Adam Goodes declines Hall of Fame invitation

[jle101]

You can be insensitive and not be racist, people seem to be missing this.

No-one's missing anything. You've been owned a multitude of times in this thread over this ridiculous claim which is straight up incorrect. You're not adding anything here.

 

[Strange Cat]

Ah yes. Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject, so you know you're getting the best possible information.

BRB I’m going to argue with my uni lecture that using a wiki source is a credible source to use when researching

wish me well

 

[Underarm]

A bit like Gary Ablett Junior being booed over a period in 2019. There was a feeble reason initially for the booing, but after a while that got lost and people just did it...because they could.

Right, Got away with a few elbows, liked a homophobic Instagram post. But then it died and people got over it and he went back to being the GOAT and got a standing ovation when he left the game.

 

[Inspector Malceski]

To play devils advocate for a second, plenty of Indigenous players have been subjected to racist taunts in the past as well and they never got or get booed. So why do you think Goodes was singled out?

Its like this..

Lets say a KKK member storms a school & shoots dead 8 black kids, 1 white kid but leave 16 black kids & 50 white kids alive.

Considering he didn't kill only black kids (1 white kid) & did not kill all black kids is it a racist shooting??

People like to play the little word games, semantic to say its not racist but those who peddle them are racist themselves!

 

[Schneebly11]

All of these people saying it was racist booing are having a very simple analysis at what happened. If it was racist, then why wasn't he booed in the previous 15 years? Why wasn't other indigenous players booed? The booing was specific to Adam Goodes and had nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

He wasn’t booed previously because he wasn’t made into a target. Watch the Final Quarter documentary and you’ll see it was right wing media types like Andrew Bolt, Miranda Devine and Steve Price who whipped up a lot of hate at Goodes. Don’t forget Sam Newman having a go at him. All because of his comments on indigenous issues that made them uncomfortable. For “dividing Australia”. Yeah the booing was based on his comments on racial issues, so race was a factor.

And the booing only started after he pointed out a 12 year old girl as being a racist (when clearly she was too young to know what she was saying) and that didn't sit well with most people.

Really? She was 13 btw. That’s early high school. Kids are smoking and having sex at that age. I knew that “monkey” “ape” “n-word” etc were racial slurs by about 10 years old. I definitely knew by age 13 if I said them towards a black person I’d be in serious trouble, and I went through school well before the Goodes incident when we weren’t as racially tolerant (or at least thought we were).

She said those words because she grew up in an environment where they were acceptable and used.

Goodes also never specifically pointed out a 13 year old girl, he simply turned and pointed out the person in crowd who made the racial slur to security. It’s not as if in the middle of the game he had time to question her about her age, beliefs and motives.

can people who are saying it was racism please answer the above questions and not dance around the facts.

Done, I don’t know if you yourself know the facts considering you couldn’t get the girl’s age right.

 

[Aramis]

Goodes was more outspoken about it.

Harry O'Brien was pretty outspoken too, don't remember him getting booed religiously.

 

[owen87]

No-one's missing anything. You've been owned a multitude of times in this thread over this ridiculous claim which is straight up incorrect. You're not adding anything here.

Owned?

Are you 12?

The only people looking stupid are the ones that have been trying to label everyone a racist for 5 years, and still not getting it.

 

[Schneebly11]

Harry O'Brien was pretty outspoken too, don't remember him getting booed religiously.

Harry/Heritier also didn’t get an avalanche of Bolt/Devine/Jones columns targeted at him.

 

[Obeanie1]

This thread is going to be a sh*t show.

In saying that though I don't blame Goodes for how he feels. How he was treated in those final few years was deplorable. Every time he touched the ball he was reminded at how many people hate him just for the colour of his skin

Player not found

. That would wear anyone down.

Getting booed for whatever reason would wear anyone down.

Goodes copped more than likely anyone else in the game however not every boo Goodes got was because of race. It just wasn't.

The problem is it is impossible to tell if a boo is a racial taunt or if it was just a football related taunt that any player gets when they p!ss off the crowd.

I feel for Goodes and it is a tragedy that his AFL experience ended so badly. It is also terrible that the AFL didn't do enough to address the booing issue. How you stop people with free speech booing a sports star during a game is an interesting problem to solve all in itself.

I admit I booed Goodes watching TV(Darwin based), not because of race but because at the time I just hated the Swans. The AFL were propping up the Swans with COLA and buckets of cash and they were the AFL's marketing team in NSW. I hated the fact that one team was being supported more by AFL House than any other.

I also felt Swans and Goodes got the 'rub of the green' with the umpires and MRP. I booed every Swans player, some such as Barry Hall, quite a bit louder than others.

Understand why he rejected the honor and won't be surprised if he never accepts it. And fair enough.

 

[ashep]

A look at precisely how much effort HirdsTheWord put into his "argument" here

You understand that Systemic Racism is defined as racism which is embedded in Laws and Regulations right?

 

[jle101]

Owned?

Are you 12?

The only people looking stupid are the ones that have been trying to label everyone a racist for 5 years, and still not getting it.

Just so everyone is up to speed, check out this pearl of wisdom that Owen farted out earlier in the thread...

You can be an insensitive flog who thought it was funny to get involved with the rest of the crowd booing Goodes. That doesn't therefore make you racist. It also diminshes actual racism.

LOL! Carrying on along with a crowd of racists as they racially taunt somebody supposedly "diminshes" actual racism.

Ok.

 

[Mofra]

Remember when Lindsay Thomas slid legs first into Gary Rohan at the SCG and broke his leg in 2012? Would it have been standard practice for Sydney fans to boo Thomas for the rest of that game following that incident? I think most footy fans would understand it would be.

Now imagine for a second the media took that moment and decided to link it to racism. Headlines like “Sydney’s racial shame: Thomas booed out of the SCG” or “Mark Robinson: Sydney fans must be better”. How would that make you feel? Would it frustrate you that the media took that moment out of context and unfairly crucified Sydney fans for it?

Then imagine the media interviewed Lindsay Thomas and asked him how he felt about the SCG booing and Thomas responded with “It’s disappointing those fans booed me and I don’t understand why they felt the need to do it – I will never apologise for being Indigenous”. Would it be somewhat frustrating if Lindsay Thomas himself was completely oblivious to his actions which led to the SCG booing?

This is essentially what happened to Adam Goodes. Fans felt frustrated the media and Goodes misunderstood them. Fans felt frustrated they were incorrectly shamed as racists. The booing campaign that followed was essentially a middle finger from the fans to the media and Goodes who failed to understand their innocuous intentions.

Now it all obviously blew out of control and got way too ugly (I think most reasonable people appreciate this), but many fans clearly still feel it is unfair they are branded as racists for calling out the media and Goodes’ misunderstanding of them. It explains why this thread has blown out to 24 pages in under 24 hours.

It does irritate me no-one ever seems to mention the media’s role, whilst the fans, AFL and Goodes himself receive all the vitriol. The media created problem, poured fuel on the problem and now shames everyone but themselves for the problem. It is pathetic they get away with it.

The booing didn't start over any on field incident in play.
It started when he publicly objected to racist language.

 

[owen87]

Just so everyone is up to speed, check out this pearl of wisdom that Owen farted out earlier in the thread...


LOL! Carrying on along with a crowd of racists as they racially taunt somebody supposedly "diminshes" actual racism.

Ok.

Yes.

Labelling everyone and everything as racism, diminishes actual racists and racism. We've seen this happen again, and again, and again.

Start calling everyone sexist, or homophobic, or racist, and what gets lost is any form of actual, logical discourse about why things happen.

Your argument is "everyone who booed Adam Goodes is a racist because I said so" without any room for discussion or consideration for what went on or why.

You can make up your own interpretation all your like, but there's a hell of a lot more at play in the Goodes saga than "lel racists" like you're trying to claim.

It's the same logic people use in so many situations now, label anything you dislike and you don't have to actually think or engage.

 

[carloss]

The booing started with Hawthorn, lets not forget that

 

[Aramis]

Harry/Heritier also didn’t get an avalanche of Bolt/Devine/Jones columns targeted at him.

Point remains; he simply wasn't booed exclusively due to his Aboriginality or the colour of his skin. Thats the narrative, that a random group of approximately 30k-50k fans, who were strangers to one another, collectively acted in cahoots and booed him solely for being Aboriginal/outspoken about his Aboriginality week after week. That is clearly a narrative built on political motivation, ulterior motive and falsehoods. I will accept there may have been a minority of racially motivated individuals partaking but certainly no more than exists at any other point in AFL's history.

 

[Obeanie1]

Fair enough. Not sure the AFL can do much more st this stage. They didn’t support him at the time although other than telling people not to boo is there much else they could do? Even then if the AFL did mandate this it would be to label everyone who boos a racist.

Goodes copped it like no other player and the hubris to suggest otherwise is being disingenuous.

There are plenty of indigenous players that everyone admires. For whatever reason Goodes ruffled the feathers of AFL supporters like no other.

And that is the crux of the discussion.

Why was Goodes booed more than any other indigenous player?

It the crowd is so racist why are they not booing other indigenous players?

The sum of the reasons why people booed him compared to others is the real issue.

 

[Aramis]

The booing started with Hawthorn, lets not forget that

We certainly did, because he tore us a new one in the 2012 grand final and was a big part in Buddy Franklin leaving us a year later. We disliked him greatly, but not for the reasons you're trying to imply.

 

[jle101]

Your argument is "everyone who booed Adam Goodes is a racist because I said so" without any room for discussion or consideration for what went on or why.

That wasn't my argument. I said that everyone who went along with the trend & booed Goodes helped provide a breeding ground for racism.

Look, bro, if you were someone who booed him at the time for whatever reason & feel upset at now being painted as a racist, then you need to just move on just like Adam did. Endlessly repeating the same dialogue on an internet forum in an effort to defend yourself isn't going to change a thing. What's done is done & is a major stain on the game & nation alike.

 

[Aramis]

The booing didn't start over any on field incident in play.
It started when he publicly objected to racist language.

Got some actual evidence to back up this bare assertion?

 

[PP34]

The reality is one of the greatest players to ever play the game was run out of the sport because of the way he was treated.
It's just something that can't be undone. It can't be fixed. Sure, other players have been vilified but that doesn't make it
any better. It was just terrible. That a bloke who played 356 games, and who is actually a really decent, likable chap felt he
couldn't go on any longer and had leave the game like that.

Yep.

Racism aside, how does anyone not find the way this bloke was treated by sheep fans and the media in his last few years disgraceful?

Instead of getting all the plaudits, the nice retirement etc he couldn’t wait to finish up.

This is one of the game’s greats we are talking about. He feels so badly he wants nothing to do with the game. That is awful.

Absolute rubbish the he is a diver, flopper and dirty player bullshit. He hardly did anything. Plenty of champions have done far worse over years and weren’t booed out of the game.

 

[owen87]

That wasn't my argument. I said that everyone who went along with the trend & booed Goodes helped provide a breeding ground for racism.

Nope. You said:

It's a form of silent racism.

Which completely misses the point, or any further discourse of any value on the topic. Standard play in the modern world though. Disgaree with something, say it's racist, avoid discussing anything of any meaning or relevance.

Look, bro

Again, are you 12?

if you were someone who booed him at the time

I wasn't. I don't boo anyone at the football because I think it's childish.

you need to just move on

Something you've seemingly failed to do.

If your only thought process is labelling what would have been tens of thousands of individual people that you've never met, or spoken to, as racists, in order to avoid thinking or discussing an issue in any depth. That's a you problem.

 

[Bardo State]

If we're honest with ourselves, we all know that he was treated worse than any footballer in the past 20 years by crowds because he thought that racism against him and other aboriginal people was important enough to make a fuss about. Similar story to Lumumba.

I was genuinely ashamed as a Hawthorn supporter for our games against Sydney at the end of Goodes' career.

Goodes was booed because he was an aboriginal man who had the audacity to tell the truth that Australia has a violent, racist past. And then a bunch of morons at the footy showed that it also has a pretty racist present.

It was plain as anything. "Attention seeker", "diver", "divisive", "plays for frees", "flog". At least have the guts to say that you didn't like that he called out a girl for being racist at the footy and making you think a bit about how much easier your life is because you weren't born black.

 

[Mofra]

Got some actual evidence to back up this bare assertion?

Sure.

Sliding knees 2012: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-10/afl-clamps-down-on-sliding/4003234
Booing starts 2015: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...ooed-across-australia-how-did-it-come-to-this

Now, where's your actual evidence to back up your assertion earlier - that the booing started after the sliding knees incident and subsequent rule change?

 

[Underarm]

Got some actual evidence to back up this bare assertion?

Where's the evidence of the oppsite? Which incidents made him become the most hated player in the leauge - More hated than convicted drug cheats(Jobe Watson), or Dirty players like Barry Hall, Luke Hodge or Andrew Gaff. Or even known divers and duckers like Joel Selwood? Why doesn't he get booed week in week out every time he gets the ball?

 

[hawkman]

The booing started with Hawthorn, lets not forget that

We seem to have that in us. Both Bartel and Ablett blatantly dived to win free kicks against us and copped the boos for the next couple of games. I watched at a bit of the 2014 H&A game after reading this thread last night to see what it was like back then. Channel 7 probably had the crowd noise down but there was barely a murmer when Goodes got the ball. Will have a look at the 2015 game to see the comparison

I don’t think it started out as racial abuse but it certainly was towards the end of it