2019 2nd Ashes Test - Lords 14-18 August 2019

[demondavey]

Just checked out the squad and Patterson and Renshaw not included. Not impressed with that.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Just checked out the squad and Patterson and Renshaw not included. Not impressed with that.

Renshaw had barely scored a run since the 2018 county season when the squad was chosen. He was never going to be considered. He must have been very close to being dropped by Queensland, and possibly only held his spot because he had recently been a Test player.

 

[wolmeister]

Ricciuto's bump was legal.

Archer's bouncer was legal.

Ricciuto's bump was laid on an opponent who was caught unawares and had no protection nor time to react to protect himself.

Smith had full vision of what was coming his way. He had a bat, a helmet and gloves for protection.

Irrespective of what sport you are playing, the main contention in this thread is that Archer showed no humanity towards his fallen opponent despite the ball being legal, neither did Ricciuto who also acted within the rules, yet hit an unsuspecting opponent with no protection. Did NicNat check on Sandilands after he broke half of Sandy's ribs and sent him to hospital after driving his knee into him in a marking contest? No protection for Sandy in that instance either, nor the opportunity to protect himself.

I would say that in both the cases of Ricciuto and Naitanui, their respective supporters would have been in raptures and baying for more.

Players have checked on their opponent's welfare on a football field after cleaning them up, but it's a very rare occurrence.

"Irrespective of what sport you are playing, the main contention in this thread" - is this really the main contention in this thread? Or did you just make that up to suit your argument?

 

[Park cricketer]

Kinda feel sad that England have got an express fast bowler. They have always had the most skillful swing and seam bowlers in the world but they have had tearaway fast bowlers few and far in between, especially in recent years. As a result, if you were the home team, you rarely had to worry about their fast bowlers if they were visiting Australia or India. Now you got to be wary about Archer when England tour away from their home because he's going to add a lot of potency to their fast bowling attack which otherwise is generally medium fast in nature.

In fact, in England's tour or the Caribbean that took place a few months ago, England would have given an arm and a leg for someone like Jofra Archer in their team on those wickets that they had in the test series. Jofra could have seriously hurt someone on those wickets with unpredictable bounce. But now that they have someone in Archer who can effortlessly reach upwards of 150ks, he is going to add a new dimension to the English attack when they visit Australia for the next Ashes. I can't wait to see him bowl at the new Perth stadium or even the Gabba, it's not so much his pace but it is how he directs that pace that makes him so dangerous to face as a batsman. His natural bowling style seems to be delivering rockets aimed at the arm pit of the batsman that makes it difficult for the batter to decide whether to play it or duck under it or sway away from it in the split second. With Olly Stone in their ranks as well, England have a nice fast bowling arsenal to work with for the future.

 

[Dez!]

Just checked out the squad and Patterson and Renshaw not included. Not impressed with that.

Renshaw has done nothing with the bat for a while, currently averaging 23 for Kent.

 

[eddiesmith]

On the concussion substitute rules, the Sri Lankan batsman who got concussion against Australia came out to bat again because they couldn’t replace him. This was against doctors advice but because the doctor wasn’t apart of the Sri Lankan team, they wouldn’t listen.

Had the rule been in place then, I’d assume they’d have acted differently

 

[demondavey]

Kinda feel sad that England have got an express fast bowler. They have always had the most skillful swing and seam bowlers in the world but they have had tearaway fast bowlers few and far in between, especially in recent years. As a result, if you were the home team, you rarely had to worry about their fast bowlers if they were visiting Australia or India. Now you got to be wary about Archer when England tour away from their home because he's going to add a lot of potency to their fast bowling attack which otherwise is generally medium fast in nature.

In fact, in England's tour or the Caribbean that took place a few months ago, England would have given an arm and a leg for someone like Jofra Archer in their team on those wickets that they had in the test series. Jofra could have seriously hurt someone on those wickets with unpredictable bounce. But now that they have someone in Archer who can effortlessly reach upwards of 150ks, he is going to add a new dimension to the English attack when they visit Australia for the next Ashes. I can't wait to see him bowl at the new Perth stadium or even the Gabba, it's not so much his pace but it is how he directs that pace that makes him so dangerous to face as a batsman. His natural bowling style seems to be delivering rockets aimed at the arm pit of the batsman that makes it difficult for the batter to decide whether to play it or duck under it or sway away from it in the split second. With Olly Stone in their ranks as well, England have a nice fast bowling arsenal to work with for the future.

Olly Stone doesn’t look overly threatening to be fair

 

[theyellowsash]

Yes Starc would be wound up pretty tight after missing two tests.
Time to unleash.

unleash him all the way down to the boundary for 4 wides

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Yes Starc would be wound up pretty tight after missing two tests.
Time to unleash.

I can't see a spot for him, except perhaps at The Oval. Or in the top three of the batting order.

 

[Gethelred]

No, he wasn't. He knows them both and has experience hitting batsman while bowling around 100 mile per hour and the emotions involved which would put him in a unique position to comment.

I assume you weren't out there either, but have commented, based on what ?

No I haven't, other than to say - sarcastically - that Johnson has no idea what they were laughing at any more than we do.

 

[frankrizzo]

On the concussion substitute rules, the Sri Lankan batsman who got concussion against Australia came out to bat again because they couldn’t replace him. This was against doctors advice but because the doctor wasn’t apart of the Sri Lankan team, they wouldn’t listen.

Had the rule been in place then, I’d assume they’d have acted differently

I think with the rules they are now you simply have no choice, if you have concussion you are out you can't ignore it and play on.

 

[Gethelred]

Matthew Hayden has 30 centuries. Let's bring him in for Warner.

False equivocation. Matthew Hayden is no longer player test cricket, and has been retired for years. Warner is a current player who has 21 test centuries. For it to be apples and apples, Hayden would have to still be playing first class cricket and be selectable.

 

[Kappa]

I played for over 20 years and I only ever saw two players get hit in the head whilst unprotected. One was in the very early 80s when helmets weren't worn that much, an old school teacher of mine got hit in the temple fielding at short leg and almost died. When he eventually returned to school it was as if he'd had a stroke with a lot of one side of his body paralysed. The 2nd was in the 90s when a team mate who was an opening bat and religiously wore a helmet whether it was pace or spin bowling took his helmet off to face a spinner because it was stinking hot and he had been batting for a couple of hours already. The second ball he faced without his helmet on, he tried to sweep and top edged it straight into his mouth and shredded his lips and broke a couple of teeth. He never batted without one again.

I played first grade in Geelong for years and never saw anyone get hit in the head while they were batting that wasn't wearing a helmet, in fact I can barely recall seeing anyone get hit in the head at all, despite having numerous bowlers over the years that were capable and did bowl 90+ mph.

Er... You can still get a concussion with a helmet on.. The helmet just protects u from fractured bones. See - NFL

 

[ChampRevesby]

Er... You can still get a concussion with a helmet on.. The helmet just protects u from fractured bones. See - NFL

True. Its the brain impacting the skull that causes the damage. Very hard to stop that sort of injury.

 

[samFFC]

England too defensive to start day 5 (especially with the overs lost) and conservative with the declaration. Cost them a realistic chance of winning.

 

[Gethelred]

The angry and competitive part of me wants to play Starc just to aim at the heads of the English after Archers effort and fight fire with fire. But I'm not sure that's the best way to win

Let them be the ones distracted by how captivating it is to have a bowler doing that. Never mind that he's only picked up 5 wickets across the match; hardly Mitch Johnsonesque stats.

Plenty of bowlers can bowl the bouncer and hit blokes, but that's not what gets you the wicket; it's the full one bowled in an area of weakness before the bat has regained their equilibrium that sets the good from the average. Archer's bowled well on a track with a bit of up and down on it, when his impact was unsuspected; let's see how he can back it up, in a match in which he has to play a full 5 days without as many breaks.

BTW, wasn't it interesting how quickly England can get through the overs when there's a chance at a win or it's getting dark soon, especially when you contrast that to their over rate when Smith was on fire last test...

 

[Kappa]

Deadset Labuschagne is a quality find. To come out as sub and face a fired up Archer bowling 145km bouncers straight at your head, after the experienced older players have once again shat their pants, and to not only survive but dig in and build a quality match-saving innings with all that pressure and wickets falling at the other end, it can't be overstated how quality that knock was.

I loved the way he bounced straight up from that hit to the head and stared down Archer, shows huge strength of character and real ticker. Has great technique and is obviously seeing it really well. Was absolutely robbed by Root the Cheat and the blind West Indian who should never umpire another game again.

Must stay in for the rest of the series.

Yep, that innings proved Marnus is mentally tough. He had to come out and face a guy who just hospitalized the best player on the team and had the top order panicking, 2nd ball got a rocket in the head and got back up and played the next ball middle of the bat down the ground. Brilliant. Only 25 too, him and Head are our future.

 

[frankrizzo]

Er... You can still get a concussion with a helmet on.. The helmet just protects u from fractured bones. See - NFL

From what I have read the nfl helmets actually caused more brain injuries, the helmet on helmet crash is horrific for the brain.

 

[Kappa]

England too defensive to start day 5 (especially with the overs lost) and conservative with the declaration. Cost them a realistic chance of winning.

If they declared earlier for 40 less runs and Warner scored some runs all of a sudden there's a decent chance we could actually win and virtually seal the Ashes victory 2 tests in.

 

[Gethelred]

England too defensive to start day 5 (especially with the overs lost) and conservative with the declaration. Cost them a realistic chance of winning.

Needed to let us chase about 220-230, with about 55-60 overs to go, and risk defeat whilst backing their bowlers. But they won't be looking at it that way; they'll have seen that as 48ish overs to brutalize the s**t out of our batsman, to work us over and to really get in some player's heads. The win, after day 4, wasn't really the point; England play conservative cricket. Day 5 was all about playing mind games.

Seems a little silly to me, they're one down. We'll see if it works though.

 

[Kappa]

From what I have read the nfl helmets actually caused more brain injuries, the helmet on helmet crash is horrific for the brain.

The helmets cause more brain injuries because studies have found people take more risks and use their heads as battering rams once they have a helmet on.

 

[frankrizzo]

The helmets cause more brain injuries because studies have found people take more risks and use their heads as battering rams once they have a helmet on.

Yeah they would have been better off with no helmets and severe punishments for high hits, still you read about that league and they don't give two *s about their players.

They got what they wanted if they die at 45 they don't care.

 

[samFFC]

If they declared earlier for 40 less runs and Warner scored some runs all of a sudden there's a decent chance we could actually win and virtually seal the Ashes victory 2 tests in.

No chance we would’ve tried to chase down 220.
And even if we did, so what? England are 1-0 down and need to win the series.

Alternatively why did they bat nearly 40 overs yesterday? Could’ve made the runs quicker.

 

[samFFC]

Needed to let us chase about 220-230, with about 55-60 overs to go, and risk defeat whilst backing their bowlers. But they won't be looking at it that way; they'll have seen that as 48ish overs to brutalize the s**t out of our batsman, to work us over and to really get in some player's heads. The win, after day 4, wasn't really the point; England play conservative cricket. Day 5 was all about playing mind games.

Seems a little silly to me, they're one down. We'll see if it works though.

Well apart from leaving Warner with a worse state of confidence, and not helping Khawaja/Wade, I’m not sure how England won the mind games:

-Marnus has confidence, and we have it in him
-Head batted nicely, stuck it out, and was not out
-As did Cummins, and Bancroft to some extent
-Leach is not going to spin us out of a match, and Root/Denly aren’t either

 

[The King!]

id rather be Australia right now

1-0 up and holding the urn

plenty to be positive about no need for too much change, back them in

manus stays regardless

im tired of rotating bowlers id like to pick the best 3 pacemen

if smiths fit then move him to 3
kawahja open

bancroft out