Oppo Camp Brodie Grundy (Traded to Melbourne 2022)

[Saintly Viewed]

Two questions that might open some debate.

Player you start a team with? (Grundy/Cripps/Oliver/Bontempelli/Kelly/Gawn etc)

Best single season by any Collingwood ruckman ever? (Thompson/Moore/Monkhorst etc)

My answers to both are 2018 Grundy.

Great questions.

I'd take Grundy over your listed starting players.

Best ruck year, that's really tough. I'd take it in trust but Len Thompson in 1972 was meant to be something else.
Gary Dempsey 1975 or various years were so dominant.
Graham Moss very very forgotten but he had a spell there, for a few years completing in 1976 (his last season of VFL), that was super play.

In recent times Grundy has shown to project to elite and equal best for position league wide (with only Gawn obviously).

The AA selectors got the duality of Gawn / Grundy spot on this year. Got that one right. Both absolutely were worthy and should be AA.

 

[Knightmare]

Great questions.

I'd take Grundy over your listed starting players.

Best ruck year, that's really tough. I'd take it in trust but Len Thompson in 1972 was meant to Ve something else.
Gary Dempsey 1975 or various years were so dominant.
Graham Moss very very forgotten but he had a spell there, for a few years completing in 1976 (his last season of VFL), that was super play.

In recent times Grundy has shown to project to elite and equal best for position league wide (with only Gawn obviously).

The AA selectors got the duality of Gawn / Grundy spot on this year. Got that one right. Both absolutely were worthy and should be AA.

Thompson had Grundy covered as a mark and forward of centre as a goalkicker. So that's a fair call.

Grundy first to 500 disposals and 1000 hitouts all in the same season is his case. One of three ever to hit 1000 hitouts in a season (including finals) and Grundy's go is his followup/ground level stuff.

 

[Shaneprice97]

This bloke could hit goat ruckman status.

I remember the rumours before the draft about him sliding to our pick 18, and couldnt believe it when it happened. GWS/Geelong f*cked up big time passing him, considering how trash their ruck stocks are.

 

[Dynamics]

It may just sound like one-eyed hyperbole but the potential to go down as one of the great ruckmen in VFL/AFL history is there for the taking.

AA ruck at 24 is a huge achievement in itself, but as Knightmare said it's the manner in which he does it that's so impressive, racking up massive hitout numbers even though his greatest strength is his work around the ground.

Comfortably out best player now. To answer Knightmare's question, Grundy would be my first pick if building a side from scratch. Also the best season I've seen from a Pies ruckman.

 

[Knightmare]

All time Simon Madden, Gary Dempsey, Dean Cox and Jim Stynes are the guys Grundy has to chase. Len Thompson might be my fifth on that all-time ruck list when talking just AFL/VFL.

Graham Moss and perhaps others that don't immediately come to mind could pass a Thompson for fifth if WAFL/SANFL past players and their achievements were included.

I favour Grundy to Gawn as that better followup ruckman and the much more durable and younger player who should have a much longer career. He looks like the best since Cox. The question is whether he can enter the conversation with these kinds of names and maintain or even build upon his current standard. Can get start pushing forward and taking more grabs and kicking goals? Can he kick more of those midfielder goals?

I like the rule changes for Grundy, where you can now take it out of the ruck without prior opportunity. I can see him plucking it out of the ruck and dragging it forward. Particularly with so many of the better ruckmen ageing and the position on track to become weaker with each season over the next certainly five years with the deficit of good young ruckmen coming through and so many of the better ruckmen 30+ years old.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Just seen Dean Cox was named as an AA in 2005 at the same age as Grundy in 2018.

 

[Forethought]

With the new rule for 2019, this enhances Grundys natural game.
He’ll have less congestion at centre sq bounces so his follow up will increase his clearance numbers which are already the leagues best. Our mids are going to have a field day with the open space.
Further with Boundry throw ins his speed to dropping throw ins means he can now take the ball without fear of an automatic free kick if he is tackled.

 

[TradeDraft]

Two questions that might open some debate.

Player you start a team with? (Grundy/Cripps/Oliver/Bontempelli/Kelly/Gawn etc)

Best single season by any Collingwood ruckman ever? (Thompson/Moore/Monkhorst etc)

My answers to both are 2018 Grundy.

Agree with 1st One but I was never around to see Thompson/Monkhurst/Moore but I say he is the Best Ruckman we had since Monkey

 

[TradeDraft]

Thompson had Grundy covered as a mark and forward of centre as a goalkicker. So that's a fair call.

Grundy Barley plays Forward so that could be why he does not Kicking Goals. His Marking is getting Better and Better

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Agree with 1st One but I was never around to see Thompson/Monkhurst/Moore but I say he is the Best Ruckman we had since Monkey

He’s better than Monkey.
Actually a different level- elite level
Tracking

 

[jmac70]

He’s better than Monkey.
Actually a different level- elite level
Tracking

Hopefully he gets what Monkey has.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Hopefully he gets what Monkey has.

A plumbing career?
Ruck coaching gig?

 

[Black_White]

So Grundy is climbing Everest....
No risk of course..
https://allthatsinteresting.com/mount-everest-bodies

***Warning, death is shown in the above link****

 

[MarkT2]

Before anyone on here's time but Syd Coventry went alright. Won the Brownlow in 1927.

 

[sr36]

That’s an interesting price.
Much less than I’d have thought.

Going climbing on Everest is expensive I believe.

To base camp is a hike. Cheap because Nepal is cheap. All you are paying for is food accommodation and guide/porter. From base camp upwards is genuine climbing and would cost a bomb.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Before anyone on here's time but Syd Coventry went alright. Won the Brownlow in 1927.

Was a fine year for him.
My understanding was he was a super fine ruck and of ofcourse leader.
Unsure he was ever regarded in the best of the best like say Len Thompson for us or Polly Farmer or Gary Dempsey.
But he was terrific.

 

[Knightmare]

Before anyone on here's time but Syd Coventry went alright. Won the Brownlow in 1927.

If he played today, he'd be more suitable at 182/183cm to play back pocket.

That's not diminishing his greatness. He was one of the great players and leaders of his day. As were the Colliers, as was Gordon.

When I do comparisons, I look at whether they can still stack up together. Madden/Dempsey/Cox/Stynes. Those guys could all dominate today or under any set of rules.

Greats I believe can play in any era, but sometimes positional changes to keep up with the modern game are necessary when there is such a radical evolution of a position and the game more broadly as we've seen over the past 90 years since Syd played.

 

[TradeDraft]

If he played today, he'd be more suitable at 182/183cm to play back pocket.

That's not diminishing his greatness. He was one of the great players and leaders of his day. As were the Colliers, as was Gordon.

When I do comparisons, I look at whether they can still stack up together. Madden/Dempsey/Cox/Stynes. Those guys could all dominate today or under any set of rules.

Greats I believe can play in any era, but sometimes positional changes to keep up with the modern game are necessary when there is such a radical evolution of a position and the game more broadly as we've seen over the past 90 years since Syd played.

You can't really Compare Players from Different Era's as Game can Change that Much

 

[Saintly Viewed]

If he played today, he'd be more suitable at 182/183cm to play back pocket.

That's not diminishing his greatness. He was one of the great players and leaders of his day. As were the Colliers, as was Gordon.

When I do comparisons, I look at whether they can still stack up together. Madden/Dempsey/Cox/Stynes. Those guys could all dominate today or under any set of rules.

Greats I believe can play in any era, but sometimes positional changes to keep up with the modern game are necessary when there is such a radical evolution of a position and the game more broadly as we've seen over the past 90 years since Syd played.

All true, but generational size and fitness is so different as to make exact fit comparison redundant.

So I apply the rule that Rucks of yesteryear "transpose" to today's height fitness shape etc.

In reality a 6 foot ruck would be trashed but even average 6'6" types.

Would Jesse Owens compete favourably against Usian Bolt if both transpose to sane time? Perhaps so.
Otherwise Owens would struggle on his times to make the Olympic team of USA.

 

[Black_White]

To base camp is a hike. Cheap because Nepal is cheap. All you are paying for is food accommodation and guide/porter. From base camp upwards is genuine climbing and would cost a bomb.

https://ebctrekguide.com/deaths-on-everest-base-camp-trek-annually

 

[Saintly Viewed]

https://ebctrekguide.com/deaths-on-everest-base-camp-trek-annually

As of next preseason:

Brodie Grundy will be expressly forbidden to:

• Go to base camp
• Go to Nepal
• Go on any travel, anywhere
• Drive anywhere anytime
• Accept a lift from any AFL player (including anyone named Jordan)
• Cross the road without being accompanied by the Victorian Police force (min 10 officers)
• Live in any premises where there are not ten police officers or Australian army personnel
• Eat any nuts
• Eat any food that's bigger than one square centimeter.
• Complete any game without a full medical examination
• Any loving with his lady love under direct supervision of Aunt Lydia

 

[jmac70]

All true, but generational size and fitness is so different as to make exact fit comparison redundant.

So I apply the rule that Rucks of yesteryear "transpose" to today's height fitness shape etc.

In reality a 6 foot ruck would be trashed but even average 6'6" types.

Would Jesse Owens compete favourably against Usian Bolt if both transpose to sane time? Perhaps so.
Otherwise Owens would struggle on his times to make the Olympic team of USA.

Owens did not have access to the facilities and training of athletes today. He is easily the greatest track and field athlete of all time.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Owens did not have access to the facilities and training of athletes today. He is easily the greatest track and field athlete of all time.

Is he?

Certainly a great.

In any discussion, agree.

As Usain Bolt certainly has benefitted from modern trends and training, his three golds* x 3 is incredibly special.

* 1 gold lost via team member of relay.


Any full discussion of track and field surely must include Paavo Nurmi?
Beyond elite.

9 gold
3 silver

 

[jmac70]

Is he?

Certainly a great.

In any discussion, agree.

As Usain Bolt certainly has benefitted from modern trends and training, his three golds* x 3 is incredibly special.

* 1 gold lost via team member of relay.


Any full discussion of track and field surely must include Paavo Nurmi?
Beyond elite.

9 gold
3 silver

True, but Owens had to overcome greater hardship. He’s number 1 for me.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

All time Simon Madden, Gary Dempsey, Dean Cox and Jim Stynes are the guys Grundy has to chase. Len Thompson might be my fifth on that all-time ruck list when talking just AFL/VFL.

Graham Moss and perhaps others that don't immediately come to mind could pass a Thompson for fifth if WAFL/SANFL past players and their achievements were included.

I favour Grundy to Gawn as that better followup ruckman and the much more durable and younger player who should have a much longer career. He looks like the best since Cox. The question is whether he can enter the conversation with these kinds of names and maintain or even build upon his current standard. Can get start pushing forward and taking more grabs and kicking goals? Can he kick more of those midfielder goals?

I like the rule changes for Grundy, where you can now take it out of the ruck without prior opportunity. I can see him plucking it out of the ruck and dragging it forward. Particularly with so many of the better ruckmen ageing and the position on track to become weaker with each season over the next certainly five years with the deficit of good young ruckmen coming through and so many of the better ruckmen 30+ years old.

I really like your list of great Rucks.
I would assume you're confining the list to the known Rucks of say past five or so decades or so?

Three exceptions I must place, if I may:

Polly Farmer is a must include ruck in my view. Every old timer tells me of his prowess and how he changed rucking. And that handball.
So he is must for me.

John Nicholls is another player so powerful and elite. Big Nick led from the front too. And Big Nick was the perfect descriptor too.

And on Jim Stynes, just a no from me in that class you've listed. On my eye, terrific follower but more a consistent very very good player than all time great.

So stepping to the 60s till now, I'd have this group as of the best Rucks:

• G Farmer
• G Dempsey
• S Madden
• L Thompson
• G Moss
• D Cox
• J Nicholls

If I've missed anyone at that level, I'll amend but can't think of anyone at the moment.