Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

[LemmingMaster]

Does not bug me as I have seen both play and when Gallucci gets his 50 games he will be the better player. and will be around for longer.
You will start to see that end of this year. As Gallucci will be spending more time in the middle, making the comparison more realistic.
Last year he trained with and played forward this year he training with the midfield group.

And do we factor in that Gallucci was unable to get more than 1 game in a team that won the McClelland, unlike Fisher who did not have that much competition?
It Funny I had the same argument with a Carlton Supporter last year about Doedee, my argument back then was wait until all the players have played 50 games before you look at them. and I still stand by that wait until 50 games.
And I would say the same about H McKay he has played 50 games before comparing or Judging him against anyone.

50 games is a nice sample size to get a rough feeling about a players ability.

Fisher is a very solid player that currently and at junior level had higher output than Gallucci. Gallucci did have that more x factor, but always seemed to struggle to increase his output.
I would suggest holding back on assuming he may suddenly start finding the ball 20 times a game.

 

[Monkey King]

Does not bug me as I have seen both play and when Gallucci gets his 50 games he will be the better player. and will be around for longer.

You’ve deferred present reality in favour of an imagined future. Clearly it bugs you.

All I know is when I look at the here and now, Carlton supporters have every reason to be confident in their recruiters. Curnow and Milera; Fisher and Gallucci. Why wouldn’t we be?

 

[goBlue]

Not trying to cherry pick or be biased, but Fisher has had the higher output of the two.

I know they play different positions, but if we are talking about who has produced more and is currently better, it's fisher.

Maybe by seasons end things change

 

[Crow till I die]

Does not bug me as I have seen both play and when Gallucci gets his 50 games he will be the better player. and will be around for longer.
You will start to see that end of this year. As Gallucci will be spending more time in the middle, making the comparison more realistic.
Last year he trained with and played forward this year he training with the midfield group.

And do we factor in that Gallucci was unable to get more than 1 game in a team that won the McClelland, unlike Fisher who did not have that much competition?
It Funny I had the same argument with a Carlton Supporter last year about Doedee, my argument back then was wait until all the players have played 50 games before you look at them. and I still stand by that wait until 50 games.
And I would say the same about H McKay he has played 50 games before comparing or Judging him against anyone.

Why are we getting hung up looking at one comparison. I look at tge draft we took milera and doedee and think doedee is better already than weitering and carlton missed drafting doedee 3 times and milera just had a better year than harry mckay and carlton missed taking milera twice. So they got curnow with their 3rd pick..meaning they had him ranked at least 3rd on their list..a fail in itself as curnow is much better than mckay and weitering

 

[goBlue]

Why are we getting hung up looking at one comparison. I look at tge draft we took milera and doedee and think doedee is better already than weitering and carlton missed drafting doedee 3 times and milera just had a better year than harry mckay and carlton missed taking milera twice. So they got curnow with their 3rd pick..meaning they had him ranked at least 3rd on their list..a fail in itself as curnow is much better than mckay and weitering

As your friend says, lets wait till the players hit 50 games then talk. Doedee was the perfect replacement for lever in an already good defence. Weitering comes into the worst team and worst defence in the league and had an outstanding 1st year. If doedee came to Carlton and Weitering went to Adelaide you would be saying how good Weitering is and how bad doedee is.

Like 17 out of the 18 recruiters would've taken Weitering at #1 so not really a fail of a pick.

 

[DangerSloane]

"Easy sideways option" you got to be kidding, and at the same time your trying to tell us that Milera is a star, come on.

Can you read?
And yes Milera is a far far far superior player to Fisher. Now and always.

How can you possibly say he doesnt take the sideways option with his metres gained per possession stats?

 

[DangerSloane]

1. I really like Milera, but he is certainly currently not in the same league as Curnow

2. Robinson, Garlett, Touhy, Betts, Jacobs... names worth mentioning.

3. Galluci is showing at AFL level what he was like at junior level, low possession player with some x factor.

1. Never said he was.
2. Did you get anything more than a single second round pick for any of those? Betts was FA and you wouldnt pay him enough to stay.
3. I'll back our development team to get more out of him than that.

 

[Crow till I die]

As your friend says, lets wait till the players hit 50 games then talk. Doedee was the perfect replacement for lever in an already good defence. Weitering comes into the worst team and worst defence in the league and had an outstanding 1st year. If doedee came to Carlton and Weitering went to Adelaide you would be saying how good Weitering is and how bad doedee is.

Like 17 out of the 18 recruiters would've taken Weitering at #1 so not really a fail of a pick.

Well if we are looking at what players have done to date like a number of tge carlton posters here are doing tgen doedee is currently better than weitering. But yes 50 games is a better guide but that particular draft the crows certainly nailed their picks to date

 

[DangerSloane]

This whole conversation was in response to your self-aggrandising post talking up the Adelaide recruiters, but it’s clear in the time SOS has been recruiting they’ve made a few significant lapses. Also a theme of taking the soft, low-risk option.

If you’re comparing Milera directly with Curnow it’s a clear loss, which is what we’re debating.

I thought Adelaide had a spate of injuries in their engine room last season? Now he’s got competition from non-contributing players? He’s worse than I thought. 7 extra metres gained is neglible given their playing styles, to which Gallucci is a run-and-carry player. Clutching at the straws here.

Well if you're doing that, compare Curnow to the two players you took before him in that draft. Sounds like Carlton's recruiting team is an even bigger fail.

Wietering is looking like a genuine bust and McKay has played 15 games and shown minimal amounts.

 

[DangerSloane]

Gallucci averages 3 more metres gained per game (270 to 267).

I’ll take Fisher’s 7 extra disposals any day.

7 sideways or backwards disposals it seems.

 

[DangerSloane]

This isn’t a handicap race. The two players are being compared on what they’ve produced since being drafted because their relative draft positions in the same draft was the very basis of the comparison.

And again, no one is having a crack at Crows posters having confidence in their recruiters, but for anyone telling Carlton posters that they should have less confidence in theirs based on past drafting, here’s the reality check.

When you're comparing the difficulty of getting into the respective teams, it absolutely is a handicap race.
I'll say it again, we dont gift players games. Gooch would've played 30+ games at Carlton already.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

When you're comparing the difficulty of getting into the respective teams, it absolutely is a handicap race.
I'll say it again, we dont gift players games. Gooch would've played 30+ games at Carlton already.

Do you think he would be a better player atm at Carlton though?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Oh dear.
Milera looking like he'll be fantastic, same with Gallucci. We werent in the market for a KPF at that time.

Difference is our players don't immediately get handed 22 games first season. There's a spot to earn.

You probably thought Doedee was a bust too because he didnt play in his first 2 seasons. 2nd in the rising star this year.

Milera playing in his right position and carving it up. Curnow's been better thus far, and has shown a lot of talent.
Gooch would've performed the same if not better than Fisher given the same opportunities at CFC.

All the talk I have ever heard was that Adelaide were going to take McKay and weren’t interested in Curnow hence why Carlton went McKay with the earlier pick. I remember being pissed off because I wouldn’t have risked missing Curnow and would’ve preferred Milera over McKay.

If that’s true than you would’ve taken a KPF but maybe it’s just one of those things where people keep repeating a rumour so often it becomes fact.

 

[La Dispute]

The only handicap Gallucci has are his kicking skills.

 

[Crow till I die]

The only handicap Gallucci has are his kicking skills.

Really?. Seems to be one of the players capable of spotting up inside 50 on both feet. If his disposal is deemed poor then i want more players with 'poor' footskills like him

 

[Robertio]

Well if you're doing that, compare Curnow to the two players you took before him in that draft. Sounds like Carlton's recruiting team is an even bigger fail.

Wietering is looking like a genuine bust and McKay has played 15 games and shown minimal amounts.

The last line shows how much you know about Carlton players, time will tell.

 

[Monkey King]

When you're comparing the difficulty of getting into the respective teams, it absolutely is a handicap race.

But no one is comparing the difficulty of getting into their respective teams, so it’s a redundant notion.

The only thing being compared is their performance once they’re on the field and Gallucci played more than enough games in 2018, with more game time than Fisher, for a head to head comparison to be made. That the comparison induces dissonace in Crows supporters doesn’t change it from being what it is.

 

[Monkey King]

7 sideways or backwards disposals it seems.

At an average of 42cm per kick

 

[LemmingMaster]

1. Never said he was.
2. Did you get anything more than a single second round pick for any of those? Betts was FA and you wouldnt pay him enough to stay.
3. I'll back our development team to get more out of him than that.

2. I am sure you can google what we got in each situation. It still does not change the fact with regards to your original statement.

 

[ad victoriam]

You’ve deferred present reality in favour of an imagined future. Clearly it bugs you.

All I know is when I look at the here and now, Carlton supporters have every reason to be confident in their recruiters. Curnow and Milera; Fisher and Gallucci. Why wouldn’t we be?

Short-sighted there, If I was a Carlton supporter I would be looking at Weitering, H McKay, Curow and Fisher and Judging the recruitment staff on them, not just 2 players who has gone OK. But again it too early to call inst it.

 

[DangerSloane]

2. I am sure you can google what we got in each situation. It still does not change the fact with regards to your original statement.

Well it kinda does.
Did you actually get big value for lowly drafted players like we did with McGovern and Cameron?

You got a delisted player in Smedts and a first round pick for Tuohy and a second round pick. I'd say you lost that trade big time.
Mitch Robinson was delisted
Betts was a FA
Jacobs went for pick 33 and 67
Garlett was pick 61 and 79

So to confirm NONE of the examples you used fit the description.

Let me try again: Can you name any late Carlton draftees that were then traded to other clubs for good value?

 

[DangerSloane]

Do you think he would be a better player atm at Carlton though?

Possibly, given an extra 25 games of experience.
Depends. There is an argument over team vs exposure development. I think some players respond better to being thrown in the deep end. Some respond better to working on their flaws and game before hitting the top level.

 

[DangerSloane]

All the talk I have ever heard was that Adelaide were going to take McKay and weren’t interested in Curnow hence why Carlton went McKay with the earlier pick. I remember being pissed off because I wouldn’t have risked missing Curnow and would’ve preferred Milera over McKay.

If that’s true than you would’ve taken a KPF but maybe it’s just one of those things where people keep repeating a rumour so often it becomes fact.

From what I heard we were always going Milera. Lacking speed and ball use at the time and thats exactly what he provides.
Also being an SA kid, it was fairly well a no-brainer.

I mean Curnow, Hipwood, Himmelberg were all available when we picked up Milera.

 

[DangerSloane]

The last line shows how much you know about Carlton players, time will tell.

I've seen plenty of both.

Wietering actually looks like he has no idea what hes doing right now. I'm not sure what happened to him after a good first year.
I've never seen a player look so confused/lost out on the ground.

McKay looks like hes not quite ready. He hasn't shown a great deal in his time in the senior side. Couple of multiple goal games, but to me he's a similar level to Sam Wiederman at the moment.
Lets face it he's not looked as good as any of: Curnow, Hipwood, or even Himmelberg who were all drafted after him.

 

[DangerSloane]

At an average of 42cm per kick

So it seems...
You cant bring stats into it and then just ignore the other ones.
He's not doing anything with his 7 extra disposals, which is clearly evident from the metres gained stat.
Which is even worse when you realise he's been playing midfield where Galluci has been playing forward.