Hot Topic Heppell calls for patience

[hurlygurdy]

Ther

Not that we were alone (now where have I heard that before) but unfortunately salary cap breaches undermine any such claim. EFC is a great club with a great history but it also has baggage, we cant pretend it doesnt. It's a ruthless industry & most if not all successful clubs have overstepped boundaries at some point. Some get caught, some get away with it.

I'm with you on identity though, not sure I can pinpoint what it is these days. I'd love to see some mongrel back in the team, Devon Smith pushes that boundary & while he may not be captain material, I wouldn't mind someone of his ilk taking over in the near future. & that's my only critisism of Heppell, dunno if he has that in him.

Even playing with a bit of mongrel is very different depending on whether it comes from an individual concern or whether it comes from a sense of it being something the team needs. I tend to think Devons is all individual whereas someone like Hocking did it because his sense of the team called for it. Doing it for the team makes it impersonal and takes any angst out of it. Even a more placid player might play with a lot of aggression at times if they are keyed in to the team mind. It's that type of thing that is needed in my opinion, and it's out of those and other team actions that you form identity perhaps.

 

[ant555]

As far as the leadership goes I think it is a question mark. I have no real issues with Heppell but the others in the leadership group have question marks. Daniher has not really ever shown a lot of leadership. Fantasia misses a bit of footy and Zak Merritt really needs to pick up his team defence efforts. Not really what I would say is an inspiring group.

 

[JayDon]

Ther

Even playing with a bit of mongrel is very different depending on whether it comes from an individual concern or whether it comes from a sense of it being something the team needs. I tend to think Devons is all individual whereas someone like Hocking did it because his sense of the team called for it. Doing it for the team makes it impersonal and takes any angst out of it. Even a more placid player might play with a lot of aggression at times if they are keyed in to the team mind. It's that type of thing that is needed in my opinion, and it's out of those and other team actions that you form identity perhaps.

Yep, go back to 2000.
We were dangerous.
The silk could shine but the danger was always there for the opposition.
This is one reason I would always play Smack.
Begley, Francis bring it.

 

[JayDon]

TBell too.
Take no prisoners approach required.
Likely a Sheedy thing.
Woosha has that in him!
DO IT.
We have depth to cover indesretion!?
Build an uneasiness in opposition.

 

[BrunoV]

TBell too.
Take no prisoners approach required.
Likely a Sheedy thing.
Woosha has that in him!
DO IT.
We have depth to cover indesretion!?
Build an uneasiness in opposition.

Bellchambers likes to smile in the face of his opponents and be a smart arse but it's not really the same as being an imposing physical presence around the ground.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

interesting.

When I read the article i got pretty pissed off honestly. We have shown a lot of patience and we did look ******* awful over the preseason. In fact, I wrote out a whole post that was fairly scorching in tone.

But then I thought I really should listen to the actual source first before I hit that reply button, and make a genuine assessment of what he said and the context he said it in.

And I have to say, after having listened to it, I now know it's a big old load of meh.

Firstly, the context. At first I got sucked in by the article, which reads as though the club has wheeled Hepp out to dampen down expectations that let's face it, they themselves have set furiously over summer. That his message was "be patient guys". And now they are panicking and trying to lower the heat. This pissed me off enormously.

But then when I listed to the article, it turns out it's nothing like that whatsoever. It's actually an interview with the captain of the club they are featuring for their "Membership Day". So, first and foremost, this is he reason they interviewed him. Stock standard.

And as for the content: naturally, the first thing he's asked about is the JLT performance. IMO he just didn't sugar coat it, and he did say what I'd expect any player would say. That it wasn't ideal; that they are working on new stuff; it's not all going to click from day 1 (but it's pretty close anyway); and that it was preseason - practice games, and they practiced.

In fact, I thought i must be listening to the wrong interview at first, as he was actually far more positive than he was negative. it was only when a few of the verbatim quotes came through that confirmed it was in fact the source material.

This is a classic case of the media building a narrative out of an interview, and selectively taking certain quotes from it, paraphrasing them into dubious headlines. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, necessarily, I get why they do it. But as with most things, it isn't the whole story and as an Essendon fan I'm glad I actually listened to the article rather than relying on the newspaper article.

I'm still concerned that what we turned out in JLT could lead to another shitshow of an early season - but I a still leery of putting too much emphasis on practice games, and at least I now don't believe the club are trying to appease us with this interview.

JLT was a s**t show but ill be a bit more optimistic than that, we rarely do anything great in pre season. Though ill say it......anything short of a 2019 Finals win is an utter failure for mine. If the club try's to downplay that then they are kidding themselves and us.

I echo the thoughts of a very slow start to the year again, both Daniher and Hooker are injured for the best part of a month and they are crucial pieces to our spine.

If we cannot win a finals game with our current list then we might as well start re building.

 

[blitzer]

As far as the leadership goes I think it is a question mark. I have no real issues with Heppell but the others in the leadership group have question marks. Daniher has not really ever shown a lot of leadership. Fantasia misses a bit of footy and Zak Merritt really needs to pick up his team defence efforts. Not really what I would say is an inspiring group.

I'd say its a leadership group built to grow and develop over the next few years as opposed to one that is full of our most experienced players. Players like Hurley and Hooker are clearly still a major part of our team's leadership despite not having an official role.
That said I reckon the criticism on Merrett was you searching for a problem. Merrett would be in the leadership group at every club.

 

[ant555]

I'd say its a leadership group built to grow and develop over the next few years as opposed to one that is full of our most experienced players. Players like Hurley and Hooker are clearly still a major part of our team's leadership despite not having an official role.
That said I reckon the criticism on Merrett was you searching for a problem. Merrett would be in the leadership group at every club.

No mentioning Merritt is not searching for a problem. He has come through a system where accountability in defence has been very poor. Yes he makes a few tackles and plays hard at the contest. Yes his offensive game is A grade but his team defence , along with a few others, is woeful . Until he stops ball watching when the ball leaves his area and starts moving into the area on the ground where he needs to be then he has to be questioned as a leader. More so because we are trying to implement a better team defence and specifically targeted a coach to do it.

You watch how the better teams have played in the last 15 years. They have been very good at playing their role and sacrificing parts of their game. To date we have been a side that has shown limited capability in this area. We do not need a leadership group that needs to grow. Leaders lead.

I will upset a lot of supporters but I just call it by using my experiences watching countless games at all levels and the contacts I have built through working in another clubs system. I am not always right but I do tend to look at our list without emotional attachment and benchmark it against what I have learnt over the last 30 years.

Merrett would not be in the leadership group of a number clubs. Not saying he can not find what is needed but the leaders have to deliver. I suppose the flip side is the list is very bare when it comes to natural leaders. Andy McGrath is developing and if Merrett takes on more team defence then he would be. Going to be an interesting year. So much hinges on what sort of buy in we get. Things have to change. Our leaders have to be better and a few of the 3rd to 5th year players simply have to deliver.
I am seeing a melt down coming as I still think we are a year away from knowing the answers and if it is a negative as far as the likes of Langford, Laverde , Parish and co finding the next level needed then we do have an issue. You can find a number of side that have added players that will improve their game. Not going to be an easy year but the plus side may be 12 wins will make the 8 this year.

 

[fishardansin]

I think we have the problem of trying to fit a square in a round hole, because two other clubs have had success with that style.

However, between them they have won one premiership. Furthermore, Richmond and Collingwoods game plan is a work around list deficiencies. Both teams over invested in the midfield. Richmond have two very good KPPs, but both are not super tall. Collingwoods spine is shizen. That was covered by Grundy being everywhere around the ground, De Goey being a dynamic lead up forward and Cox pulling a game out of his arse on the 2nd biggest stage.

Watch Richmond alter the way they move the ball forward once Lynch is up and about. If they had have swung a very tall defender to play a role for them, Keefe for example, then I would have had them odds on to win the flag.

Essendon has a very good spine when everyone is available, and decent enough depth. When they run and gun and attack the game they're a hard team to stop. Essendon looked at their best last year when they played a more attacking brand of footy. Sure there was plenty of pressure around the ball, but obsessing about extra numbers on the ball or "structure " is what made us so terrible early.

It was obvious once again against Carlton in JLT. They were made to look 2nd rate for large periods in the game by a team that won't shock anyone if they finish bottom four. Then when they flicked the switch, attacked the ball and moved the ball as quickly as possible, a lead that Carlton had spent 2 quarters building up was neutralized in 5 min.

The team we have is the team we have. The coaches should make a game plan that maximises that. Not force the team to follow game plan that other teams had success with.

Also, our team relies upon Daniher to give KPF dynamism and Hooker to take away the opposition's.

With those two missing we go down a few notches in my estimation. The only players who are more important to our teams performance are Hurley and Merrett.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I think we have the problem of trying to fit a square in a round hole, because two other clubs have had success with that style.

However, between them they have won one premiership. Furthermore, Richmond and Collingwoods game plan is a work around list deficiencies. Both teams over invested in the midfield. Richmond have two very good KPPs, but both are not super tall. Collingwoods spine is shizen. That was covered by Grundy being everywhere around the ground, De Goey being a dynamic lead up forward and Cox pulling a game out of his arse on the big stage.

That's were we ****ed up with our list build imo we went with building a spine first.

Imo you start building a midfield first and once you get that right you can then start adding the spine.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

More than one team has won a flag with a pressure game plan over the last 15 years. Sydney, Collingwood, Western Bulldogs and Richmond.

 

[fishardansin]

That's were we ****** up with our list build imo we went with building a spine first.

Imo you start building a midfield first and once you get that right you can then start adding the spine.

No, you build a spine first ... and big bodied mids. They take longer to develop. I think Collingwood ****ed up. Sure they looked good in prelim last year, but going forward I rate Essendon, Richmond, GWS, Adelaide and Melbourne ahead of them.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

No, you build a spine first ... and big bodied mids. They take longer to develop. I think Collingwood ****** up. Sure they looked good in prelim last year, but going forward I rate Essendon, Richmond, GWS, Adelaide and Melbourne ahead of them.

I think the midfield is the most important part of becoming successful.

imo great premierships sides of the last decade were won on the back of having a great midfield

 

[Burzum]

No, you build a spine first ... and big bodied mids. They take longer to develop. I think Collingwood ****** up. Sure they looked good in prelim last year, but going forward I rate Essendon, Richmond, GWS, Adelaide and Melbourne ahead of them.

We should win a final before we start suggesting we're better than the side that lost last year's GF by less than a goal.

 

[Burzum]

That's were we ****** up with our list build imo we went with building a spine first.

Imo you start building a midfield first and once you get that right you can then start adding the spine.

Hurley is 30 and Hooker is 31. Besides Daniher we don't even have a good KPP for the future.

 

[blitzer]

Just on the list building aspects my 2 cents is:

You want your key position defenders first (from later picks because historically there has been tons of value) because ideally your defense will be more experienced than your forward lines. Young forward lines can and do win flags, but young defenses rarely do.

You want at least 1 elite key forward (2 is a nice luxury) and you want at least 3+ elite or thereabout mids. Its key forwards and elite mids that you will mostly spend your first rounders on so these are the big investment picks and the ones you can't afford to mess up very often.

Other than that its just getting the best players you can and drafting/trading astutely.

Going mid first will probably get you into finals quicker but there is a risk you don't make it all the way. There are always exceptions of course but I think in general these are solid ideas.

 

[fairbump_playon]

I read the above and do wonder if other boards are talking about Bombers fans melting down before the season has started.

Because that's what's happened. The same bunch of useless idiots could be 4 and 0 in a month.

So um, let's just see, shall we?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I read the above and do wonder if other boards are talking about Bombers fans melting down before the season has started.

Because that's what's happened. The same bunch of useless idiots could be 4 and 0 in a month.

So um, let's just see, shall we?

If we are 4-0 I will happily eat my words.

 

[blitzer]

JLT was a s**t show but ill be a bit more optimistic than that, we rarely do anything great in pre season. Though ill say it......anything short of a 2019 Finals win is an utter failure for mine. If the club try's to downplay that then they are kidding themselves and us.

I echo the thoughts of a very slow start to the year again, both Daniher and Hooker are injured for the best part of a month and they are crucial pieces to our spine.

If we cannot win a finals game with our current list then we might as well start re building.

Totally agree with this. Finals win has to be the minimum this year. I'm sick of hearing how "we would have done damage if blah blah". With the addition of Shiel on top of last years additions, if we can't win one now then yeah its probably back to the drawing board.

I don't care how we do it. Ideally fast out of the blocks but as long as we make it to finals and win a bloody game I'll probably be OK with it come years end.

 

[JayJ20]

I read the above and do wonder if other boards are talking about Bombers fans melting down before the season has started.

Because that's what's happened. The same bunch of useless idiots could be 4 and 0 in a month.

So um, let's just see, shall we?

Not every criticism is melting. Many posters bring up valid points. I think it's refreshing to see analysis of where we are at and what prevents us from reaching our goals.

 

[Bombermania]

No mentioning Merritt is not searching for a problem. He has come through a system where accountability in defence has been very poor. Yes he makes a few tackles and plays hard at the contest. Yes his offensive game is A grade but his team defence , along with a few others, is woeful . Until he stops ball watching when the ball leaves his area and starts moving into the area on the ground where he needs to be then he has to be questioned as a leader. More so because we are trying to implement a better team defence and specifically targeted a coach to do it.

You watch how the better teams have played in the last 15 years. They have been very good at playing their role and sacrificing parts of their game. To date we have been a side that has shown limited capability in this area. We do not need a leadership group that needs to grow. Leaders lead.

I will upset a lot of supporters but I just call it by using my experiences watching countless games at all levels and the contacts I have built through working in another clubs system. I am not always right but I do tend to look at our list without emotional attachment and benchmark it against what I have learnt over the last 30 years.

Merrett would not be in the leadership group of a number clubs. Not saying he can not find what is needed but the leaders have to deliver. I suppose the flip side is the list is very bare when it comes to natural leaders. Andy McGrath is developing and if Merrett takes on more team defence then he would be. Going to be an interesting year. So much hinges on what sort of buy in we get. Things have to change. Our leaders have to be better and a few of the 3rd to 5th year players simply have to deliver.
I am seeing a melt down coming as I still think we are a year away from knowing the answers and if it is a negative as far as the likes of Langford, Laverde , Parish and co finding the next level needed then we do have an issue. You can find a number of side that have added players that will improve their game. Not going to be an easy year but the plus side may be 12 wins will make the 8 this year.

I think there is some truth in this, you only need to see the lack of response when things start going against the side, there is no one in this side that looks like stepping up to take the game on like a Luke Hodge or Joel Selwood does and a few years ago a mate that knows several AFL players once said that opposition sides didn't fear Essendon and felt it was safe to put the head over the ball because there wasn't anyone likely to hurt them for it, that might have changed since we included Smith and Stringer. On Merrett, I think the way he goes about training and preparation is part of the reason why he is in the leadership group.

 

[Bombermania]

I read the above and do wonder if other boards are talking about Bombers fans melting down before the season has started.

Because that's what's happened. The same bunch of useless idiots could be 4 and 0 in a month.

So um, let's just see, shall we?

I don't think the board is melting, many of us see this side has being capable of making the eight and going further but we also know that this side can fall short of where we want it too be and are seeing the same patterns of play over and over.

Could Essendon go 4-0? Maybe and if it repeated the last meeting results then it could reach 7-2, and it does have winnable games early but the issue that is raising some concern is how they are playing, going by the training reports we could have expected a more lively start.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Not every criticism is melting. Many posters bring up valid points. I think it's refreshing to see analysis of where we are at and what prevents us from reaching our goals.

Not every individual needs to actually lose it. The melt comes from accumulated heat that isn’t balanced by positivity.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek because 4 pages back I threw some criticism at the captain.

When I came back to the thread and read the next few pages it was clear that as a group we are mostly fearing the worst. I tend to agree with a lot of what has been raised. But then I realized we haven’t played a minute of season 2019. So I’m gonna try to switch modes back to hopeful footy fan / true believer for a bit.

 

[hurlygurdy]

Yep, go back to 2000.
We were dangerous.
The silk could shine but the danger was always there for the opposition.
This is one reason I would always play Smack.
Begley, Francis bring it.

Ambrose does too, but my point was that as long as you rely on individuals within the team rather than the whole team when it comes to aggression, then that is not going to form a part of the team identity. That's not the end of the world of course, but i think it is a missed opportunity. I think we have a real chance of making that a part of our identity because there are probably only a couple of players who might struggle with it. Heppell, Zaka and Langford are the only ones that come to mind and even those guys have had their moments.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Not every individual needs to actually lose it. The melt comes from accumulated heat that isn’t balanced by positivity.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek because 4 pages back I threw some criticism at the captain.

When I came back to the thread and read the next few pages it was clear that as a group we are mostly fearing the worst. I tend to agree with a lot of what has been raised. But then I realized we haven’t played a minute of season 2019. So I’m gonna try to switch modes back to hopeful footy fan / true believer for a bit.

I cant see any melting here?

I just see a bunch of succussed starved supporters worried that our club captain has already asked for patience (or at least is being made out to be)