Review Geelong defeats GCS by 34 points. Rd 10, 2021

[DanA]

	Kyle Hartigan	Jake Kolodjashnij	Adam Tomlinson	Tom Clurey	Sam Collins		Jack Henry	Tom Stewart	Lachie Henderson
	HAW​	GEEL	MELB	PORT	GCFC​		GEEL	GEEL	GEEL
Frees Against	1.6	1.3	0.9	0.7	1.1		0.1	0.6	0.8
Marks	3.4	6.1	5.4	6	6.6		5.2	7.9	7.5
Intercept Marks	1.2	1.3	1.4	2.3	2.6		1.8	2.4	2.1
Tackles	0.6	2.1	1.3	0.8	1.9		2	1.3	1.4
Pressure Acts	6	6.3	5	5.1	8.3		8.4	7.2	6.5
Spoils	5.5	5.3	4.3	5.2	7.4		3.9	2.9	4
Contested Defence 1 on 1's	4.2	3.6	3	4.1	4.7		1.8	2	3.1
Contested Defense Loss Percentage	33.3	28	4.8	24.3	23.4		18.8	26	32.3
		3
Kicking Efficiency	84.4	76.5	77.4	77.6	78.9		89.2	81.5	87.5
Clangers	2.6	2.4	2.4	1.8	2.4		0.8	2.3	1.9
Meters Gained	114.1	141.6	174.7	187.1	178.1		166.6	488.5	325.2

To nip this stat stuff in the bud, I've picked out the four players I'd consider most comparable to Kolo. They are:

• Sam Collins
• Adam Tomlinson
• Tom Clurey, and
• Kyle Hartigan.

And Kolo sits in the middle to lower end of this group statistically almost across the board, which fits with where I would rank him. A solid but not exceptional player. IMO the only good player in this group is Sam Collins, and he consistently wins in terms of stats in this group of fairly limited players. Tomlinson has an amazing contested defence lost percentage, but IMO a big part of that is playing for Melbourne's great team defence. Something Kolo benefits from but to a lesser degree. I'd consider Hartigan a poor player, and easily the worst of the group, not good enough to start in our team. Kolo IMO comfortably beats him out both statistically and in terms of what I've observed anecdotally.

In terms of Geelong players, Kolo sits well behind the other three statistically. Of particular note is that Kolo has a significantly higher number of clangers and frees against, particularly compared to Henry. So supporters that think Kolo gives away more goals than the others, particularly compared to how much of the ball he sees/wins....they aren't wrong. Kolo is comfortably the worst of the four as a ball users by foot. Henry is extremely safe, but like Kolo limited (no surprise there) while Stewart/Henderson are both utterly dominant in terms aggression using the ball, as indicated by metres gained, but also are far less likely to commit a clanger. They will however turn the ball over a lot more but IMO that is indicative of the volume of ball they see and how aggressive they use it.

Where Kolo stands out is as a tackler, and with spoils, which IMO reflects good athleticism. But consider how much more aggressive Henderson and Stewart are in the air, in terms of marks/intercept marks, I don't think you can call him our best stopper or defender. You can certainly argue he belongs in the team (I don't disagree with that) but trying to argue Kolo is statistically some kind of great defender.....maybe anecdotally but nah, that's not reflected in the stats.

 

[frggr]

Putting together a vintage season. I for one thought he might be on his last legs, but this is his best start to a season in a while.

Seems that way. Probably helps having some of the youngsters pick up the slack (finally!)

 

[Down at K Park]

	Kyle Hartigan	Jake Kolodjashnij	Adam Tomlinson	Tom Clurey	Sam Collins		Jack Henry	Tom Stewart	Lachie Henderson
	HAW​	GEEL	MELB	PORT	GCFC​		GEEL	GEEL	GEEL
Frees Against	1.6	1.3	0.9	0.7	1.1		0.1	0.6	0.8
Marks	3.4	6.1	5.4	6	6.6		5.2	7.9	7.5
Intercept Marks	1.2	1.3	1.4	2.3	2.6		1.8	2.4	2.1
Tackles	0.6	2.1	1.3	0.8	1.9		2	1.3	1.4
Pressure Acts	6	6.3	5	5.1	8.3		8.4	7.2	6.5
Spoils	5.5	5.3	4.3	5.2	7.4		3.9	2.9	4
Contested Defence 1 on 1's	4.2	3.6	3	4.1	4.7		1.8	2	3.1
Contested Defense Loss Percentage	33.3	28	4.8	24.3	23.4		18.8	26	32.3
		3
Kicking Efficiency	84.4	76.5	77.4	77.6	78.9		89.2	81.5	87.5
Clangers	2.6	2.4	2.4	1.8	2.4		0.8	2.3	1.9
Meters Gained	114.1	141.6	174.7	187.1	178.1		166.6	488.5	325.2

To nip this stat stuff in the bud, I've picked out the four players I'd consider most comparable to Kolo. They are:

• Sam Collins
• Adam Tomlinson
• Tom Clurey, and
• Kyle Hartigan.

And Kolo sits in the middle to lower end of this group statistically almost across the board, which fits with where I would rank him. A solid but not exceptional player. IMO the only good player in this group is Sam Collins, and he consistently wins in terms of stats in this group of fairly limited players. Tomlinson has an amazing contested defence lost percentage, but IMO a big part of that is playing for Melbourne's great team defence. Something Kolo benefits from but to a lesser degree. I'd consider Hartigan a poor player, and easily the worst of the group, not good enough to start in our team. Kolo IMO comfortably beats him out both statistically and in terms of what I've observed anecdotally.

In terms of Geelong players, Kolo sits well behind the other three statistically. Of particular note is that Kolo has a significantly higher number of clangers and frees against, particularly compared to Henry. So supporters that think Kolo gives away more goals than the others, particularly compared to how much of the ball he sees/wins....they aren't wrong. Kolo is comfortably the worst of the four as a ball users by foot. Henry is extremely safe, but like Kolo limited (no surprise there) while Stewart/Henderson are both utterly dominant in terms aggression using the ball, as indicated by metres gained, but also are far less likely to commit a clanger. They will however turn the ball over a lot more but IMO that is indicative of the volume of ball they see and how aggressive they use it.

Where Kolo stands out is as a tackler, and with spoils, which IMO reflects good athleticism. But consider how much more aggressive Henderson and Stewart are in the air, in terms of marks/intercept marks, I don't think you can call him our best stopper or defender. You can certainly argue he belongs in the team (I don't disagree with that) but trying to argue Kolo is statistically some kind of great defender.....maybe anecdotally but nah, that's not reflected in the stats.

But the stats were supposed to prove how great a defender he is

He’s solid, but prone to errors. We’ve all seen it. But it is what it is. Scott clearly loves him.

 

[cats_09]

If we're reduced now to discussing Josh Walkers scone may I suggest it's time to open the Geelong v Collingwood thread.

noted & done

 

[catempire]

What other explanation can there be?

Look I’m not ruling out Kolo’s male pattern baldness being a factor here somehow

 

[year of the cat]

Look I’m not ruling out Kolo’s male pattern baldness being a factor here somehow

Interesting. But I’ll count it as yet another reason to drop him. We are old enough without having guys that look older than they are.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

But the stats were supposed to prove how great a defender he is

He’s solid, but prone to errors. We’ve all seen it. But it is what it is. Scott clearly loves him.

Did anyone even slightly imply that?
I'm pretty sure the stats brought up were to support the opinion that he's an ok player... you know... which he is.

 

[catempire]

	Kyle Hartigan	Jake Kolodjashnij	Adam Tomlinson	Tom Clurey	Sam Collins		Jack Henry	Tom Stewart	Lachie Henderson
	HAW​	GEEL	MELB	PORT	GCFC​		GEEL	GEEL	GEEL
Frees Against	1.6	1.3	0.9	0.7	1.1		0.1	0.6	0.8
Marks	3.4	6.1	5.4	6	6.6		5.2	7.9	7.5
Intercept Marks	1.2	1.3	1.4	2.3	2.6		1.8	2.4	2.1
Tackles	0.6	2.1	1.3	0.8	1.9		2	1.3	1.4
Pressure Acts	6	6.3	5	5.1	8.3		8.4	7.2	6.5
Spoils	5.5	5.3	4.3	5.2	7.4		3.9	2.9	4
Contested Defence 1 on 1's	4.2	3.6	3	4.1	4.7		1.8	2	3.1
Contested Defense Loss Percentage	33.3	28	4.8	24.3	23.4		18.8	26	32.3
		3
Kicking Efficiency	84.4	76.5	77.4	77.6	78.9		89.2	81.5	87.5
Clangers	2.6	2.4	2.4	1.8	2.4		0.8	2.3	1.9
Meters Gained	114.1	141.6	174.7	187.1	178.1		166.6	488.5	325.2

To nip this stat stuff in the bud, I've picked out the four players I'd consider most comparable to Kolo. They are:

• Sam Collins
• Adam Tomlinson
• Tom Clurey, and
• Kyle Hartigan.

And Kolo sits in the middle to lower end of this group statistically almost across the board, which fits with where I would rank him. A solid but not exceptional player. IMO the only good player in this group is Sam Collins, and he consistently wins in terms of stats in this group of fairly limited players. Tomlinson has an amazing contested defence lost percentage, but IMO a big part of that is playing for Melbourne's great team defence. Something Kolo benefits from but to a lesser degree. I'd consider Hartigan a poor player, and easily the worst of the group, not good enough to start in our team. Kolo IMO comfortably beats him out both statistically and in terms of what I've observed anecdotally.

In terms of Geelong players, Kolo sits well behind the other three statistically. Of particular note is that Kolo has a significantly higher number of clangers and frees against, particularly compared to Henry. So supporters that think Kolo gives away more goals than the others, particularly compared to how much of the ball he sees/wins....they aren't wrong. Kolo is comfortably the worst of the four as a ball users by foot. Henry is extremely safe, but like Kolo limited (no surprise there) while Stewart/Henderson are both utterly dominant in terms aggression using the ball, as indicated by metres gained, but also are far less likely to commit a clanger. They will however turn the ball over a lot more but IMO that is indicative of the volume of ball they see and how aggressive they use it.

Where Kolo stands out is as a tackler, and with spoils, which IMO reflects good athleticism. But consider how much more aggressive Henderson and Stewart are in the air, in terms of marks/intercept marks, I don't think you can call him our best stopper or defender. You can certainly argue he belongs in the team (I don't disagree with that) but trying to argue Kolo is statistically some kind of great defender.....maybe anecdotally but nah, that's not reflected in the stats.

Setting aside how or why you chose these as the closest comparators, here is how they compare in the key area of beating one’s opponent:

1. Kolo loses 21% (272 contests)
2. Clurey loses 23.3% (410 contests)
3. Tomlinson loses 25.7% (191 contests)
4. Collins loses 26.6% (218 contests)
5. Hartigan loses 28.8% (423 contests)

*career stats

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The only game this season his disposals were that low (12) he had 5 tackles and a goal.

what games has he had 10-12 disposals with no defensive effort?

his had One game over 20 touches this season from his appearances. How is that a lock into a premiership contending best 22 midfield?? It’s far from it. His not youth anymore either so the development argument doesn’t cut it.

he needs consistency with or will be back into reserves without any dramas

 

[DanA]

Setting aside how or why you chose these as the closest comparators, here is how they compare in the key area of beating one’s opponent:

1. Kolo loses 21% (272 contests)
2. Clurey loses 23.3% (410 contests)
3. Tomlinson loses 25.7% (191 contests)
4. Collins loses 26.6% (218 contests)
5. Hartigan loses 28.8% (423 contests)

*career stats

And is that reflective of Kolo being significantly better or just part of a significantly better team defense over time? Across Kolo's entire career, we've pretty much been a top 4 team. The others have had some pretty poor team results, Obviously none more so than Gold Coast.

 

[Drunkcat]

Stats are bullshit as our backline kick to each other so much to get stats up

 

[geelong_crazy26]

	Kyle Hartigan	Jake Kolodjashnij	Adam Tomlinson	Tom Clurey	Sam Collins		Jack Henry	Tom Stewart	Lachie Henderson
	HAW​	GEEL	MELB	PORT	GCFC​		GEEL	GEEL	GEEL
Frees Against	1.6	1.3	0.9	0.7	1.1		0.1	0.6	0.8
Marks	3.4	6.1	5.4	6	6.6		5.2	7.9	7.5
Intercept Marks	1.2	1.3	1.4	2.3	2.6		1.8	2.4	2.1
Tackles	0.6	2.1	1.3	0.8	1.9		2	1.3	1.4
Pressure Acts	6	6.3	5	5.1	8.3		8.4	7.2	6.5
Spoils	5.5	5.3	4.3	5.2	7.4		3.9	2.9	4
Contested Defence 1 on 1's	4.2	3.6	3	4.1	4.7		1.8	2	3.1
Contested Defense Loss Percentage	33.3	28	4.8	24.3	23.4		18.8	26	32.3
		3
Kicking Efficiency	84.4	76.5	77.4	77.6	78.9		89.2	81.5	87.5
Clangers	2.6	2.4	2.4	1.8	2.4		0.8	2.3	1.9
Meters Gained	114.1	141.6	174.7	187.1	178.1		166.6	488.5	325.2

To nip this stat stuff in the bud, I've picked out the four players I'd consider most comparable to Kolo. They are:

• Sam Collins
• Adam Tomlinson
• Tom Clurey, and
• Kyle Hartigan.

And Kolo sits in the middle to lower end of this group statistically almost across the board, which fits with where I would rank him. A solid but not exceptional player. IMO the only good player in this group is Sam Collins, and he consistently wins in terms of stats in this group of fairly limited players. Tomlinson has an amazing contested defence lost percentage, but IMO a big part of that is playing for Melbourne's great team defence. Something Kolo benefits from but to a lesser degree. I'd consider Hartigan a poor player, and easily the worst of the group, not good enough to start in our team. Kolo IMO comfortably beats him out both statistically and in terms of what I've observed anecdotally.

In terms of Geelong players, Kolo sits well behind the other three statistically. Of particular note is that Kolo has a significantly higher number of clangers and frees against, particularly compared to Henry. So supporters that think Kolo gives away more goals than the others, particularly compared to how much of the ball he sees/wins....they aren't wrong. Kolo is comfortably the worst of the four as a ball users by foot. Henry is extremely safe, but like Kolo limited (no surprise there) while Stewart/Henderson are both utterly dominant in terms aggression using the ball, as indicated by metres gained, but also are far less likely to commit a clanger. They will however turn the ball over a lot more but IMO that is indicative of the volume of ball they see and how aggressive they use it.

Where Kolo stands out is as a tackler, and with spoils, which IMO reflects good athleticism. But consider how much more aggressive Henderson and Stewart are in the air, in terms of marks/intercept marks, I don't think you can call him our best stopper or defender. You can certainly argue he belongs in the team (I don't disagree with that) but trying to argue Kolo is statistically some kind of great defender.....maybe anecdotally but nah, that's not reflected in the stats.

all up I think aerially we are a stronger cohesive unit with kolo In defense. We probably got uncharacteristically out marked a bit without him down there over the weeks. He provides also another strong body and good intercept mark when the ball is kicked in high.

 

[Gunf]

It truly amazes me how almost every thread turns into an argument about which of our players are s**t

 

[catempire]

And is that reflective of Kolo being significantly better or just part of a significantly better team defense over time? Across Kolo's entire career, we've pretty much been a top 4 team. The others have had some pretty poor team results, Obviously none more so than Gold Coast.

That’s the beauty of theses stats. The worse the team the more likely you are to be isolated one on one and the only measure of success is winning or losing. The best player in the game on this measure is Weitering who gets isolated a s**t tonne because Carlton’s system is garbage but he wins some ridiculous % (like 83% or something).

A good defensive system has no bearing on this stat.

 

[DanA]

Did anyone even slightly imply that?
I'm pretty sure the stats brought up were to support the opinion that he's an ok player... you know... which he is.

Kolo is our best defender bar none. Yes, Stewart is a multiple AA and gets a lot of the ball, but no one in our side defends as well as Kolo.

It's the reason he kept Corbett to just two disposals on the weekend, and the reason he was given Dusty in last year's GF (even though he was beaten).

It's also part of the reason he's our only player 25 or under to have played more than 100 games.

 

[DanA]

That’s the beauty of theses stats. The worse the team the more likely you are to be isolated one on one and the only measure of success is winning or losing. The best player in the game on this measure is Weitering who gets isolated a sh*t tonne because Carlton’s system is garbage but he wins some ridiculous % (like 83% or something).

A good defensive system has no bearing on this stat.

But that's simply can't be true. A good team defence isn't just about the contest at the ball drop, it's also about the delivery and your team mates positioning to provide an outlet. The quality of deliver is heavily impacted by how much pressure is on the guy kicking down the field and then your ability to clear the ball is very dependent on where you're teammates are and how easy a skill is to execute. How aggressive you are in the contest also matters because there is a big difference between winning and not losing.

And incidentally I'm not surprised Weitering is awesome in spite of being in a crap team because well.....he's awesome.

 

[catempire]

But that's simply can't be true. A good team defence isn't just about defenders, it also comes down to how much pressure is on the guy kicking down the field. I'm not surprised Weitering is awesome in spite of being in a crap team because well.....he's awesome.

You don’t see the mental gymnastics you have to go to to somehow arrive at the conclusion that confirms your bias?

there is a simple explanation staring you in the face...

 

[Seeds]

his had One game over 20 touches this season from his appearances. How is that a lock into a premiership contending best 22 midfield?? It’s far from it. His not youth anymore either so the development argument doesn’t cut it.

he needs consistency with or will be back into reserves without any dramas

So your changing your story. There aren’t any 10-12 disposal games with poor defensive pressure.

he has only played four full games this year. And in all but one he has been given less then 63 percent game time. with more normal game time he would of reached 20 disposals in other games too.

 

[AM]

It truly amazes me how almost every thread turns into an argument about which of our players are sh*t

You've made me feel so-so bad. Zuthrie gets the selection nod not because CS loves him but because he is a key component to our flag prospects. He's a caring brother. Great hair. Is good to his Mum. I feel so much better about myself now.

 

[STPer18]

Am I wrong in thinking Henry is being wasted by playing on the opposition's best key forward the past two weeks?

 

[Seeds]

Am I wrong in thinking Henry is being wasted by playing on the opposition's best key forward the past two weeks?

Agree. He needs to be in a more attacking defender role to utilise his talents.

 

[Seeds]

	Kyle Hartigan	Jake Kolodjashnij	Adam Tomlinson	Tom Clurey	Sam Collins		Jack Henry	Tom Stewart	Lachie Henderson
	HAW​	GEEL	MELB	PORT	GCFC​		GEEL	GEEL	GEEL
Frees Against	1.6	1.3	0.9	0.7	1.1		0.1	0.6	0.8
Marks	3.4	6.1	5.4	6	6.6		5.2	7.9	7.5
Intercept Marks	1.2	1.3	1.4	2.3	2.6		1.8	2.4	2.1
Tackles	0.6	2.1	1.3	0.8	1.9		2	1.3	1.4
Pressure Acts	6	6.3	5	5.1	8.3		8.4	7.2	6.5
Spoils	5.5	5.3	4.3	5.2	7.4		3.9	2.9	4
Contested Defence 1 on 1's	4.2	3.6	3	4.1	4.7		1.8	2	3.1
Contested Defense Loss Percentage	33.3	28	4.8	24.3	23.4		18.8	26	32.3
		3
Kicking Efficiency	84.4	76.5	77.4	77.6	78.9		89.2	81.5	87.5
Clangers	2.6	2.4	2.4	1.8	2.4		0.8	2.3	1.9
Meters Gained	114.1	141.6	174.7	187.1	178.1		166.6	488.5	325.2

To nip this stat stuff in the bud, I've picked out the four players I'd consider most comparable to Kolo. They are:

• Sam Collins
• Adam Tomlinson
• Tom Clurey, and
• Kyle Hartigan.

And Kolo sits in the middle to lower end of this group statistically almost across the board, which fits with where I would rank him. A solid but not exceptional player. IMO the only good player in this group is Sam Collins, and he consistently wins in terms of stats in this group of fairly limited players. Tomlinson has an amazing contested defence lost percentage, but IMO a big part of that is playing for Melbourne's great team defence. Something Kolo benefits from but to a lesser degree. I'd consider Hartigan a poor player, and easily the worst of the group, not good enough to start in our team. Kolo IMO comfortably beats him out both statistically and in terms of what I've observed anecdotally.

In terms of Geelong players, Kolo sits well behind the other three statistically. Of particular note is that Kolo has a significantly higher number of clangers and frees against, particularly compared to Henry. So supporters that think Kolo gives away more goals than the others, particularly compared to how much of the ball he sees/wins....they aren't wrong. Kolo is comfortably the worst of the four as a ball users by foot. Henry is extremely safe, but like Kolo limited (no surprise there) while Stewart/Henderson are both utterly dominant in terms aggression using the ball, as indicated by metres gained, but also are far less likely to commit a clanger. They will however turn the ball over a lot more but IMO that is indicative of the volume of ball they see and how aggressive they use it.

Where Kolo stands out is as a tackler, and with spoils, which IMO reflects good athleticism. But consider how much more aggressive Henderson and Stewart are in the air, in terms of marks/intercept marks, I don't think you can call him our best stopper or defender. You can certainly argue he belongs in the team (I don't disagree with that) but trying to argue Kolo is statistically some kind of great defender.....maybe anecdotally but nah, that's not reflected in the stats.

Can you compare him to henry, Henderson and stewart?

 

[DanA]

You don’t see the mental gymnastics you have to go to to somehow arrive at the conclusion that confirms your bias?

there is a simple explanation staring you in the face...

Hardly mental gymnastics. Three points
1. The best players are aggressive and go for intercept marks rather than spoil. These players will regularly be AA’s in spite of having mediocre loss percentage.
2. Players that spoil more often will win less but not lose as much. Th absolute best of them are still very good players but probably not best in league as halving a contest isn’t as valuable as winning one.
3. Being on a good team significantly improves your chance of success. Even in one on one contests.

That it, no hoops, or gymnastics, just plain and obvious logic.

 

[catempire]

Hardly mental gymnastics. Three points
1. The best players are aggressive and go for intercept marks rather than spoil. These players will regularly be AA’s in spite of having mediocre loss percentage.
2. Players that spoil more often will win less but not lose as much. These absolute best of these players are very good but not best in league.
3. Being on a good team significantly improves your chance of success. Even in one on one contests.

That it, no hoops, or gymnastics, just plain and obvious logic.

The gymnastics is the fact that it requires ignoring the most obvious explanation: that in reasonable sample sizes the best one on one defenders will score highly on this measure. To tell a story otherwise requires a set of unlikely theories that magically happen to improve only Kolodjashnij’s performance and confirm the bias of those that don’t rate him.

 

[DanA]

Can you compare him to henry, Henderson and stewart?

I did, you might need to scroll across. Or are you asking should I? In answer to that.... probably not given their different roles.