Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[OddYears]

I respect you for doubling down.

You are wrong.

First quarter: 5.3 to 0.2 4 cats without a possession. 47% kicking efficiency. You can't expect to win a final with that sort of pathetic start. Melbourne set up the win from there.

Do you really think we would've won had the 3 instances you brought up played out differently? You're talking about what if's. So what if Melbourne kicked straight throughout the rest of the match. It really is hard for some people to grasp reality around here.

And to lay the boots into selwood for the free, he had 7 contested possessions up to around the 20 minute mark of the first quarter 4 more than anyone else.

 

[Nickoo]

Of course he was. No one wins a Carji in an average year. It’s more to point out that the system of voting by the coaches lends itself to unconscious bias. Enough to influence the result? I doubt it - he was fairly unlucky not to receive an AA jumper in my opinion.

There is always unconscious bias in any subjective scoring system. I doubt however training impacts much in the scoring except if it’s a dead heat and someone deserves it more. Blics did allot of 1%er’s last year. A well timed interrupting hand became his calling card. Don’t personally like his hairstyle but each to their own, he played well and I can only think of Tom Stewart had equal impact but he finished 6th with AA honours.


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[you pick one]

Blits 2 Bartel 0 something has changed.

 

[Landgraft]

First quarter: 5.3 to 0.2 4 cats without a possession. 47% kicking efficiency. You can't expect to win a final with that sort of pathetic start. Melbourne set up the win from there.

Not all that different score-wise from the start of the GF. Yes we were significantly disadvantaged, no it was not over.

Do you really think we would've won had the 3 instances you brought up played out differently?

If everything else remained unchanged then no, probably not. But these were moments that turned the game in Melbourne's favour, reverse that momentum and there can be knock-on consequences down the line.

You're talking about what if's. So what if Melbourne kicked straight throughout the rest of the match.

Melbourne kicked quite well on the night. 10.11 from shots with 4 rushed behinds, and quite a respectable shot plot. There's no real reason to think their kicking on goal was holding them back.

It really is hard for some people to grasp reality around here.

What do you think reality is? I have no trouble with accepting what happened, but that should not be taken to mean that events were inevitable. Believing fervently in a single possible outcome seems very much at odds with reason to me.

And to lay the boots into selwood for the free, he had 7 contested possessions up to around the 20 minute mark of the first quarter 4 more than anyone else.

No player is above having their worst moments called out, not even our captain. Superb as he may have been at times, we needed more from him in that moment and instead he cost us.

Do not mistake that for me thinking Joel is anything short of superb. Because he absolutely is.

 

[OddYears]

Not all that different score-wise from the start of the GF. Yes we were significantly disadvantaged, no it was not over.



If everything else remained unchanged then no, probably not. But these were moments that turned the game in Melbourne's favour, reverse that momentum and there can be knock-on consequences down the line.



Melbourne kicked quite well on the night. 10.11 from shots with 4 rushed behinds, and quite a respectable shot plot. There's no real reason to think their kicking on goal was holding them back.

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What do you think reality is? I have no trouble with accepting what happened, but that should not be taken to mean that events were inevitable. Believing fervently in a single possible outcome seems very much at odds with reason to me.



No player is above having their worst moments called out, not even our captain. Superb as he may have been at times, we needed more from him in that moment and instead he cost us.

Do not mistake that for me thinking Joel is anything short of superb. Because he absolutely is.

It was all over after the first quarter. Pretty easy to see that. Doesn't matter if it was a similar score to the first quarter of the grand final as that has nothing to do with the cats dees game.

If you want to cling on to your reasoning that if Selwood doesn't give away the free, we win, then so be it. Enjoy the fantasy world.

 

[Landgraft]

It was all over after the first quarter. Pretty easy to see that. Doesn't matter if it was a similar score to the first quarter of the grand final as that has nothing to do with the cats dees game.

If you want to cling on to your reasoning that if Selwood doesn't give away the free, we win, then so be it. Enjoy the fantasy world.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume something physically prevented you from actually reading my post.

Know that I am here for you in your struggles against this vague adversity.

 

[OddYears]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume something physically prevented you from actually reading my post.

Know that I am here for you in your struggles against this vague adversity.

haha I read it. not gonna waste time on what if's.

 

[Landgraft]

haha I read it. not gonna waste time on what if's.

And fair, you don't have to.

But that doesn't serve to support your original point.

 

[Frappe]

Blits 2 Bartel 0 something has changed.

Bit tough to compare eras.

Blicavs would have been a bit player at best in our run 2007-2011 - in my opinion before anyone stains their pant.

GAS one 1 B&F incredibly.

 

[Frappe]

Bit tough to compare eras.

Blicavs would have been a bit player at best in our run 2007-2011 - in my opinion before anyone stains their pant.

GAS one 1 B&F incredibly.

Maybe that's your point - I don't mind Blicavs but for mine 2015 and 2018 were weak years. We could cite more examples no doubt.

 

[David the Cat]

It was all over after the first quarter. Pretty easy to see that..

I completely understand where you're coming from here....It had been some time since I had felt such disgust at a Geelong performance as at quarter time in the EF.....and I think our common feelings that the game was over probably stemmed from similar instances previously endured by Cat fans in finals...

That said, the game wasn't over at 1/4 time...even though it played out that way. We had chances but just weren't good enough, often enough, to get back into it.

The Selwood "mugging" as he was headed to the bench and the decision against him was the final nail...

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Clearly some Cats supporters are like the bombers of the late eighties and then mid nineties who wanted to sack Sheedy before he delivered another premiership in 2000 and the best choke of all time in the prelim. in ‘99. Of course they’d get their way and look at the pretty mess they got into subsequently; first Knights then......

Clearly there are problems, mainly with game style but also with players who can through their own abilities take the game on and bend it. That QF against the hawks in ‘11 was extraordinary for certain players bending it our way.


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Wrong. Some of these posters are 2007 walk-ups and can't stand the sight of the club not winning a premiership every year so they spend their miserable existence in here with their tail between their legs in search of a bone.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Wrong. Some of these posters are 2007 walk-ups and can't stand the sight of the club not winning a premiership every year so they spend their miserable existence in here with their tail between their legs in search of a bone.

Some just want us to be competitive in most finals we play.
That would be fine.

 

[cynical]

Some just want us to be competitive in most finals we play.
That would be fine.

yes be competitive in finals or rebuild the list so they will be competitive in finals

why do people who love us losing finals exaggerate so much?

 

[Ricketz]

They thrashed us in the first quarter, the first half was pretty much in their half.

They won 2 more finals than we did.

They are a young side and having played 2 finals in a row had to play a fresh WCE in Perth. Young sides can burn out in finals.

We also have a history of poor finals.

They are not even remotely comparable results.

Lol, in the second quarter, we kept them goaless! They scored 5:12 42 to 6:8 44 after quarter time. So you are wrong about that.

For all of winning two more finals, they still exited in an embarrassing manner, the worst loss of the finals series. And they brought home as many flags as we did.

They are two and a half months younger than our side on average. They are not a young side if we are not a young side. Put your bias away.

 

[Ray Donovan]

First quarter: 5.3 to 0.2 4 cats without a possession. 47% kicking efficiency. You can't expect to win a final with that sort of pathetic start. Melbourne set up the win from there.

Do you really think we would've won had the 3 instances you brought up played out differently? You're talking about what if's. So what if Melbourne kicked straight throughout the rest of the match. It really is hard for some people to grasp reality around here.

And to lay the boots into selwood for the free, he had 7 contested possessions up to around the 20 minute mark of the first quarter 4 more than anyone else.

The worst one was the 2016 prelim vs Sydney.

Sydney kicked 7.2 - 0.5

In a big game we just capitulated its frustrating because the rest of the game was relatively even on the scoreboard. Even had chances in 3rd to close the margin just too far back too much needs to go right.

You can blame the players not being prepared etc. Although the records after the bye first quarters of finals. Significant losing record in finals means the coaching panel just has a lot of work to do.

2017 prelim

Adelaide 6.3 geelong 1.2 another first quarter game over.

Nobody wins a game in the first but you can lose a game. Both years probably didnt have superior squads although we definately had squads that should of been highly competitive and much closer not just blown out.

That's the frustration for mine I believe chris scott can coach but the flipside is the record and lack of preparation or players lack of preparation that just drives me crazy.

 

[Ray Donovan]

I completely understand where you're coming from here....It had been some time since I had felt such disgust at a Geelong performance as at quarter time in the EF.....and I think our common feelings that the game was over probably stemmed from similar instances previously endured by Cat fans in finals...

That said, the game wasn't over at 1/4 time...even though it played out that way. We had chances but just weren't good enough, often enough, to get back into it.

The Selwood "mugging" as he was headed to the bench and the decision against him was the final nail...

2016
2017

Prelims were both pretty disgusting

 

[Partridge]

It's funny, because when we finish higher on the ladder and capitulate in a final it is all doom and gloom.

But despite Melbourne's horrible loss, they are streets ahead of us.

Only someone who wants to see virtue in other teams could say their loss was better than ours.

Let's see.

They comfortably beat us. Then they even more comfortably beat Hawthorn. Then a horrible loss to West Coast.

So two very good wins plus one terrible loss, versus us with one poor loss. And they finished three spots higher on the ladder.

Yes it's obvious we're far superior.

 

[Ricketz]

Let's see.

They comfortably beat us. Then they even more comfortably beat Hawthorn. Then a horrible loss to West Coast.

So two very good wins plus one terrible loss, versus us with one poor loss. And they finished three spots higher on the ladder.

Yes it's obvious we're far superior.

Not sure why you are trying to reframe the conversation. Your camp is the one arguing they are far superior.

I'm happy for all of the negative Nancy's on this board to gun for other teams, but I'm certainly not going to let ridiculous one sided pro-opposition comments dominate these threads.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Not sure why you are trying to reframe the conversation. Your camp is the one arguing they are far superior.

I'm happy for all of the negative Nancy's on this board to gun for other teams, but I'm certainly not going to let ridiculous one sided pro-opposition comments dominate these threads.

Apart from the real crap teams I dont think anyone is far superior to anyone.
Some times are on the way up though, even if just slightly, and some are falling away.
Obviously everyone improves in a way, but if you take a look at us, last year we lost Motlop for Gaz and Kelly, plus Blitz found his spot, plus Hawkins had a his best year in ages.
That is a net improvement yet we still slid down.
This year just to stay where we are we need all those players and Stewart to play at least the same level, Danger and Selwood to stay at least the same level, and real improvement from a lot of youngsters.
And that's just to stay where we are.
It's easy to see why people would have Melbourne finishing ahead of us.
They should! If not it's a massive fail from them. Not that a Melbourne fail would surprise me.

 

[Ricketz]

Apart from the real crap teams I dont think anyone is far superior to anyone.
Some times are on the way up though, even if just slightly, and some are falling away.
Obviously everyone improves in a way, but if you take a look at us, last year we lost Motlop for Gaz and Kelly, plus Blitz found his spot, plus Hawkins had a his best year in ages.
That is a net improvement yet we still slid down.
This year just to stay where we are we need all those players and Stewart to play at least the same level, Danger and Selwood to stay at least the same level, and real improvement from a lot of youngsters.
And that's just to stay where we are.
It's easy to see why people would have Melbourne finishing ahead of us.
They should! If not it's a massive fail from them. Not that a Melbourne fail would surprise me.

Why? What about their list shows they have more improvement in them than ours?

I mean, our first and second year players who stepped up last year were arguably far better than Melbourne's youth. Henry, Parfitt, Stewart, Kelly all had great seasons.

Danger and Selwood won't drop out put, Ablett is proving ageless, as is Hawkins. We have two gun KPDs who are fighting for a spot and our biggest deficiency in the forward line has been addressed.

Melbourne have a very similar list profile. It just astounds me that people here would prefer to see the light in their list, while damning ours for being practically the same. If anything, ours is more balanced around the 25 to 30 yo bracket.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Why? What about their list shows they have more improvement in them than ours?

I mean, our first and second year players who stepped up last year were arguably far better than Melbourne's youth. Henry, Parfitt, Stewart, Kelly all had great seasons.

Danger and Selwood won't drop out put, Ablett is proving ageless, as is Hawkins. We have two gun KPDs who are fighting for a spot and our biggest deficiency in the forward line has been addressed.

Melbourne have a very similar list profile. It just astounds me that people here would prefer to see the light in their list, while damning ours for being practically the same. If anything, ours is more balanced around the 25 to 30 yo bracket.

Your 3rd paragraph sort of answers your first one.
I dunno, I hope your right but if I had to bet my hard earned on one finishing above it would be them.
Agree on Kelly, while I'm talking about hard earned. I'd be putting money on him for the Brownlow.
Another pre season and playing for that Eagles contract. I think he'll have a phenomenal year.

 

[Ricketz]

Your 3rd paragraph sort of answers your first one.
I dunno, I hope your right but if I had to bet my hard earned on one finishing above it would be them.
Agree on Kelly, while I'm talking about hard earned. I'd be putting money on him for the Brownlow.
Another pre season and playing for that Eagles contract. I think he'll have a phenomenal year.

But that third paragraph is a case in point. They have a bunch of 30 to 32 year olds too, except they are nowhere near the quality of ours. But you seem to think our far better older players will drop, ignoring the fact that their guys (Lewis, Jones, Garlett, Hibberd) are bit players at best and already on the downslide.

Anyway, I also hope I am right and you are wrong. I have faith in our boys.

 

[Partridge]

Why? What about their list shows they have more improvement in them than ours?

I mean, our first and second year players who stepped up last year were arguably far better than Melbourne's youth. Henry, Parfitt, Stewart, Kelly all had great seasons.

Danger and Selwood won't drop out put, Ablett is proving ageless, as is Hawkins. We have two gun KPDs who are fighting for a spot and our biggest deficiency in the forward line has been addressed.

Melbourne have a very similar list profile. It just astounds me that people here would prefer to see the light in their list, while damning ours for being practically the same. If anything, ours is more balanced around the 25 to 30 yo bracket.

We disagree about that. Dangerfield and Selwood both dropped in output last year. Dangerfield was extremely fortunate to get All Australian selection (he wasn't nominated among the MVP candidates even by Geelong players). Ablett is not ageless, and he absolutely played some great games (and I'd argue had a pretty good season overall), but he's not the same player. We also saw that with those three in the midfield together their defensive weaknesses got exposed. Hawkins definitely had a great year, but again, time does catch up with everyone. If the "two gun KPDs" are Henderson and Taylor, again, we disagree.

Regarding your last point, if you mean the acquisition of Dahlhaus and Rohan makes up for the forward line pressure (the "deficiency in the forward line"), there's not a scrap of evidence for that as yet. They haven't played a game. They may. They also may not. Rohan is close to the competition's biggest perennial underachiever. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[OddYears]

The worst one was the 2016 prelim vs Sydney.

Sydney kicked 7.2 - 0.5

In a big game we just capitulated its frustrating because the rest of the game was relatively even on the scoreboard. Even had chances in 3rd to close the margin just too far back too much needs to go right.

You can blame the players not being prepared etc. Although the records after the bye first quarters of finals. Significant losing record in finals means the coaching panel just has a lot of work to do.

2017 prelim

Adelaide 6.3 geelong 1.2 another first quarter game over.

Nobody wins a game in the first but you can lose a game. Both years probably didnt have superior squads although we definately had squads that should of been highly competitive and much closer not just blown out.

That's the frustration for mine I believe chris scott can coach but the flipside is the record and lack of preparation or players lack of preparation that just drives me crazy.

Spot on.