List Mgmt. Should I stay or should I go now? End of season list management discussion (now continued for 2020)

[VandoHawk]

It's not looking good.. that's all I know.
Heavy reliance on a couple young Irish boys.

If Patton struggles next year and we don't have Poppy, Burgoyne, Smith, Birchall, Schoey, Ceglar and Roughy we will be adding to our trophy cabinet. It just will be made of wood, not silver.

While you're correct in some ways I think you're being overly pessimistic here. From those that you've listed Birchall, Roughy & Shoey had basically no impact this year. Poppy & Burgoyne losses will be felt, but both were reasonably down on their usual output with some exceptions due to the natural decline of age. From a structural perspective losing Smith & Ceglar will be the biggest blows - we don't have anyone that can replace Smithy's linebreaking pace, and Ceglar's departure would leave us short on ruck options (not convinced Pitto is AFL standard and Reeves is 5 years away).

But there are positives. Mitchell's return cannot be understated - even if he goes at 70% his ability to extract the ball is unmatched. Wingard will have (hopefully) a full preseason under his belt and be fully settled in the Hawthorn system, and Worpel will be full of belief after this season. Jags will have some time to rest his body, and be given extra freedom with Tommy's return. We matched it with most top-tier midfields with Worps/Wingard/Jags/Sheils.

We suddenly have two emerging key pillars in Lewis and O'Brien. If they continue to improve - or maintain form - we will finally have improved forward structure and hopefully start cracking the 100+ margin more often. If Patton struggles it will be unfortunate but will provide other younger players (Nash/Walker/Ross) with extra opportunity. We already had one of the strongest defensive units this year.

This is also discounting any potential players we acquire during the offseason - role players, draftees or a sneaky big fish we may not be aware of. While I'm not saying we're GUARANTEED to get better I don't think we're in a terrible position. I don't see us going backwards at a pace to give us the wooden spoon.

 

[col44]

If you read my comments I actually said If we lose all those guys, meaning if the club turns over all the old boys, then success the following year would not have been a priority. I don't think we will trade them all and and as such, I think we will be far too good to come last.

But sure, I guess interpret it how you like. Perhaps it was you being pessimistic.

I think we keep some of those guys and push for finals again. If Mitchell hadnt gone down this year who knows how it could have panned out.

 

[MrPremiership]

Curious why its only 1 year deals.
Understandable for the rookies Greaves and Golds, and maybe Jones.

Thought Ross would get more than 1 considering he had a good year. Reeves as such a project player probably no harm in giving 1 but unusual

 

[Hawk_francais]

Curious why its only 1 year deals.
Understandable for the rookies Greaves and Golds, and maybe Jones.

Thought Ross would get more than 1 considering he had a good year. Reeves as such a project player probably no harm in giving 1 but unusual

I don't think you can give more than a one year deal to any player not cracking the senior side. Started really well but dropped off when we had forward openings.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Smith rumoured to be on the trade table:

It may be true, but I think they've got it all wrong with reports that we're putting him out there looking for a top 25 pick in return. We're only going to the trade table if he wants to go, and I don't think we'll get anywhere near top 25.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Curious why its only 1 year deals.
Understandable for the rookies Greaves and Golds, and maybe Jones.

Thought Ross would get more than 1 considering he had a good year. Reeves as such a project player probably no harm in giving 1 but unusual

I don't think you can give more than a one year deal to any player not cracking the senior side. Started really well but dropped off when we had forward openings.

Any form outside the AFL is taken with a pinch of salt. Form does not translate as well as it used too. The VFL comp has gradually degraded over the years. Its about performing at AFL level. Can they take the next step.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Any form outside the AFL is taken with a pinch of salt. Form does not translate as well as it used too. The VFL comp has gradually degraded over the years. Its about performing at AFL level. Can they take the next step.

Seems to be an art to that - to which I tip my hat to the coaching and development staff. I don’t recall Hardwick dominating at VFL level and having people scream for his inclusion like other players - however when he hit the AFL he took to it like a duck to water and never looked back. Other players dominate the VFL and are plodders at AFL level.

 

[kirbatron]

Smith rumoured to be on the trade table:

It may be true, but I think they've got it all wrong with reports that we're putting him out there looking for a top 25 pick in return. We're only going to the trade table if he wants to go, and I don't think we'll get anywhere near top 25.

GC have offered 17.

 

[Brant]

Smith rumoured to be on the trade table:

It may be true, but I think they've got it all wrong with reports that we're putting him out there looking for a top 25 pick in return. We're only going to the trade table if he wants to go, and I don't think we'll get anywhere near top 25.

He's contracted so we're sure AF not taking anything worse than Pick 25!

 

[Brant]

GC have offered 17.

They'll get that Priority Pick at 2, so will have 1, 2 & 18.

If they want Smitty with 18 then they can give us Pick 52 for Burgoyne instead of taking him as a FA.

 

[Hawk_francais]

GC have offered 17.

article from 2016: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2016/10/04/isaac-smith-no-chance-of-gold-coast-move-wallace/

“It was something along the lines of no way known would I ever finish up, up there. So I doubt very much that would be happening."

 

[HODGEYROAD]

While you're correct in some ways I think you're being overly pessimistic here. From those that you've listed Birchall, Roughy & Shoey had basically no impact this year. Poppy & Burgoyne losses will be felt, but both were reasonably down on their usual output with some exceptions due to the natural decline of age. From a structural perspective losing Smith & Ceglar will be the biggest blows - we don't have anyone that can replace Smithy's linebreaking pace, and Ceglar's departure would leave us short on ruck options (not convinced Pitto is AFL standard and Reeves is 5 years away).

But there are positives. Mitchell's return cannot be understated - even if he goes at 70% his ability to extract the ball is unmatched. Wingard will have (hopefully) a full preseason under his belt and be fully settled in the Hawthorn system, and Worpel will be full of belief after this season. Jags will have some time to rest his body, and be given extra freedom with Tommy's return. We matched it with most top-tier midfields with Worps/Wingard/Jags/Sheils.

We suddenly have two emerging key pillars in Lewis and O'Brien. If they continue to improve - or maintain form - we will finally have improved forward structure and hopefully start cracking the 100+ margin more often. If Patton struggles it will be unfortunate but will provide other younger players (Nash/Walker/Ross) with extra opportunity. We already had one of the strongest defensive units this year.

This is also discounting any potential players we acquire during the offseason - role players, draftees or a sneaky big fish we may not be aware of. While I'm not saying we're GUARANTEED to get better I don't think we're in a terrible position. I don't see us going backwards at a pace to give us the wooden spoon.

I just see us being mid tier for the foreseeable future between 5-10, our list isn't bad but it certainly isn't fantastic either.

 

[Brant]

I just see us being mid tier for the foreseeable future between 5-10, our list isn't bad but it certainly isn't fantastic either.

Had Dollar$ Cog$ selected us instead of AFL Giants & we traded well this off-season, we'd easily have been in with a shot for the 2020 flag.

Now, we're going to be an A Grade midfielder short.

If Petracca came for a 2nd & averaged 24 possies + a goal from HFF, we could be back in it.

 

[WWSD]

GC have offered 17.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Had Dollar$ Cog$ selected us instead of AFL Giants & we traded well this off-season, we'd easily have been in with a shot for the 2020 flag.

Now, we're going to be an A Grade midfielder short.

If Petracca came for a 2nd & averaged 24 possies + a goal from HFF, we could be back in it.

How can you criticise him for not moving to a club that's travelling worse than his own? How about instead criticising our own club? If we'd put in a better efforts in extremely winnable games against North, Essendon, Bulldogs, Melbourne and Sydney then we'd have finished in the mix for top 4, and we'd be a much more attractive proposition for all our trade/FA targets.

 

[VandoHawk]

GC have offered 17.

For that price, especially at his age, I think you take it and run. But will Smithy want to go there.

 

[Dewnior]

Smith rumoured to be on the trade table:

It may be true, but I think they've got it all wrong with reports that we're putting him out there looking for a top 25 pick in return. We're only going to the trade table if he wants to go, and I don't think we'll get anywhere near top 25.

Why? Smith has played 200 games in 9 seasons of football. He's been durable and hasn't lost his pace. He's effectively a 27 yo in terms of football age and there's no reason he can't play for another 5 seasons. If we can't get a 1st round pick or get our first upgraded we should keep him.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Why? Smith has played 200 games in 9 seasons of football. He's effectively a 27 to in terms of football age and there's no reason he can't play for another 5 seasons. He's been durable and hasn't lost his pace. If we can't get a 1st round pick or get our first upgraded we should keep him.

Mate, I'm with ya. My post was suggesting that we won't be trading him unless he gets an offer and wants to leave.

 

[Brant]

How can you criticise him for not moving to a club that's travelling worse than his own? How about instead criticising our own club? If we'd put in a better efforts in extremely winnable games against North, Essendon, Bulldogs, Melbourne and Sydney then we'd have finished in the mix for top 4, and we'd be a much more attractive proposition for all our trade/FA targets.

Silly thinking that our position in the ladder was in any way a contributing factor & this isn't the thread for that discussion.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Silly thinking that our position in the ladder was in any way a contributing factor & this isn't the thread for that discussion.

We can't be sure how much of a factor, but it's certainly silly to think that ladder position isn't a factor.

 

[Brant]

We can't be sure how much of a factor, but it's certainly silly to think that ladder position isn't a factor.

Apparently not for him.

 

[Hawk_francais]

Apparently not for him.

Sorry, but he stayed at the club which was ranked highest. How is it then ‘apparent’ that our lower ladder position wasn’t a factor? We’ll never know if it would’ve made enough of a difference.

You’re alright generally but you have sour grapes on this. Let’s not mention cogs again in this thread

 

[Brant]

Sorry, but he stayed at the club which was ranked highest. How is it then ‘apparent’ that our lower ladder position wasn’t a factor? We’ll never know if it would’ve made enough of a difference.

You’re alright generally but you have sour grapes on this. Let’s not mention cogs again in this thread

Hahaha
We could’ve not mentioned it 4x posts ago when I suggested, but if you need to have the last word then that’s fine...

If you’ve finished with your mate Dollar$ & his motivation, maybe reply to the point of my original post: that being that we’re now an A Grade mid short of challenging in 2020.


Any ideas?

IMO, it jeopardises our capability of achieving our 2x Flags by 2022. Not that we’re solely reliant on him of course, but the assets required in attaining that A Grade mid may now restrict our capacity to replace Smitty (or vice versa) & start phasing out Hendo, who probs only has 1x year of top-line footy left in him.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Had Dollar$ Cog$ selected us instead of AFL Giants & we traded well this off-season, we'd easily have been in with a shot for the 2020 flag.

Now, we're going to be an A Grade midfielder short.

If Petracca came for a 2nd & averaged 24 possies + a goal from HFF, we could be back in it.

I think we're an A grade mid short, an A grade key position player short and some quality run short.

 

[Brant]

I think we're an A grade mid short, an A grade key position player short and some quality run short.

I’m not so worried about the KPP. I’m (& have been) very bullish on Patton & what he will do for us. I’m now more worried about Mitch Lewis, on account of his shoulder. I’d feel a little better if we brought in a genuine CHB but I’ve been pretty impressed by TO’B & it may come to pass that he has to hold that position down in 2020. It gives us huge on-field flexibility if TO’B can play CHB.

A Grade mid? If the chatter re: Petracca is genuine (hard to believe anything, at the moment) then he probs falls into B Grade forward/mid category, but Mitchell, Wingard, Worpel should all be A Grade & JO’M will definitely benefit from the return of Mitchell.

Quality run? Sure gonna miss Impey & we’ll really feel it if we also lose Smitty, but I’m hoping we get Amon & Impey returns late in 2020. I agree, we’re a classy outside runner short, even with Amon. I wouldn’t mind seeing CJ get a run on the wing, but he’s not the answer to replacing Smitty.