List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

[Shaz2012]

What? How can you compare Watts (who either didnt play or spudded it up for his first few years) with Weitering, who was holding down Full back as an 18 year old, getting coaches votes, and early season favoritism for the R/S?

He dropped off this year in his second year early (we played him as a forward early in the year, and it unsettled him IMO) before bouncing back strongly at the end of the season.



No, they're not. They really truly are not.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-carlton-blues--caleb-marchbank

Specifically:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=2&type=A&pid1=4031&pid2=4027&fid1=S&fid2=S

Plowman has been playing for us for 2 years now, and has slotted straight into our best 22 from day one. Ive watched a lot of him, and he is not 'a long way off'.

Lever I rate higher than Lachie, but Plowman is no spud.



Barring injury, no they wont.



I agree.



We need half a dozen mids even if he remains a one club player.



I agree. But dont forget he adds value to our side. He enables us to safely play the kids.

You're acting like 'He wont be there for the next Carlton flag assault, so you might as well trade him out.'

Melbourne thought the same way 10 years ago, traded out experience, and look what happened. You cant gut a list of experience and harder bodies. It wrecks the culture and the kids get flogged (wrecking it more).

I think we are disagreeing on scales. I am not saying those players I mentioned are bad. I just don't agree with you on how good they are. But I accept that in time, its possible that they could be. I am giving you a lot there, normally I wouldn't even be bothered giving them a chance. I don't doubt that they will have long AFL careers, so when I say a long way off, I am talking with respect to how you are pumping them up as potential backbones for a premiership. I think they are a long way off that.

With Wietering, I said he could end up being like Watts and not living up to his draft pick. Watts had to develop as a KPF and wasn't quite able to. I think he would have been a very good defender personally. He gets so much of the ball for a big man and uses it well. But doesnt kick goals.

Also, the fact that these players are slotting into your best 22 is not really proof of anything no offence. Your best 22 is not great and hasnt been for some time. Its looking a lot better this year. I like your competitiveness. I dont think Gibbs makes a lick of difference to your side. You wouldn't be getting smashed just because you take him out. Maybe you lose a couple of extra games that you won by small margins. Doesnt matter for your development.

 

[Shaz2012]

Brisbane definitely could do that and I won't be at all surprised if that happens. As strong as next years draft is, they need to improve their side now not get another good 17 YO in 18 months, and they currently have a good midfield and some seriously talented tall forwards. Cameron to rove and provide defensive pressure would be just what they need to help those tall forwards. definitely could happen.

Please dont put an offer too good to refuse in front of the crows that sees Cameron leave. I feel its looking less and less likely now, but I have been waiting for him to explode into a match winning beast. If only he kept up his form of the first month or two of the season then we would be talking about him as a potential AA instead of a potential bust.

 

[Golumless]

Question If Francis were to ask for a trade to the Crows what could you offer would there be any inside mids available?

Wigg/CEY I suppose.

We're pretty much scraping the bottom barrel as it is with inside midfielders, and we have nearly everyone fit; in that regard we're probably the worst trading partner for inside midfielders (Something I imagine we'll focus on a bit this off season).

Stacked everywhere else though.

 

[Shaz2012]

I dont want Lever (we dont need him), and we wouldnt be trading our 1st next year.

How about a straight swap for Weitering? I know I have just let down his tyres, but Lever > Weitering. But Lever is also uncontracted. Since we are losing Lever, my first preference is to replace him with somebody else that can do that role. I want Jeremy McGovern, but I would do a straight swap for Docherty or Weitering.

 

[Golumless]

In terms of inside mids, probably not a lot. Cam Ellis-Yolman in the right system could be quite good, but as mentioned is coming off a knee and was struggling to hold down a spot prior to that. You could probably get him as a DFA, or at most as the proverbial "steak knives". Both Poholke and Signorello are developing, but only drafted last year, unclear as to where they sit with the club long term, neither were high draft picks either.

You could try to entice Thommo out of retirement...

I like Francis, but I doubt we've got an inside mid to get the deal done.

Could just be the case of giving him a block of 10-15 games and just sees what happens, won't happen here but would be worth a shot at a weaker club.

Enough tools there that if it clicked, he could become something similar to Lyons in terms of a shining light in a weak side.

 

[Malifice]

Also, the fact that these players are slotting into your best 22 is not really proof of anything no offence.

Our defence is actually very good and was noted as being such almost universally this year ('Carlton are a hard team to play against now'). We lost most of our games (all barring 3) by small margins, and we were in those games all right till the end.

That defence featured the veteran Simpson (33), plus Docherty (23), Weitering (19) Marchbank (20), Plowman (22), Williamson (18), Byrne (22), Macreadie (18) with help from Jones (26) towards the end of the year, after injuries to A Silvagni and Rowe.

Not a bad effort for such a young backline.

I dont think Gibbs makes a lick of difference to your side.

We beat GC by a goal in a game Gibbs had 43 disposals. He was instrumental in other wins as well, and was a driving force in getting us close in many others. He had a very good year.

If we we'rent playing Gibbs, we would need to be giving games to Polson, and he isnt ready yet, Graham (too slow) or Palmer (a spud). It would have made a huge difference.

You wouldn't be getting smashed just because you take him out. Maybe you lose a couple of extra games that you won by small margins. Doesnt matter for your development.

Agree to disagree. I say it would make a difference to development, and would have set us back, forcing us to play kids too soon, and exposing them to constant floggings. Take Gibbs out of our side, and (with Cripps out most of the year injured or playing with an injury) we effectively have a one man midfield in a 30 year old Murphy.

As you mention above, we gained some respect back this year, and were able to blood a lot of kids (clocking up 5 R/S noms on the journey).

I doubt we would have been able to do either with Gibbs out of the side.

We're a year older now, and hopefully Cripps and co can take up some of that leadership slack (or we can get in Rocky as a free agent to do the same).

Im open to us trading Gibbs (as I was last year). Im just saying you need to accept (and factor in) the fact that Gibbs does have value to us notwithstanding our ladder position at present.

 

[Shaz2012]

Our defence is actually very good and was noted as being such almost universally this year ('Carlton are a hard team to play against now'). We lost most of our games (all barring 3) by small margins, and we were in those games all right till the end.

That defence featured the veteran Simpson (33), plus Docherty (23), Weitering (19) Marchbank (20), Plowman (22), Williamson (18), Byrne (22), Macreadie (18) with help from Jones (26) towards the end of the year, after injuries to A Silvagni and Rowe.

Not a bad effort for such a young backline.

I dont disagree with this. As I said, I think we are only disagreeing on scale. I am only pointing out that being promising 18-22 year olds and then going on to be a premiership standard defence are two different things.

We beat GC by a goal in a game Gibbs had 43 disposals. He was instrumental in other wins as well, and was a driving force in getting us close in many others. He had a very good year.

If we we'rent playing Gibbs, we would need to be giving games to Polson, and he isnt ready yet, Graham (too slow) or Palmer (a spud). It would have made a huge difference.

Agree to disagree. I say it would make a difference to development, and would have set us back, forcing us to play kids too soon, and exposing them to constant floggings. Take Gibbs out of our side, and (with Cripps out most of the year injured or playing with an injury) we effectively have a one man midfield in a 30 year old Murphy.

As you mention above, we gained some respect back this year, and were able to blood a lot of kids (clocking up 5 R/S noms on the journey).

I doubt we would have been able to do either with Gibbs out of the side.

We're a year older now, and hopefully Cripps and co can take up some of that leadership slack (or we can get in Rocky as a free agent to do the same).

Im open to us trading Gibbs (as I was last year). Im just saying you need to accept (and factor in) the fact that Gibbs does have value to us notwithstanding our ladder position at present.

But your first point shows that wouldnt have been the case. The whole point about the need for Gibbs hand holding is at odds with your "universally" best defence statement. Sure, he would have prevented the number and quality of F50 entries, but so would have Berry.

Who cares if you won that game against GC, they finished 2nd bottom. If you took Gibbs out of that side and replaced him with Berry in the draft then I dont think there would be any difference to how you guys played and developed this season. But you would have given 15-20 games to a gun future player and probably another rising star nomination to your collection.

 

[Mismatched]

Been the same since he was 14.Cant imagine that changing

Boys often don't mature until early 20's or even later. Some manage to find that work ethic and professionalism with maturity, others don't. May not change with Francis, but I wouldn't be writing him off just yet.

Dangerfield took until 2012 to properly get his body into elite shape, once he did that, went from a talented forward/midfielder who struggled to find 15 touches a game, to an elite mid averaging 25+ touches a game. Gary Ablett jnr was similar, as was McLeod, now obviously he's a long way off these guys, but sometimes it can take some players a few years to understand how to properly get their body right to play AFL.

 

[RePete]

Carlton don't want Lever. They will only accept our crumbs. Would be surprised if they don't pick up Dean Gore when we delist him in a few weeks.

 

[baldandbroke]

I dont want Lever (we dont need him), and we wouldnt be trading our 1st next year.

I understand you don't want him, I'm just saying adding a player like Lever should be every team's aim. He is young and improving from a high base. I also understand that everyone knows 2018 picks will be held onto pretty tight. But if you can gain someone like Lever and still be in the first round of a really strong draft, it's not so stupid an idea.

I do know that Carlton supporters and probably list management would not be interested in this type of deal, which is almost a George Costanza moment where doing the opposite should make perfect sense

 

[Malifice]

I understand you don't want him, I'm just saying adding a player like Lever should be every team's aim. He is young and improving from a high base. I also understand that everyone knows 2018 picks will be held onto pretty tight. But if you can gain someone like Lever and still be in the first round of a really strong draft, it's not so stupid an idea.

We have a bunch of talented young KPD's (and rebounding defenders). We genuinely dont need more. He would provide a minimial overall benefit to our team (pushing Plowman out maybe, and Lachie is a good player but not to the same level as Lever). We need gun young mids.

Heck, I wouldnt want us paying more than an early 2nd for Lever, and he's worth considerably more than that.

A club like Melbourne or the Dogs on the other hand...

 

[baldandbroke]

We have a bunch of talented young KPD's (and rebounding defenders). We genuinely dont need more. He would provide a minimial overall benefit to our team (pushing Plowman out maybe, and Lachie is a good player but not to the same level as Lever). We need gun young mids.

Heck, I wouldnt want us paying more than an early 2nd for Lever, and he's worth considerably more than that.

A club like Melbourne or the Dogs on the other hand...

Absolutely, not arguing that Carlton is Adelaide's preferred suitor.

Disagree on the building of a stacked defence though ... a defence like that can carry a team to great things.

 

[BunjiMac]

If we somehow ended up to first for Lever, there would be no way I'd be throwing them at Gibbs.

Id definitely be using them to see how we could position ourselves higher in the 2018 draft though.

Id be happy to part with our first round pick this year for Gibbs.

 

[Elite Crow]

If we somehow ended up to first for Lever, there would be no way I'd be throwing them at Gibbs.

Id definitely be using them to see how we could position ourselves higher in the 2018 draft though.

Id be happy to part with our first round pick this year for Gibbs.

Somehow? If we can't get at least one first for Lever we would have to be the weakest traders in history.

 

[BunjiMac]

Somehow? If we can't get at least one first for Danger we would have to be the weakest traders in history.

They was meant to read "two first"

 

[Huntercrow]

We still aren't beggars looking for any player who will come.

We have a good list looking to make it better with specific player types. Not looking to add just anyone at risk of unbalancing the side

So who are these specific players you mention? If you were one of our list managers who would you target?

 

[Mego Red]

Somehow? If we can't get at least one first for Danger we would have to be the weakest traders in history.

Danger?

 

[Sanders]

Question If Francis were to ask for a trade to the Crows what could you offer would there be any inside mids available?

A nutritionist and a decent fitness programme

Send over his time trials and skin folds then we talk

 

[Sanders]

How about a straight swap for Weitering? I know I have just let down his tyres, but Lever > Weitering.

Serious question: Have you ever watched weitering?

 

[Elite Crow]

Danger?

He was implanted on my brain after all the footy shows.

 

[Matman23]

Fox Footy's article suggest.
Gibbs to Adelaide
Lever to Melbourne
Picks 10 & 27 to Carlton
Yeah. Ok.

 

[Mego Red]

Fox Footy's article suggest.
Gibbs to Adelaide
Lever to Melbourne
Picks 10 & 27 to Carlton
Yeah. Ok.

****ing hell, that is terrible.

 

[1990crow]

Fox Footy's article suggest.
Gibbs to Adelaide
Lever to Melbourne
Picks 10 & 27 to Carlton
Yeah. Ok.

My god the Vic media is terrible.

 

[spenze]

Fox Footy's article suggest.
Gibbs to Adelaide
Lever to Melbourne
Picks 10 & 27 to Carlton
Yeah. Ok.

That is working on the " their window is open, they should pay more" belief. It is as stupid as " that person earns more, they should pay more for their groceries".

 

[baldandbroke]

Fox Footy's article suggest.
Gibbs to Adelaide
Lever to Melbourne
Picks 10 & 27 to Carlton
Yeah. Ok.

Carlton walk away from the table in a huff.
'Where are my two first round picks?!?!'

SOS could throw a bigger tantrum than last year! Two clubs trying to screw him

If we trade lever to Melbourne, Carlton will demand the Demon's first AND our first.

Gonna be an interesting trade period. Should either confirm or dispel a lot of myths about AFC's standing at the trade table.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk