Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury – A comparison (AKA The AFL fixture system is an unfunny joke)

[Hinkley29]

Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury

10

Scott Pendlebury

Age

36

Ht

191cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.5

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

13.3

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.9

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

CL

3.6

4star

D

12.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

4.8

4star

M

5.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

are undeniably 2 champions of our game. This post is not meant to be a slight or celebration of either player. It is however really interesting to look at both of their careers and marvel at the differing treatment each player has been given by the AFL via a crazy fixture system.

Joel was drafted at pick 7 in the 2006 AFL Draft (thanks Hawthorn….Mitch Thorpe…..tee hee). Scott was drafted at pick 5 in the 2005 AFL Draft. Joel made his debut in round 1 2007, Scott debuted in Round 10 2006. Joel retired at the end of a 2022 with 355 games under his belt (245 as captain), Scott is still going with 375 games currently (just over 200 as captain).

All in all they have been in the league for a similar amount of time and played a similar number of games. However, some high level info about where they played their games makes for staggering reading.

Before reading this, please keep in mind that the AFL system (as with almost every self-respecting sporting league in the world) is designed around a home and away regular season PLUS home and away finals in order to crown a champion at the end of the season.

Check out these stats:

Joel Selwood

• Games played - 355
• Games played at Kardinia Park – 111
• % of games played at Notional Home Ground – 31.3%
• Games played at MCG - 102
• Finals Games played – 40
• Finals Games at Notional Home Ground – 1
• % of finals games played at Notional Home Ground – 2.5%

Scott Pendlebury

• Games Played – 375
• Games Played at MCG – 234
• % of games played at Notional Home Ground – 62.4%
• Games played at Kardinia Park – Nil
• Finals Games Played – 28
• Finals Games Played at Notional Home Ground – 21
• % of finals games played at Notional Home Ground – 75.0%

If we take out the block of COVID games in 2020 where all teams were relocated into hubs, Pendlebury’s % of finals home games increases to 82.1%, and % of career games played at the MCG increases to 64.5%.

Joel played against Collingwood 27 times in his career. 25 of them were at the MCG, 1 was at Perth Stadium and 1 was at the GABBA. None of them were at Kardinia Park.
Scott has played against Geelong 26 times in his career. 24 of them were at the MCG, 1 was at Perth Stadium and 1 was at the GABBA. None of them were at Kardinia Park.

I know this is not exactly breaking news, however the AFL will never be taken seriously whilst this fixturing policy remains.

And I don’t buy the “maximising fan access to the games” angle. If it is ok for Manchester United to play away games at Burnley at their 20k seat stadium (whilst Manchester United's ground Old Trafford with 75k capacity remains unused 35 miles away) then surely Collingwood can play away games at Geelong.

Try explaining the Selwood vs Pendlebury comparison to a fan of any other sporting code around the world. They would laugh you out of the bar.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

Great post and it is ridiculous the AFLs policy. Even harder for interstate clubs with the long flights because MCG is almost like our 2nd home ground.
On the flip side the more practice we get at the MCG the better in terms of finals / GF.

 

[GeelongFTW]

Unfair sure but something tells me that pendles would switch his record for joel's (4 flags vs 1 flag) ...

 

[Turbocat]

Inside stats there are always other stats.

The nominal home game thing. Geelong are hardly forced to play home games at the G. Recently when we reached 80,000 members I think it was noted that 35% of the members are geelong based. If we had all our home games in geelong what would it cost us?


There are inequities in our system for all teams ... and being Collingwood player probably gives plenty of advantages over playing at most clubs and if one plays for the Suns etc ..it probably looks even more dire.

 

[STPer18]

Good post.

Also Selwood without a second of hesitation.

 

[Hinkley29]

Inside stats there are always other stats.

The nominal home game thing. Geelong are hardly forced to play home games at the G. Recently when we reached 80,000 members I think it was noted that 35% of the members are geelong based. If we had all our home games in geelong what would it cost us?


There are inequities in our system for all teams ... and being Collingwood player probably gives plenty of advantages over playing at most clubs and if one plays for the Suns etc ..it probably looks even more dire.

I am fairly certain that Geelong have said recently that they would prefer 11/12 home games at KP every season. I am also fairly certain that we make more from a full house at KP than 75k at the MCG.

Regardless, the AFL should tell us that we are a Geelong based team and we need to play our home games at our home ground. Why should WC/GC/GWS/Freo play at KP every season and Collingwood never play there? It is ridiculous.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

4>1

Only numbers that count

 

[catswhiskers]

Nice work. Just shows we have a fixture with in built bias rather than an even draw.

Supporters of Collingwood get a very nice deal.

This year 16 games at MCG.
= 16 games /23 on their patch and I believe members even get to use their same prime seat for the 11 home games AND 5 games where opponent is at home.

How is playing one away game at KP a disadvantage for their supporter base ?
It just decreases their obvious advantage.

GFC get at best 9 / 23 at KP atm.

This should change next year. The argument that CFC are being DISadvantaged is even more spurious.
GMHBA is open for business. 38k in Geelong and Collingwood supporters welcome.

 

[Turbocat]

I am fairly certain that Geelong have said recently that they would prefer 11/12 home games at KP every season. I am also fairly certain that we make more from a full house at KP than 75k at the MCG.

Regardless, the AFL should tell us that we are a Geelong based team and we need to play our home games at our home ground. Why should WC/GC/GWS/Freo play at KP every season and Collingwood never play there? It is ridiculous.

The comp is what it is.

The afl own one of the grounds ..the mcg have contracts requiring x number of games. Not every club has their own ground like in Premier Leauge. They have their own culture. Their clubs are privately own ..gees look at Spurs home ground that Ange now plays his home games at. The population probably means that there is more supporters but they seem to have so many teams accross so many divisions. I mean I think their is only 6 kms between ManU and ManCitys ground. I cant see them joing to have a 120,000 seats stadium like we would here.

11 home games in geelong. Has the ever happened? I think maybe the best we have ever had was 10. I will have to listen to StHock next time he talks about it

 

[StonedCat]

I hope I'm wrong but this new AFL boss doesn't fill me with confidence that the situation will get any better.

 

[goyoucatters]

I am fairly certain that Geelong have said recently that they would prefer 11/12 home games at KP every season. I am also fairly certain that we make more from a full house at KP than 75k at the MCG.

Regardless, the AFL should tell us that we are a Geelong based team and we need to play our home games at our home ground. Why should WC/GC/GWS/Freo play at KP every season and Collingwood never play there? It is ridiculous.

It's certainly been stated in the past that you need a crowd of this magnitude at the 'G to make the figures comparable. And our increased capacity from 2024 will make the issue even more glaring.

So I will be quite surprised if the club doesn't follow through on the public messaging from the coach some years ago and make an explicit request for 11 home games at GMHBA in the future.

'What's right is inconvenient': Scott

Chris Scott has hit back at Gillon McLachlan's furphies that the Cats should play home finals at the MCG.

www.geelongcats.com.au

Our fixture request is crystal-clear, 11 home games at GHMBA, the same as every other club, they should have the right to play their 11 home games where they choose.

"We want them to be here. If the AFL fixture us at the MCG, then that's our next best.

'What's right is inconvenient': Scott

Chris Scott has hit back at Gillon McLachlan's furphies that the Cats should play home finals at the MCG.

www.geelongcats.com.au

 

[Goggin Our Best]

The comp is what it is.

The afl own one of the grounds ..the mcg have contracts requiring x number of games. Not every club has their own ground like in Premier Leauge. They have their own culture. Their clubs are privately own ..gees look at Spurs home ground that Ange now plays his home games at. The population probably means that there is more supporters but they seem to have so many teams accross so many divisions. I mean I think their is only 6 kms between ManU and ManCitys ground. I cant see them joing to have a 120,000 seats stadium like we would here.

11 home games in geelong. Has the ever happened? I think maybe the best we have ever had was 10. I will have to listen to StHock next time he talks about it

Excellent Post

And re your point Premier League clubs - or even English Championship clubs and lower - there has been horrendous examples where the private owner - and not just recently with the real big money - but years back - well the private owner owns everything lock stock and barrel including the ground and training ovals . And clubs have gone broke and they have lost their ground

Imagine KP - You lose it - plus if they owned St Marys as a training oval - it would be gonzo as well

 

[catempire]

Keep pushing until fairness prevails.

 

[Hinkley29]

The comp is what it is.

The afl own one of the grounds ..the mcg have contracts requiring x number of games. Not every club has their own ground like in Premier Leauge. They have their own culture. Their clubs are privately own ..gees look at Spurs home ground that Ange now plays his home games at. The population probably means that there is more supporters but they seem to have so many teams accross so many divisions. I mean I think their is only 6 kms between ManU and ManCitys ground. I cant see them joing to have a 120,000 seats stadium like we would here.

11 home games in geelong. Has the ever happened? I think maybe the best we have ever had was 10. I will have to listen to StHock next time he talks about it

It is true that not every afl team has their own home ground.

But every afl team has A home ground.

And teams should play all their home games at their home ground. If they want to or not. It is the only way we can get even close to an equitable fixture.

 

[Seeds]

4>1

Only numbers that count

Well no it matters who was the actual better player.

shannon byrnes did not controbute more to football then gary ablett senior as an extreme example.

and for me selwood wins the better player contest too.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

This - Collingwood should play Geel at Kardinia Park arguement - which some posters are pushing for - you know its not fair blah blah blah blah

Well i can remember 2011 very fondly - a Geel Premiership year - and i think most Geel supporters can also remember very fondly - the last home and away game of that season - the Cats flogged the Magpies by 96 pts - they dont even have to check the record book - because that 96 pt decisive margin is etched in their brain

I dont know whose home game that was - but for mine - you could not get a better tune up for the finals and as it turned out the GF - playing the no 1 team at the home of the GF - the MCG In the final round of the home and away season

And i think it is fair comment to say - that 96 pt win over Coll at MCG would have given the Geel players tremendous confidence when they played Coll in the GF that year

 

[bulletproof]

Just floating an alternate idea, are Docklands sides similarly disadvantaged? Or worse, no home final and no real home ground advantage either.

 

[Vdubs]

Keep pushing until fairness prevails.

Absolutely impossible.
Will NEVER happen in our lifetimes including our paediatric supporters.
Unlike the EPL, we will never see a situation where each team plays each team twice in a home and away season, and I suggest we will also NEVER see a situation where each club has its own unique home ground.

 

[catempire]

Absolutely impossible.
Will NEVER happen in our lifetimes including our paediatric supporters.
Unlike the EPL, we will never see a situation where each team plays each team twice in a home and away season, and I suggest we will also NEVER see a situation where each club has its own unique home ground.

The only thing standing in the way is $$$ and the fact that it’s convenient for 17 other teams to wilfully disadvantage us.

There’s nothing at all “impossible” about it.

 

[Vdubs]

The only thing standing in the way is $$$ and the fact that it’s convenient for 17 other teams to wilfully disadvantage us.

There’s nothing at all “impossible” about it.

What is IT that you are referring to? A fair competition? It is totally impossible.
Can you describe how it could ever become fair with 18, 19 teams?

Anyway, it is farcical looking at the Selwood Pendles HGA at finals comparison, but as players, they are certainly worth comparing.

 

[bulletproof]

A lot of those Prelim Final thumpings over last decade would have been Grand Final thumpings if we did get the same rights as interstate teams.

I think you have to be very good to win a Grand Final if you are non MCG tenant (maybe Eagles of 17 a case where this didn’t hold), where as a MCG team can fall into a extra Flag with home ground advantage.

Always thought Richmond and Hawks got very full value out of their time in contention. Though Richmond did win one at the Gabba (lest we forget). Probably holds more for Hawks than Tigers.

So Collingwood over next 3 years is an interesting watch.

 

[catempire]

What is IT that you are referring to? A fair competition? It is totally impossible.
Can you describe how it could ever become fair with 18, 19 teams?

Anyway, it is farcical looking at the Selwood Pendles HGA at finals comparison, but as players, they are certainly worth comparing.

Fairness in the context of this discussion is every team playing the same number of home games at their home ground.

There are other things that affect fairness too. I agree they are hard to eliminate with an 18 team competition and a 24 round H&A season. Any “solution” (eg. Reducing the number of games, increasing the number of games or rotating who gets the single home game across seasons) is imperfect and won’t deliver true fairness on this front.

But just because there are Hard Things To Solve it doesn’t mean the AFL shouldn’t solve something that is absolutely simple and fair to do - give Geelong as many home games as every other club.

 

[Turbocat]

It is true that not every afl team has their own home ground.

But every afl team has A home ground.

And teams should play all their home games at their home ground. If they want to or not. It is the only way we can get even close to an equitable fixture.

We have gather round..we have game being sold and we have teams where they have duality of domain. Its in Geelong interest to play games at the G. Not only for the home gate but the chance to play at the game where finals are decided is an advantage that should not be easily dismissed. One might say we have the best of both worlds. A home ground where have a strong likelihood of a win and a ground where we have a couple of home games played to prepare us for the chance to play finals and to give Melbourne based members an easier chance to attend

The days of playing at Etihad as ahome game are gone. Games at the Geelong will be a strong part of our fixture but I cant see the rationale of playing Collingwood at Geelong while they are a top side. Maybe if they drop.

One big side game once a year would be nice. Historically I think Kp has 5 attendances above 40,000 and they were car , coll and ess related.
Whats more important , if Geelong can average an attendance in the 30 thousands for KP once we have the ground is done... it will be a higher average than we have ever had and probably make Geelong affluent.

 

[SkittleCats]

There is no arguing it is unfair and biased, that is the system the AFL wants. The only thing we can do (as others have said) is make it as clear as possible what our requests as a club are regarding fixturing each season: 11 home games and home finals (should we play any), regardless of opponent, at KP. This is how it works everywhere else in the world in a Home and Away system. If we dont get that, then it is because the AFL is choosing to compromise the integrity of the comp for it's own bottom line, and we should be as clear as we can be about that. The club should not be condoning the AFL's desire to have us play at the MCG. I am loathed to say it, but this is where Brian Cook failed us: He was too meek when it came to standing up to the AFL regarding where we played our home games.

Rant:
The AFL has devalued the meaning of what a home ground is, all so they can homologate crowds as much as possible for their benefit. This homologation makes for larger crowd sizes, but the corresponding revenue is distributed amongst more interests, including the AFL itself, but devalues it's relevance to the clubs who are responsible for that crowd in the first place. "Allowing fan access" has been spun as a benefit by the AFL, and because the big clubs benefit most with more games at "their" stadium, that narrative has been allowed to flourish. But that homologation has come at the expense of the one thing most teams should have control over: an actual home ground and the revenue it generates. Now it is the AFL itself who controls the purse strings for clubs, not the clubs themselves. And for smaller Melbourne clubs, that means they will always be small fish swimming in a big pond they will never properly fit into.

Even Collingwood and Richmond do not justify playing regular season games at the MCG, where nearly a third of that stadium will remain empty for most of their home and away games played there. But because of the ease of access playing at the MCG enables, the perception amongst many now is that it is a right, and not a privilege to attend a game of football, they dont even think about if they should be going, they just go, whether they are a home fan or not. Look at the response many Essendon supporters had to them playing us at KP this year: many i talked to were so annoyed that they couldnt attend, and stating that: "it is not your home game so why should you?" illicits nothing but a confused look and a total inability to articulate a response. For many, it would have been the first time they were presented with the reality that even playing an hour from Melbourne, you do not, and should not, always have the ability to simply walk into the ground on game day. Attending a game of football in Geelong benefits the Geelong Football Club alone, why should Essendon fans ever want to attend? This is the proposition many of the big Melbourne clubs supports have never been faced with in the modern era.

But because this homologation benefits the big clubs by concentrating so many games into stadiums they play at most, we will never see the media or fans really speak out about it like they should. The smaller clubs get ignored, and the bigger clubs like us are treated like spoiled children who should be happy with what we get. Our Richmond "home" finals played at the MCG, where our tickets were sold to their members and were ultimately played infront of a huge opposition crowd, would, in any other competition around the world, be intolerable. As a club we should have been enraged at that and remain so to this day (i know i do at least). But the media just shrugs off such obvious compromises to the integrity of the sport because they dont want to piss off Richmond supports, who click their article most, and it is the same with Collingwood now. Instead the narrative is "stop whinging, you should be able to win anywhere" or "be thankful you get to play at the MCG at all, you need to win the Grand Final there anyway so you should be happy".

 

[catempire]

I cant see the rationale of playing Collingwood at Geelong while they are a top side. Maybe if they drop.

Err, home ground advantage?