Just trying to understand your gripe, crazy that AFL let it continue.
Is it just the freekick count that is being used to come to this conclusion?
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No Oppo Supporters The Umpiring thread.
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Is it just the freekick count that is being used to come to this conclusion?
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Not engaging with you as you have proven more than once that folk having a different opinion to you means you cant have a normal conversation.
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Indeed.
No, but it's a large part. Umpire consistency in officiating is a massive concern.
Pay this decision for this team, won't pay it for the others
First to the ball etc doesn't seem to correlate.
I was at your game at the 'G against Hawthorn two weeks ago and thought you were hard done by in the first quarter or so...it evened up massively later though, and that's also a concern as it often seems there is an "evening up" at play from the umpires advisor rather than a reflection on particular decisions
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Could it be that some teams are better drilled in not giving away free kicks? Or better skilled in drawing free kicks?
I have also never agreed with the fact that "the free kick count was 10 to 20" that's unfair. There is no logic that suggests the free kick count needs to be even.
The average frees for this year are 18 and against are 18. Freo is sitting at 17 for and 19 against. West coast 19 for and 15 against. Could this difference be a zoning defense or a better tackling technique opposed to cheating?
Why would the AFL let cheating go if it were so obvious?
- Apr 16, 2014
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Because they are struggling to get umpires as is, if umpires started getting called out publicly I'd hazard a guess absolutely no-one would want the job. There is a reason they fine clubs for talking about the umps.
Take Freo out of the equation... Your board and Bigfooty in general harped on about the golden run the Doggies got with the umps over the finals. Couldn't it be they just have better handballing techniques? Or do you think the umps might have got unconsciously caught up in the story somewhat?
Unconscious and bias exists in everything, why do you think it doesn't in umpiring.
What do you think Leigh Fisher thinks of Ross Lyon for ending his career? Do you think he might have a few negative thoughts about him? Do you think unconsciously that could impact his decisions on a 50/50 call?
I would hope not. Finding a loop hole and exploiting it isn't the same as the umps cheating. I dont think they are bias i think the make mistakes both ways and supporters blow it out of proportion.
No way the AFL let cheating continune because its hard to grt umpires.
One ump may have a bias due to a certain player or coach but no way the rest jump on board and continue with their bias.
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No way the AFL let cheating continune because its hard to grt umpires.
One ump may have a bias due to a certain player or coach but no way the rest jump on board and continue with their bias.
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So do you think the umpiring in last years grand final was fair and of a good standard?
Good points. Gieschen started this IMHO when he labelled Chris Judd and others (GAblett) "ball players" inferring they needed protection (or were to receive different treatment than the supposed "non-ball players' aka the taggers such as Crowley, Carr and Ling.
Ryan Crowley was crucified IMHO culminating in a fine from the tribunal for a blatant sooky lie from Brent Harvey that was never corroborated by any evidence.
And as much as I hate that little turd Toby Greene, I didn't like the umpires admitting they were "watching" him. All players should be treated and adjudicated equally and fairly.
And finally, the umps need to stop calling players by their names and nicknames. This silly chummy thing they have going on presents yet another perceived conflict of interest. Just refer to players by their number.
I didn't notice it being bad. I thought the grand final last year was great.
Having been at the MCG for the previous 2 I hadn't watched one on TV for a while (I still haven't watched a replay of the 2015 gf
)I defiantly didn't notice it being bad to the point where I would suggest that the umps were bias and favoring one side.
And whilst I'm on a roll, I hate this deliberate rushed behind rule. What's wrong with sacrificing a point to the opposition? The most frequent winning margin in Aussie Rules footy is 1 point. So rushing a behind or two could easily cost you a match. That's enough of a penalty IMO.
Plenty of sports offer such a thing that isn't penalised so harshly:
Baseball with the sacrifice fly/bunt, and 'walking' a player.
American football I think has the 'safety'.
And numerous sports (basketball being the most prominent) make strategic use of the 'professional foul '.
end rant.
Plenty of sports offer such a thing that isn't penalised so harshly:
Baseball with the sacrifice fly/bunt, and 'walking' a player.
American football I think has the 'safety'.
And numerous sports (basketball being the most prominent) make strategic use of the 'professional foul '.
end rant.
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I didn't notice it being bad. I thought the grand final last year was great.
Having been at the MCG for the previous 2 I hadn't watched one on TV for a while (I still haven't watched a replay of the 2015 gf
I defiantly didn't notice it being bad to the point where I would suggest that the umps were bias and favoring one side.
The AFL have since come out and said that the umpiring was below standard. Which considering they never talk about umpiring is fairly extrodinary. This matches basically what everyone else has said since. That the Swans got a raw deal.
Maybe you're not paying enough attention.
Maybe im not. Do you have the link?
What have they come out and said about the bias that West Coast get? From memory I haven't read or heard of them doing so? But I dont read every shred of AFL media, so they may have.
- Jul 2, 2013
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Below is an analysis of all games since Ross Lyon started coaching Fremantle (start of 2012 season) to see if there is any relationship between Free Kicks and how successful Fremantle are travelling for the season, at the time of the game.
That is, Round1 of a season, I categorise that game as Even because Freo are 0 wins and 0 losses for the season. If they win Round1, then in Round2 they would be classified as Winning (ie. 1 win, 0 losses on the ladder). If it's Round 23 and Freo are 3 wins and 18 losses then they would be classified as Losing. Finals games I have separated.
So here's what we get;
Even Games: 14 Games for +28 Free Kick Differential
Winning Games: 77 Games for -120 FKD
Losing Games: 25 Games for -11 FKD
Finals Games: 9 for -47 FKD
This data strongly supports my beliefs that the umpires are politically motivated by the AFL. The more successful Freo are, the worse the umpiring becomes, highlighted by Freo's atrocious finals Free Kick differential.
Again, please don't get me wrong here. My beliefs aren't just "the AFL are out to get Freo". Far from it. My beliefs are that the AFL will encourage favorable umpiring for teams that they think offer a financial benefit to the AFL. This is why the Eagles are so strongly supported by the umpires. West Coast have a much larger fan base in WA than Fremantle. The vast majority of the WA Media is very closely aligned with West Coast. Heck channel 7 and the West sponsor East Perth. Only yesterday I read a watoday article about why Fyfe should have got a 2 week ban for the Yeo MRP report. The article was so blatantly and factually incorrect it was just a pure propaganda piece for the common Eagles supporter.
The AFL is profitable because of the media. In a season when Fremantle go well and West Coast go poorly, I bet my left nut that the WA media suffers because of it.
That is, Round1 of a season, I categorise that game as Even because Freo are 0 wins and 0 losses for the season. If they win Round1, then in Round2 they would be classified as Winning (ie. 1 win, 0 losses on the ladder). If it's Round 23 and Freo are 3 wins and 18 losses then they would be classified as Losing. Finals games I have separated.
So here's what we get;
Even Games: 14 Games for +28 Free Kick Differential
Winning Games: 77 Games for -120 FKD
Losing Games: 25 Games for -11 FKD
Finals Games: 9 for -47 FKD
This data strongly supports my beliefs that the umpires are politically motivated by the AFL. The more successful Freo are, the worse the umpiring becomes, highlighted by Freo's atrocious finals Free Kick differential.
Again, please don't get me wrong here. My beliefs aren't just "the AFL are out to get Freo". Far from it. My beliefs are that the AFL will encourage favorable umpiring for teams that they think offer a financial benefit to the AFL. This is why the Eagles are so strongly supported by the umpires. West Coast have a much larger fan base in WA than Fremantle. The vast majority of the WA Media is very closely aligned with West Coast. Heck channel 7 and the West sponsor East Perth. Only yesterday I read a watoday article about why Fyfe should have got a 2 week ban for the Yeo MRP report. The article was so blatantly and factually incorrect it was just a pure propaganda piece for the common Eagles supporter.
The AFL is profitable because of the media. In a season when Fremantle go well and West Coast go poorly, I bet my left nut that the WA media suffers because of it.
Nightrain
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I'll give you the benefit of doubt this isn't a piss take and you are genuine.
If you care to read this thread and the game day thread on the main board I don't think you will find a rational Dockers supporter who believes we should have won the game. We were tripe and you guys wanted it more.
I suggest you watch the derby again and try and be impartial. You've won the game now so nothing you say or admit from now on will change the fact you guys have banked the 4 points. Watch each free kick paid, be honest, and ask yourself would that have normally been paid? Then look at the non-decisions and ask yourself the same question. Then tally up how many suspect-frees each team were awarded and do the same for the non-decisions which weren't paid. Also consider the locations of the frees and non-decisions and whether they lead to goals or prevented potential ones. Then consider how you would feel if it were your team on the receiving end.
Dockers players aren't angels and not for a second are we saying that all of your frees were unfair or undeserved. It is those decisions which are paid one way but not the other and their location on the ground that gets up our nose.
I don't know what it is, but personally, I go into every game expecting Freo to be reamed by the umps and it seems to me we get reamed more than most. Some of the calls on the w/e were so baffling I sat there amongst a group of friends just laughing. That's how comical it was. The first minute of the game, where Yeo avoided a HTB decision, set the scene and I knew what was coming. The rest was as expected.
As for the bolded part in your post, I am not sure where you have been living or how much football you watch but I think it is safe to say that it is not just us. The majority of the comp think this as well.
Your away record isn't great because you don't get the umpiring assistance in away matches, which you have now become so reliant on.
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The reason why
The reason why I.refuse to buy the west Australian anymore. And avoid Chan 7 news. It's a disgrace.
Mate, to be honest, it's the only conclusion I can come to. I know it sounds like sour grapes, but I have no other explanation. It happens week in, week out to us.
You are more than entitled to your opinion.
In a nut shell, you think the AFL let the umps favor the Eagles, but only at Subi.
And allow the umps to ream Freo on the reg?
Do you have a reason why the AFL would let this happen?
And it's not shown just by the free kick count, it's the ones that are not paid, and the location of the ones that are paid.
The free kick count suggest we are both pretty much inline with each other of for v against. And are both pretty much inline with the rest of the comp.
Are we now talking "quality of free kicks".
I don't watch enough of Freo to comment.
I just think supporters can blow things up to be bigger than they are in real life. On all sides of football.
And yet you have...?
Comment on the location and timing of your free kicks?
I have been trying to figure out where/why this free kicks logic come from, and if there is an explanation. My comments have been based more around the suggestion that West Coast are Ki55ed on the d**k when it comes to free kicks, and I can't honestly see it.
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You are in the Umpiring Thread on our board posting comments when you've just admitted you don't watch enough of Freo to comment. So why are you here then? Looks, feels and smells like a troll to me.
I don't agree with all the comments by my fellow supporters in this thread but at least I've watched the games so I can participate in an educated conversation with them about it. What's your purpose being here?
Dont be that guy, that descends this into "blah blah he goes for west coast". The conversation is tracking well.
Go back and look at your posts. You've contributed nothing of value to the conversation at all. All your questions are poor attempts to simplify the topic down to "do you think the AFL are pro West Coast or anti Freo" so you can go back to your board and paint all of our supporters as looney conspiracy theorists. Your questions have already been answered in detail through earlier posts by posters who have gone to considerable effort researching the area and have provided some really good data, tables and charts about their concerns.
There is clearly an imbalance when it comes to umpiring AFL. And as plenty have mentioned there is potential for subconscious bias and even deliberate abuse as it doesn't appear regulated that closely. These are legitimate concerns and ones that the AFL needs to take seriously for the betterment of the game. It's already a hot topic in the media, so it's not confined to being a Fremantle only concern.
- Jul 2, 2013
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Dude, you need to take your head out of the sand.
Since 2010 to now West Coast have had a team Free Kick Differential of +505, Freo have had -104.
(After West Coast, the next best off team is North Melbourne with +195. The worst team is Brisbane Lions with -272.)
In 4 of those 8 seasons, West Coast have had the highest Free Kick Differential in the entire AFL Compeition (2nd twice, 3rd once, 6th once).
Where can I look up those stats? Do you know the for v against? Because this year we are averaging roughly 3 less than most, interesting to see if the differential over the long term were kicks paid to west coast or kicks against.
West Coast should share the magic potion with Freo to screw the vics.
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