- Nov 12, 2015
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Really how fortunate are we as a supporter group, we've probably had 2 of our Greatest coaches back to back.
Opinion Bomber Thompson vs Chris Scott
- Thread starter Gydafud
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This is surely rare to ever occur for a club. Only one I can think of is Hawthorn: Jeans then Joyce got 5 flags between them in consecutive reigns.
22 years and going between just the two consecutive coaches in itself must be a rarity.
Thompson slightly ahead of Scott - IF Scott wins another premiership he moves ahead.
- Jan 25, 2008
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Joyce was an average coach. He had a good year as a caretaker coach and then did very little after that.
- Jan 25, 2008
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From recent memory, Paul Roos followed by Longmire at Sydney is a pretty good pair.
- Jan 25, 2008
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Reg Hickey followed by Bobby Davis is a pretty good also
- Nov 12, 2015
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1 and 1 vs 2 and 2.
Good pair, agreed, but still not at the level of Bomber and Scott. Rare air.
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This 2022 Scott coached side attack the game like a Bomber Thompson Cats side.Can't split them and no need to.
I think Scott gets the marginal nod, but it is close, they are both exceptional coaches. The following is my analysis.
Bomber:
pros-
Cons-
Scott:
Pros
Cons:
I give Scott the nod simply because Scott had much more adversity and challenges to work with to obtain two flags, where as Thompson fell short due to being outsmarted by other coaches over those years, but enormous credit has to be given to getting there, although with heavy assistance from the likes of wells and coaching staff.
Bomber:
pros-
- was a good development coach
- came up with a good initial strategy to overcome the defensive food tactics of west coast and Sydney.
- Put a lot of faith in the playing group and established a great culture
- his long-term planning and visions were sound and set us on the right path from the get-go. Examples of going down the path of wanting to recruit bigger bodied midfielders and flushing out the mature players we had at the time was the right calls others probably wouldn't have made.
- the players were very fond of him
Cons-
- not the best communicator
- was tactically not a top coach. Got consistently outcoached on the chess board by Clarkson malthouse and Ross Lyon in particular.
- was not great at adapting the game plan after 2007.
- had a lot of premium support that shouldered a lot of the work in development coaches and heavy hitters at the top of the administrative chain in Brian cook and co. He was heavily supported with the best.
Scott:
Pros
- excellent communicator
- extremely resilient
- highly regarded industry wide as one of the best if not the best coaching strategist in the business.
- worked with a playing scenario that is historically a period of mass decline and had them consistently competing for a flag year in year out.
- highly adaptive game plan that maximizes team strengths and covers deficiencies
- very humble
Cons:
- has also had incredible support around to help him during this phase
- very fortunate to have turned into a destination club with free agency and trading which has assisted his situation outside his control
- is a more introverted style intellectual deep thinking character which seems to have come across as less social or warm to aspects of the playing group over the years in particular reported isolation from the youth group.
I give Scott the nod simply because Scott had much more adversity and challenges to work with to obtain two flags, where as Thompson fell short due to being outsmarted by other coaches over those years, but enormous credit has to be given to getting there, although with heavy assistance from the likes of wells and coaching staff.
It goes to show just how unbelievably important it is to have the best in the business higher up selecting your future coach and handling the process.
I also like the fact we have not once gone for an experienced coach, we tend to opt for very young vibrant coaches who are diamonds in the rough type with potential off the charts. We don’t go for that obvious candidate everyone bangs on about in the media. We get coaches well ahead of their time.
The coaching selection panel goes left field and the correct choice much like the 007 panel picking the next bond who nailed Daniel Craig for the role.
I just put a huge asterisk next to anything Sydney achieves simply because of having a premium academy pumping out high end draft talent every year or so is such an unfair edge it discredits a lot they do
- Jan 25, 2008
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The more I think about it the key difference lies in their strengths
You could honestly have a scenario with both working harmoniously together with Thompson looking after the list management and vision side of things in terms of direction recruiting and some coaching involvement like a head of coaching role, then just leave the nitty gritty coaching technicalities like strategy up to Scott, you maximize the best of the two.
- bomber is an elite planner and visionary who created a blueprint that nailed it entirely.
- Scott is a master tactician and strategist
You could honestly have a scenario with both working harmoniously together with Thompson looking after the list management and vision side of things in terms of direction recruiting and some coaching involvement like a head of coaching role, then just leave the nitty gritty coaching technicalities like strategy up to Scott, you maximize the best of the two.
Fair enough. Do you think the swans would be where they are now without the academy kids?
- Jan 25, 2008
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Yes
They are well drilled, are consistent in approach and maximise their player's output vs potential.
Each club has advantages. We are able to convince players to take less cash so they can enjoy the lifestyle benefits and club culture. Are you suggesting we should have a lower salary cap to compensate?
Apples and oranges.
I make a clear distinguishment between being good at something and having an unfair advantage. Being skilled and well run to the point we have made geelong a destination club goes back to the effort over many years we have put into developing the community and also riding the fluctuating highs and lows with the club. These things also eb and flow significantly to the point others become destinations at some point with real estate trends.
An unfair advantage is something like the Sydney academy, a system that absolutely is exclusively a Sydney swans thing that no other club has the opportunity to access no matter how well run or operated, and it is not an environmental fluctuation like father sons or area trends etc that swings and roundabouts at some point for all. just a pure luxury advantage exclusive for Sydney and the GC.
Hence my * next to Sydney
They are literally the only other club in existence besides our own who have been anywhere near as consistently good as us for as long as we have - possibly west coast aside. Since Lockett dragged them to the 96 grand fi so they have virtually never bottomed out and this is not reliant on their academy.
It’s because they have a fantastic club culture, they squeeze every last drop out of every individual who sets foot at Moore Park. Yeah sure they land the odd gun from their academy. Same as other clubs land the odd gun through whatever other means they get them.
Hell, we like to wank on about how we picked up Tom Stewart and everyone else missed him: WE missed him too. We were just lucky he was still available when we got him.
Sydney are class and they haven’t been any more advantaged by luck or good fortune than anyone else
- Jan 25, 2008
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Ok, so why then are Sydney always good and gc are always s**t?
Every club has their advantages. Some clubs maximise them, other clubs piss them away.
Asterisks are a crock of s**t.
I’m not saying they don’t have a fantastic club culture that plays into it, but you can’t ignore the exclusive access of top ten and first round talent via an academy and The impact it has, then the millions via COLA prior to that.
If not for this they may still be all the things you mention, I just highly question whether they would be constantly a contending top four side that doesn’t slide.
Do you truly believe if you remove mills heeney blakey Warner gulden from that side they would have made the top four let alone GF?? I highly question that.
I think culture and all the good things about Sydney absolutely does come into it as you pointed out the troubles with GC and retention problems. Gold coasts issues bat quite deep and the advantage of an exclusive academy ( mind you a weaker one) still is not enough given the poor operations
There is no way to prove it one way or the other but history suggests whoever they slide into those spots would do a good job anyway.
I also don’t get why COLA gets sneered at.
Let’s say you have two children, both going to a school function.
One of them is going to Mc Donald’s, the other is going to a restaurant.
Do you give the two kids the same amount of money and tell the one who’s function is at a restaurant ‘too bad - you’re just getting what he is getting.’
I doubt it. That’s how I see COLA.
Sydney IS a shithole to live in and property prices are utterly ridiculous. Worse still the places on its fringes are no cheaper.
So I had no problem with some extra dispensation being given for that reason
jim boy
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Different coaches who had to deal with different challenges, the question is really only interesting if it is a bare knuckle fight to the death.
FWIW Chris Scott can get really worked up and has a methodical cunning combined with a frenzied attack. Bomber might give away an inch or two but probably harder to stop and a vicious upper cut. Line ball but if I had to put my money on one of them, then I'd put it on the bomber.
FWIW Chris Scott can get really worked up and has a methodical cunning combined with a frenzied attack. Bomber might give away an inch or two but probably harder to stop and a vicious upper cut. Line ball but if I had to put my money on one of them, then I'd put it on the bomber.
Bomber was great.
But Scott for me.
But Scott for me.
I think it is a reasonable thread title - it is only a footy forum
I like remembering ( because if it gives you a bit of a guide ) what some players say about coaches at certain times
Now when Geel won the 2011 premiership - Brad Ottens said - look Scotty has been like a breath of fresh air . I have consistently posted that Scott deserves tremendous credit for the 11 flag - all this bull shiit he was gifted it - he took over a team ( minus Gary Ablett) which got absolutely thumped in the 2010 PF
And Scott deserves alot of credit for this years flag . My only criticism - he would pick favourites at times - like Dahlhous for the entire 21 season - then finally axed him for the PF
The other criticism i had of C Scott over the journey - well we are all seeing how Hardwick behaves (re coaching ) today - well about 4 years ago approx that was C Scott - a very sore and bitter loser - who begrudgingly gave credit to opposition teams . Scott hasnt been like that the past 2-3 years - but Hardwick is today 1000% that - a real wowser
As for Mark Thompson ( and im totally ignoring the off field stuff ) - i can remember Mathew Lloyd asking Tom Hawkins - how do you find Bomber - and his one word answer was- Intimidating - well i think that is a great compliment for a coach - the old Norm Smith - Barassi - Leigh Mathews approach - dont get too close to your players - keep them on their toes and all the rest of it .
Thompson was a different sort of coach to alot - i can remember Neil Balme saying that - look he doesnt get excited . And he was prepared to drop big name players for big games - eg Andrew Mackie
You have to give to one of them the nod - and i will give it to Chris Scott . My tie breaker system - i dont like people talking in the 3rd person - and ive never heard Chris Scott say - look whats best for Chris Scott - is blah blah blah - but i have heard Mark Thompson talk like that - and im not fond of that at all
I like remembering ( because if it gives you a bit of a guide ) what some players say about coaches at certain times
Now when Geel won the 2011 premiership - Brad Ottens said - look Scotty has been like a breath of fresh air . I have consistently posted that Scott deserves tremendous credit for the 11 flag - all this bull shiit he was gifted it - he took over a team ( minus Gary Ablett) which got absolutely thumped in the 2010 PF
And Scott deserves alot of credit for this years flag . My only criticism - he would pick favourites at times - like Dahlhous for the entire 21 season - then finally axed him for the PF
The other criticism i had of C Scott over the journey - well we are all seeing how Hardwick behaves (re coaching ) today - well about 4 years ago approx that was C Scott - a very sore and bitter loser - who begrudgingly gave credit to opposition teams . Scott hasnt been like that the past 2-3 years - but Hardwick is today 1000% that - a real wowser
As for Mark Thompson ( and im totally ignoring the off field stuff ) - i can remember Mathew Lloyd asking Tom Hawkins - how do you find Bomber - and his one word answer was- Intimidating - well i think that is a great compliment for a coach - the old Norm Smith - Barassi - Leigh Mathews approach - dont get too close to your players - keep them on their toes and all the rest of it .
Thompson was a different sort of coach to alot - i can remember Neil Balme saying that - look he doesnt get excited . And he was prepared to drop big name players for big games - eg Andrew Mackie
You have to give to one of them the nod - and i will give it to Chris Scott . My tie breaker system - i dont like people talking in the 3rd person - and ive never heard Chris Scott say - look whats best for Chris Scott - is blah blah blah - but i have heard Mark Thompson talk like that - and im not fond of that at all
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