players are available to other after a process which gives certain clubs first rights.

If West Coast had the same rights to lets say O'Meara you'd recognise it as the complete bullshit that it is.

We have clear evidence from this very thread topic that the AFL consider academies a massive advantage.

 

[Skeparovic]

Port drafted those players like anyone else, they didn't just get them despite another team wanting them who had a much earlier pick they were willing to use.

You are right in so far as what's implied by your comment (e.g that the swans are able to have an advantage over other teams by being able to match a bid that is several spots earlier than their own - 18 instead of 2). We're discussing alternative ideas however if you refer back to what my original post was in response to. Congrats on your team dominating GF it was a remarkable performance.

 

[Colonial]

The academy players are available to other after a process which gives certain clubs first rights.

If West Coast had the same rights to lets say O'Meara you'd recognise it as the complete bullshit that it is.

We have clear evidence from this very thread topic that the AFL consider academies a massive advantage.

just as traditional states have a clear advantage with the high percentage of home grown talent