Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[geelong_crazy26]

I am still waiting to hear another one of the hypocritical liners in here from the trolls about how buckley can coach because he made a grand final, but then its irrelevant and doesnt count that scott coached geelong to a premiership.

Apparently your a more proven finals coach losing a grand final than winning one.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeah, We've got around it great. And it's now 2020.

Yes and how many teams who bottom out, change coach, and go to the draft, would have been back where we are if they made that decision after 2013? It's only taken Carlton 2 decades to not be in contention again. It took Richmond how long? Melbourne? Gold Coast started from scratch but they got a pretty good hand early and did nothing with it. St Kilda begin to start again 2 years before we did. They're still behind us. Brisbane spent 14 years doing it and again they're probably no closer to another flag than what we are right now. Sydney have been thereabouts with us in terms of age profile, consistency - granted they have won a flag since we did (by one year) and have been back to a grand final but from the 'rules' I'm reading in here that's a failure. Now they look miles away. the Pies have been back to a grand final since 2011 but that aside, they have been in no man's land for part of that time, also rans in the top four for some of that time. They are in no better position than what we are.

When someone can tell me "changing coaches and picking one up from the combination of untried assistants, and out-of-work head coaches who are out of work for a reason, and bottoming out has a high success rate" and back it up with some proof, I'll maybe reconsider my view on things. But at the moment that won't happen because there is no proof. I like being competitive better, and still being in position to challenge without selling our soul and accepting years of not competing.

As I've said many, many times. The one thing NRL has all over AFL is that at the start of any given year, 75 per cent of teams have their sights set on finals and challenging for a title. the day i follow a team who deliberately chooses potential future success over attainable current success, is the day I lose faith in the concept of team sport.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Yes and how many teams who bottom out, change coach, and go to the draft, would have been back where we are if they made that decision after 2013? It's only taken Carlton 2 decades to not be in contention again. It took Richmond how long? Melbourne? Gold Coast started from scratch but they got a pretty good hand early and did nothing with it. St Kilda begin to start again 2 years before we did. They're still behind us. Brisbane spent 14 years doing it and again they're probably no closer to another flag than what we are right now. Sydney have been thereabouts with us in terms of age profile, consistency - granted they have won a flag since we did (by one year) and have been back to a grand final but from the 'rules' I'm reading in here that's a failure. Now they look miles away. the Pies have been back to a grand final since 2011 but that aside, they have been in no man's land for part of that time, also rans in the top four for some of that time. They are in no better position than what we are.

When someone can tell me "changing coaches and picking one up from the combination of untried assistants, and out-of-work head coaches who are out of work for a reason, and bottoming out has a high success rate" and back it up with some proof, I'll maybe reconsider my view on things. But at the moment that won't happen because there is no proof. I like being competitive better, and still being in position to challenge without selling our soul and accepting years of not competing.

As I've said many, many times. The one thing NRL has all over AFL is that at the start of any given year, 75 per cent of teams have their sights set on finals and challenging for a title. the day i follow a team who deliberately chooses potential future success over attainable current success, is the day I lose faith in the concept of team sport.

I don't want anyone to get sacked. And I really don't care about Brissy or any other team. I hope they lose.
11th season, best team, best coach would like to see us do something.
Pies and the rest can spend 100 years down the bottom. Who cares.

 

[Max Milburn]

The hate is strong.
It is beyond reason.
If we snatch a cup this year, it will be "only because of COVID restrictions".

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't want anyone to get sacked. And I really don't care about Brissy or any other team. I hope they lose.
11th season, best team, best coach would like to see us do something.
Pies and the rest can spend 100 years down the bottom. Who cares.

I couldn’t give a f*** what happens to them either - I hate that Richmond are no longer a loveable joke who pose no threat. I’d love them to sit in mediocrity again.

but other teams, whether you care about them or not, provide templates to follow or avoid.

there are very, very few templates that are worth following that involve going down the clean out path.
You could argue that the Dogs are one side that have proven that it can work but even then with due respect to them, they kind of flukes a flag and haven’t been close to backing it up.

the Reason to pay attention to what other teams have tried is so that you can avoid making the same mistakes. So I do believe it is relevant to look at other clubs at least to get an idea of what not to do.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

The hate is strong.
It is beyond reason.
If we snatch a cup this year, it will be "only because of COVID restrictions".

Would be a pretty poor excuse if it happened given we're a Victorian team that will play all games including finals away from home. Our biggest rivals this year likely would have been Colligwood and Richmond who are dealing with the same thing. Collingwood have had injury problems hurting them, but we have also had a bit of that ourselves.

It's a tough season for everyone. Only ones who get off a bit easier are the SA and QLD clubs.

 

[David the Cat]

Bobby, now it makes sense. I was wondering who this pessimistic supporter was.

Well now that its out, I hope you understand what we and others are dealing with....and give appropriate credence to his posts.

Go searching for a positive comment about coach, players, administration, or the GFC as a whole...you might find a hen's tooth while your at it.

......but time heals all wounds ....

 

[David the Cat]

The hate is strong.
It is beyond reason.
If we snatch a cup this year, it will be "only because of COVID restrictions".

Yea....and we only make finals because of our home ground advantage.....

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Yea....and we only make finals because of our home ground advantage.....

Some in here liked to say we only made top 4 because of the home ground advantage, which was justification for poor QF/PF finals performances. Forget about that QF that took place at said home ground.

 

[PhatBoy]

Some in here liked to say we only made top 4 because of the home ground advantage, which was justification for poor QF/PF finals performances. Forget about that QF that took place at said home ground.

seriously how long is that going to be held onto? It was one game?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

seriously how long is that going to be held onto? It was one game?

It's being brought up in the context of people claiming that Geelong does worse in finals relative to H&A because it doesn't get the same 'true' home ground advantage it enjoys during the H&A. One could counter with their recent run of form away or that the only time in recent history they actually got a home final at KP they blew it as badly as they did last year against Collingwood at the 'G or against Fremantle at the 'G or against Richmond at the 'G or against Sydney at the 'G.

 

[PhatBoy]

It's being brought up in the context of people claiming that Geelong does worse in finals relative to H&A because it doesn't get the same 'true' home ground advantage it enjoys during the H&A. One could counter with their recent run of form away or that the only time in recent history they actually got a home final at KP they blew it as badly as they did last year against Collingwood at the 'G or against Fremantle at the 'G or against Richmond at the 'G or against Sydney at the 'G.

yes but it is one game. At least with the others its a decent sample size.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

yes but it is one game. At least with the others its a decent sample size.

Follows a similar pattern of Geelong being able to beat teams during the H&A but then not in finals.

 

[David the Cat]

Some in here liked to say we only made top 4 because of the home ground advantage, which was justification for poor QF/PF finals performances. Forget about that QF that took place at said home ground.

Ahh yes...2013....a Premiership there for the taking. Apart from 08, this was the one we threw away...

 

[David the Cat]

It's being brought up in the context of people claiming that Geelong does worse in finals relative to H&A because it doesn't get the same 'true' home ground advantage it enjoys during the H&A. One could counter with their recent run of form away or that the only time in recent history they actually got a home final at KP they blew it as badly as they did last year against Collingwood at the 'G or against Fremantle at the 'G or against Richmond at the 'G or against Sydney at the 'G.

The side we are watching now should be judged on their own merits, not on the efforts (or otherwise), of those who came before them.



I count 2008, 2013 and last years * up as Premierships we could/should have grasped. I'd suggest the rest were opportunities taken from us by better sides.

 

[PhatBoy]

Can someone tell me what is this magical coaching solution that is out there just waiting for us to approach it with a checkbook and then masturbate with the winning TAB tickets from the next 5 grand finals?

 

[Biggy_Boy]

You can quote all those.....the same players are not on the park now....

Following your train of thinking, its the jumper, not the players that win/lose finals. The side we are watching now should be judged on their own merits, not on the efforts or otherwise, of those who came before them.

I can think of one common element between those sides apart from the jumper.

But I'm pretty sure in many of those finals I can recall guys like Blicavs, Guthrie, Menegola, Bews, Stanley even Dangerfield making costly blunders or just going missing. Some of these guys are playig some of their best footy now, which is good, but we're also relying on them more than ever, which is bad if they don't perform in finals again.

 

[PhatBoy]

I can think of one common element between those sides apart from the jumper.

But I'm pretty sure in many of those finals I can recall guys like Blicavs, Guthrie, Menegola, Bews, Stanley even Dangerfield making costly blunders or just going missing. Some of these guys are playig some of their best footy now, which is good, but we're also relying on them more than ever, which is bad if they don't perform in finals again.

This isn't a smart arse question just a genuine one. If you can acknowledge that those guys do a decent enough job through the year most of the time (and it would be hard to argue that they don't) but can then acknowledge that they make uncharacteristic and costly errors in finals, what is it that a different head coach is going to do that will change that? He can't mark, kick, or handpass the ball for them. And as professional, established footballers, it would seemingly be a waste of resources getting a coach who's job it is to devise gameplans, take down other teams' game plans, and generally plot the way we want to play, to teach these blokes how to execute basic skills that they have been using for a decade.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yes and how many teams who bottom out, change coach, and go to the draft, would have been back where we are if they made that decision after 2013? It's only taken Carlton 2 decades to not be in contention again. It took Richmond how long? Melbourne? Gold Coast started from scratch but they got a pretty good hand early and did nothing with it. St Kilda begin to start again 2 years before we did. They're still behind us. Brisbane spent 14 years doing it and again they're probably no closer to another flag than what we are right now. Sydney have been thereabouts with us in terms of age profile, consistency - granted they have won a flag since we did (by one year) and have been back to a grand final but from the 'rules' I'm reading in here that's a failure. Now they look miles away. the Pies have been back to a grand final since 2011 but that aside, they have been in no man's land for part of that time, also rans in the top four for some of that time. They are in no better position than what we are.

When someone can tell me "changing coaches and picking one up from the combination of untried assistants, and out-of-work head coaches who are out of work for a reason, and bottoming out has a high success rate" and back it up with some proof, I'll maybe reconsider my view on things. But at the moment that won't happen because there is no proof. I like being competitive better, and still being in position to challenge without selling our soul and accepting years of not competing.

As I've said many, many times. The one thing NRL has all over AFL is that at the start of any given year, 75 per cent of teams have their sights set on finals and challenging for a title. the day i follow a team who deliberately chooses potential future success over attainable current success, is the day I lose faith in the concept of team sport.

Very well said! The landscape is drastically changing into a competition where free agency and trading is just as important as drafting. The fact gold coast and GWS have not won a flag yet received the single greatest drafr pick handouts in the history of AFL... And yet they are both further from a flag than geelong are.

There is so much more to developing an elite team than just a singularity thing like good draft picks or a good coach. Alot has to go right all at the same time to win a flag. Its beyond the scope of just one influence but an entire large system.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Would be a pretty poor excuse if it happened given we're a Victorian team that will play all games including finals away from home. Our biggest rivals this year likely would have been Colligwood and Richmond who are dealing with the same thing. Collingwood have had injury problems hurting them, but we have also had a bit of that ourselves.

It's a tough season for everyone. Only ones who get off a bit easier are the SA and QLD clubs.

You run around telling us a coach who has coached a premiership cant coach in finals. Im sure you will come up with many other fine excuses

 

[geelong_crazy26]

seriously how long is that going to be held onto? It was one game?

They were just a better team, they backed it up with an incredible season the year after that showed they were a top side. Would have knocked off hawthorn if fye didnt break his leg.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

You run around telling us a coach who has coached a premiership cant coach in finals. Im sure you will come up with many other fine excuses

38.9% record in finals.

4 wins, 11 finals losses since 2011.

5 top 4 finishes since 2011.
4 top 2 finishes since 2011.
Just one interstate final in that time.

Not. One. GF.

He can't coach in finals.

 

[Down at K Park]

Yet Only one flag?! Lol. We havent even won ten in our clubs history and your saying ” yet only one” like they casually fall from the sky. If he won a second flag he would be our greatest coach of all time, not be getting a pass mark.

Yes, because he has got us into position to win more than 1, but him and his men have continually blown it.

You’ve polished scotts rod so hard there is hardly any skin left. He could spit in your face and you’d still defend him.

 

[PhatBoy]

38.9% record in finals.

4 wins, 11 finals losses since 2011.

5 top 4 finishes since 2011.
4 top 2 finishes since 2011.
Just one interstate final in that time.

Not. One. GF.

He can't coach in finals.

Since proving he can coach in finals he can't coach in finals.

Well I'm convinced.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yes, because he has got us into position to win more than 1, but him and his men have continually blown it.

You’ve polished scotts rod so hard there is hardly any skin left. He could spit in your face and you’d still defend him.

It's this sort of s**t that makes people on our side of the argument not take anything you say seriously.

Why is it the people defending him can say 'yes he has had his failures and there has been moments and games where he has fallen short but we still think he's the right man for the job' and that is somehow rather immaturely (and as an immature man myself I can recognise it) turned into 'polishing his rod' but the people on the other side of the debate can't even bring themselves to make a concession that he may actually be ok at his job and every year without a flag is concrete proof that he's the rebirth of Matthew Primus in the coaches box?