Review 'Father Time' caught up with Cloke

[Saintly Viewed]

Bucks inherited the best centre half forward in the game, a free wheeler, who ran his opponent into the ground, was unstoppable when the ball was kicked into space for him to run onto and pushed his weary opponent around in contested situations. Bucks then turned him into an immobile stay at home full forward who wrestled with 3 opponents. The change wasn't about father time, it occurred the moment Bucks took over. Cloke was still good enough to have a great 2013, but I'm convinced that what could have been a great career was wasted by Bucks being obsessed with Cloke playing a stagnant, structural role rather than a free wheeling role. I expect a resurgence at the Dogs.

Ok

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Watching Cloke kick 5 against us in round 1 would really suck.

And then he'll go back to missing easily against other teams.
Can see it happening, his best game v us.

 

[jmac70]

Wait, what? I don't like what was said but wouldn't 'Father Time' come for athletes at different times in their lives?

Do you think Father Time has come for Cloke?

 

[regpies]

Let's not generalise.

Buddy, Pavlich, Kennedy and Reiwoldt are four that are making/ made a mockery of that theory.

All of them more agile and quicker than Cloke. Reiwoldt is a one off massive exception.

The game is so fast now having someone who is slow by foot and mind creates a weak link.

 

[regpies]

I'm really keen to see how Cloke goes at the Bulldogs. We all remember how good he was for us and it will be interesting to see if he can recapture his old form. Round 1 is going to be very exciting.

A bit off topic but do people think we'll boo Travis? Of course some people are going to boo him by virtue of him being an ex Collingwood player. But I really hope its not a loud chorus of boos. Clokey carried our forward line for years and was pushed out by the club.

I wouldn't boo him, no hard feelings, same with Dawes, we pushed them out, they didn't desert us like Daisy or Freeman

 

[soreplums]

I like Trav, but his game and how we play don't suit each other. To be honest though, if he could kick straight, he might still be on our list

 

[sr36]

Ok

I'm glad you agree.

 

[jackcass]

Bucks inherited the best centre half forward in the game, a free wheeler, who ran his opponent into the ground, was unstoppable when the ball was kicked into space for him to run onto and pushed his weary opponent around in contested situations. Bucks then turned him into an immobile stay at home full forward who wrestled with 3 opponents. The change wasn't about father time, it occurred the moment Bucks took over. Cloke was still good enough to have a great 2013, but I'm convinced that what could have been a great career was wasted by Bucks being obsessed with Cloke playing a stagnant, structural role rather than a free wheeling role. I expect a resurgence at the Dogs.

I'm not so sure that Bucks chose to turn him into a stay at home full forward by choice. Rumours at the time suggested knee tendinitis. Cloke now seems to have regained his mobility and I wonder how much of the discussion about his senior selection was about Bucks wanting Cloke to return to that free-wheeling forward and Cloke willingness to do it.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Do you think Father Time has come for Cloke?

I don't know. All we can do is speculate.
You asked if it was hypocritical of the club to say Father Time had come for him but yet recruited a 32 year old.
The point is a simple one. Father Time comes for one 30 year old but may bypass another. I watched Wells in a few games last year and it looked like he was telling Father Time to * off. Having said that, I have no idea what he'll produce for us.
I agree with CFC, the comment was unnecessary but hardly hypocritical in light of the Wells decision.

 

[sr36]

I'm not so sure that Bucks chose to turn him into a stay at home full forward by choice. Rumours at the time suggested knee tendinitis. Cloke now seems to have regained his mobility and I wonder how much of the discussion about his senior selection was about Bucks wanting Cloke to return to that free-wheeling forward and Cloke willingness to do it.

4 years of knee tendinitis is possible but unlikely. I'd also suggest that him bulking up whilst suffering an extended knee tendinitis must have been complete incompetence from two different fitness departments.

 

[ottoman]

Watching Cloke kick 5 against us in round 1 would really suck.

It's only 5 points jmac. If Mayne kicks one goal we are still 1 point in the black.

 

[THATSGOLD]

It's only 5 points jmac. If Mayne kicks one goal we are still 1 point in the black.

Mayne is more likely to kick 5 behinds than Cloke given his recent form. Mayne and White up front is a bad combination. two big spuds.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I wouldn't boo him, no hard feelings, same with Dawes, we pushed them out, they didn't desert us like Daisy or Freeman

Agree but the reason Daisy left is because we pushed Mick out and that had a flow on effect with most of the list in 2011.

 

[mike123]

Again with this? He was an AA and premiership CHF several years ago.

And would still be if the gameplan supported him.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

It's only 5 points jmac. If Mayne kicks one goal we are still 1 point in the black.

Goodness that was a brilliant post.

Loved it

 

[ottoman]

Goodness that was a brilliant post.

Loved it

Your up early SV. Getting in early on the form guide I guess.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Your up early SV. Getting in early on the form guide I guess.

That's pretty much it, it's very hot night here.
Even with AC it's still a restless night.

 

[jmac70]

That's pretty much it, it's very hot night here.
Even with AC it's still a restless night.

I had the AC on all night and slept under the doona

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I had the AC on all night and slept under the doona

Then you know the settings are perfect.
Well done Sir.

 

[Scodog10]

All of them more agile and quicker than Cloke. Reiwoldt is a one off massive exception.

The game is so fast now having someone who is slow by foot and mind creates a weak link.

It appears his mobility is severely underrated on here. Whenever KPD's speak about playing on him they talk about not only his bulk, but also his ability to blow them up with his tank.

As has been discussed at length in this thread his role had changed in the latter stages of his time with us (rightly or wrongly). Beforehand though he was capable of covering the ground as well as any of those fowards just in a different manner.

At the Bulldogs he'll most likely return to a more free wheeling role so whether the father time comment is proven will be shown in time one thing I'm sure about is that we'll get a quick answer on his mobility. Having shed weight I'm very confident with my assesment, but we'll see.

 

[No SPIN]

Yeah nah



The simplest argument is Buckley should have built a gameplan to suit Cloke. Given that wasn't the case Buckley wasn't doing all in his power to work around those weakness. You can argue Cloke should have done this or that or whatever but that doesn't matter, we invested allot into him and its up to us to make that investment pay off.

we were too "Cloke focussed", for much of the last 5 years- and that needed to change as so many here have previously and correctly observed.

 

[No SPIN]

It appears his mobility is severely underrated on here. Whenever KPD's speak about playing on him they talk about not only his bulk, but also his ability to blow them up with his tank.

As has been discussed at length in this thread his role had changed in the latter stages of his time with us (rightly or wrongly). Beforehand though he was capable of covering the ground as well as any of those fowards just in a different manner.

At the Bulldogs he'll most likely return to a more free wheeling role so whether the father time comment is proven will be shown in time one thing I'm sure about is that we'll get a quick answer on his mobility. Having shed weight I'm very confident with my assesment, but we'll see.

I would call what you are describing as running power/aerobic capacity.
But mobility eg. agility, ground ball/below the knees competence, and quickness of mind are lacking. All these are needed in todays game.
But he is not alone, Hawkins has similar issues.

 

[No SPIN]

4 years of knee tendinitis is possible but unlikely. I'd also suggest that him bulking up whilst suffering an extended knee tendinitis must have been complete incompetence from two different fitness departments.

or as others have stated here - obstinance on his behalf, as he chose to ignore directions to lose weight.

 

[Scodog10]

I would call what you are describing as running power/aerobic capacity.
But mobility eg. agility, ground ball/below the knees competence, and quickness of mind are lacking. All these are needed in todays game.
But he is not alone, Hawkins has similar issues.

Shock horror we disagree again I can understand the distinction you're making, but those elements are all encompassing in terms of mobility, IMO.

For mine his onfield mind is another element to his game that is severely underrated. There's no doubting he's as dumb as a post off the field, but you don't have the sort of career he's had if you don't have a sharp football brain. Like Martin's ability to get involved in possession chains despite only having a handful of brain cells to rub together Cloke know's where to be on the lead and when. Over the past 15 years I've seen only three lead up KPF's with clearly better running patterns (Richo, Reiwoldt and Tredrea) and only a couple of others a match (Tarrant and Membrey).

This is it for me though because the discussion is now really winding away from Jmac's original POV and I'm mindful of how divisive my views can be, but I'll leave with this question. Why is it that in the space of 12 months a player can receive the sort of criticism Cloke now cops yet the same type of comments are still taboo (to a degree) toward the coach who's failures have been as big as Cloke's for 3 years? It was 24 months of mediocrity until I turned on the coach yet Cloke got half the time and is out the door.

Again only a general assessment that intrigues me and not a knock on anyone's views because this place is so boring when we're all on the same page ala 2011!

 

[Mkcaptain]

Mayne is more likely to kick 5 behinds than Cloke given his recent form. Mayne and White up front is a bad combination. two big spuds.

I'd be happy if Mayne was getting 5 shots at goal a game.