List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Ash24]

We have more than one draft pick though. 33 on the senior list, need to reach a minimum of 36.

Don't we already have max Cat A rookies? I'd assume that means we'd upgrade Kennedy (34) and Honey (35) to the senior list, leaving us with just pick 25 (36) + Akuei (Cat B) in the draft.

 

[PezzDogg95]

Don't we already have max Cat A rookies? I'd assume that means we'd upgrade Kennedy (34) and Honey (35) to the senior list, leaving us with just pick 25 (36) + Akuei (Cat B) in the draft.

Yes, but we still have to make 3 selections at the draft, only one of those may be a rookie upgrade. 2 live picks & 1 rookie upgrade.
LOB as the final rookie Cat A.
Akuei as the final rookie Cat B.
Doch then needs to be moved to the LTI to create a final list spot for Cottrell.

If the club did what you're suggesting they could have just re-signed Cottrell right now instead of delisting him first. He needs to be delisted for the final lisy lodgement as he will return in the additional rookie spot opened up by an LTI.

 

[Donnini]

Just shows how tight our list spots are. Next year is going to be even more interesting as we hit the draft.

 

[Bletch]

Yes, but we still have to make 3 selections at the draft, only one of those may be a rookie upgrade. 2 live picks & 1 rookie upgrade.
LOB as the final rookie Cat A.
Akuei as the final rookie Cat B.
Doch then needs to be moved to the LTI to create a final list spot for Cottrell.

If the club did what you're suggesting they could have just re-signed Cottrell right now instead of delisting him first. He needs to be delisted for the final lisy lodgement as he will return in the additional rookie spot opened up by an LTI.

Let's have a look at the rule...
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6.2 Procedure for National Draft Selection Meeting
...
(d) Number of Draft Selections
(i) At a National Draft Selection Meeting:
(A) each Club shall exercise a minimum of 3 Draft selections (including selections forfeited under Rules 8.7, 10.11(a), 13.4(b), 14.4(d) and 15.8(b)); and
(B) no Club may exercise more than 3 Draft selections if the consequence would be that it would exceed the number of Players which it is entitled to include on its Primary List pursuant to these Rules.

10.11 Inclusion of Rookie List Player onto Primary List
(a) Primary List
A Club may apply to the AFL to transfer a Player or Players from its Rookie List onto its Primary List:
(i) on the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to the National Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 6.1 by lodging with the AFL the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 33. In which case, the Club shall forfeit its last selection or, if more than one player, its last and each previous draft selection at the National AFL Draft Selection meeting.
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I know there's been a lot of talk here about one rookie upgrade, but it's clear that is not the case from the above rule.

As it stands now, we have 39 contracted, listed players covering Primary (33) and Rookie (6) lists. We also have one Cat-B Rookie (Owies).
We have also committed to LOB & Cotts, which would take the rookie list size to 8. This is over the maximum of 6, so it seems likely we'll upgrade two rookies to bring the list sizes to Primary (35) and Rookie (6), leaving just one spot for a draftee.

However, as several people have conjectured, we might be looking to do something with a player on the LTI, and hold off on Cottrell till later. Although players on LTI must be included in the Primary list at nomination, we could move one back on to the list after the draft, then list Cottrell via the supplementary list, or some similar mechanism.

To be honest, I'm really concerned about this - any player going on the LTI needs AFL approval. If we've already committed to Cottrell, and we're taking 2 draft picks, we'd have to already have approval from the AFL. This would be an unusual circumstance, and that has me worried. Frankly, I'm hoping the simpler answer is correct - we're just taking one draft pick.

Last thing, reading the rules again, I think we'll be able to sign LOB while he's still on the Primary list - on the understanding he will be moved to the Rookie list after the National Draft. That avoids having to delist him, and potentially have another club pick him up.

 

[blueycarlton]

Just shows how tight our list spots are. Next year is going to be even more interesting as we hit the draft.

Another 12 months with a full AFL/ VFL season and the club can make educated decisions on Dow, LOB, Cottrell, Marchbank, Williamson, Newnes, Owies, Boyd, Ed Curnow, Docherty, Fisher, Fogerty.
Plenty there to consider to retain, retire, or trade/discard.

 

[bigblueboy]

Why wouldn't they nominate? They'd rather get picked on a main list and potentially more years and one year one a roomie list

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Because they could get picked up as a DFA and still get the same contract as going through the draft.

They won't nominate and I doubt they will get picked up as DFA - lists are very tight and clearly they were on the block during the trade period.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Another 12 months with a full AFL/ VFL season and the club can make educated decisions on Dow, LOB, Cottrell, Marchbank, Williamson, Newnes, Owies, Boyd, Ed Curnow, Docherty, Fisher, Fogerty.
Plenty there to consider to retain, retire, or trade/discard.

This. I love the fact that all the rookies have been given another year to prove themselves. Fringe players were pushing s**t uphill under the Teague regime, they all deserve a shot to prove their worth in a (hopefully) coherent system.

 

[FRUMPY]

Because they could get picked up as a DFA and still get the same contract as going through the draft.

They won't nominate and I doubt they will get picked up as DFA - lists are very tight and clearly they were on the block during the trade period.

You get picked up then the contract will be more than a one-year rookie contract. If im O'brien and another club contacted me and said 'we will take you in the national draft or as a DFA' i would be happy as larry.

 

[Bletch]

Another 12 months with a full AFL/ VFL season and the club can make educated decisions on Dow, LOB, Cottrell, Marchbank, Williamson, Newnes, Owies, Boyd, Ed Curnow, Docherty, Fisher, Fogerty.
Plenty there to consider to retain, retire, or trade/discard.

On reflection, as much as I was surprised by yesterday's announcement, I think it's a good thing. After years of offloading a dozen or so players each year, this year, just 6 players have left - two to retirement, one to another club. Just three delistings. It's a real show of faith in the list, and I can't help but think that this will motivate that group of players to perform next year.

I wonder how much influence Vossy had on that decision? Did he say "I want a year to look at these guys, let's not write them off yet"?

That being said, we've now got 22 players out of contract in 2022, so will be a lot of decisions to make.

 

[bigblueboy]

You get picked up then the contract will be more than a one-year rookie contract. If im O'brien and another club contacted me and said 'we will take you in the national draft or as a DFA' i would be happy as larry.

Nothing stopping another club offering him 4 years on a senior list as a DFA when the window opens before the national draft.

If another club is interested, they have no motivation to ask him to nominate for the draft. They pick him up as DFA.

If no other club is interested, why bother nominating?

 

[bmaurizio]

Just shows how tight our list spots are. Next year is going to be even more interesting as we hit the draft.

Next year there’ll be another list clean out after a closer reassessment during 2022, some will not gravitate to Vossy way and others are just not good enough.
Plenty of work to be done, they opted for minimal changes to list in 2021 trading , for some stability and reviews of list potential on hand.
Now that the coaching panel is in place, the real work begins behind the scenes , re our underperforming youngsters and the perennial injured.
We can’t carry players for 2 or 3 seasons with minimal participation on the park.

 

[FRUMPY]

Next year there’ll be another list clean out after a closer reassessment during 2022, some will not gravitate to Vossy way and others are just not good enough.

Yep, its pretty easy to clear spots, each year there are 5+ players who would be easy to delist.

 

[therubbernub]

Cottrell while no superstar has showed more than enough to retain a spot on a rookie list. He is up there with the best runner at the club and when called up at a bare minimum applies huge defensive running and physicality for a wingman. A terrible kick atm yes, but generally players with that level of work ethic make it into quality players. I recall Ed Curnow being similar when we picked him up and he's ended up alright. Another I can recall being Kamdyn McIntosh He's exactly the type to keep around instead of a late pick because we know he is dedicated and wants to succeed. Who knows if we'll end up with some kid with a better kick but no drive and no tank.

I feel that Vos is an ideal coach to assess Cottrell. His running and application cant be faulted, but is that enough? Vos being a "fairly" tough player as well as being highly skilled, will know what Cotrell needs to improve in order to make it. Maybe Vos will think that endurance and toughness along with only fair skills will be enough for a role player and persist with him. Or maybe his skills are there but due to the role that DT had him playing , it stressed his skills too much under pressure. Who knows, its only speculation, but I certainly look forward to vos's eye being cast over our list and see who makes it and who doesnt. one thing's for sure, we are going to be a much tougher,more competitive side

 

[therubbernub]

Cottersl & Parks
Exciting times ahead, we need our more skilled youngsters and recent mature bodied acquisitions regain their form and go to the next stage, unfortunately Cotteral & Parks although tenacious, hard nose and likable aren’t the future.

Not sure how you can be so dogmatic. Lets let vos take a look first shall we?

 

[The Return of the Paf]

If

Another 12 months with a full AFL/ VFL season and the club can make educated decisions on Dow, LOB, Cottrell, Marchbank, Williamson, Newnes, Owies, Boyd, Ed Curnow, Docherty, Fisher, Fogerty.
Plenty there to consider to retain, retire, or trade/discard.

That's roughly six changes, IMO, before you even look at borderline cases or possible offers from other clubs. I would have prefered we cut a fraction deeper this year, TBH. Not because I don't think most of those don't deserve at least one more year in theory, but because it puts all weight on next year's intake.

 

[therubbernub]

Cezz is more like a bigger version of Dion Prestia.

Dont see it myself. Physically totally different

 

[bmaurizio]

I look forward to a year of concerted assessments of underperforming youngsters, ascertaining futures of Marchbank, Cunningham, Docherty and seeing how Charlie and Mitch go after long interruptions, hard informed decisions, will be made, I’m certain the internal review cited such, along with our coaching and administrational problems.
The pieces are finally falling in place, Cook steering the ship , Williams has a grip of footy department with his Lieutenant Voss we really can’t go wrong, it will take a couple of years , more patience is needed , but this time it’s the real deal.
Upwards and Onwards, Blue Baggers.

 

[therubbernub]

Back to basics: How Kennedy turned his game around

Matt Kennedy had an influential second half of the season despite a rocky start

www.carltonfc.com.au

View attachment 1260007

“I found I was trying to improve in so many areas that I was forgetting to play to my strengths which is my physicality and tackle pressure,” he said.

IMO vos will love this guy

 

[bmaurizio]

If

That's roughly six changes, IMO, before you even look at borderline cases or possible offers from other clubs. I would have prefered we cut a fraction deeper this year, TBH. Not because I don't think most of those don't deserve at least one more year in theory, but because it puts all weight on next year's intake.

Stability is important so they opted for an informed and cautious approach and have their long term goals and targets.
I can foresee plenty of fireworks re our future playing list come October 2022.
Some will be disenfranchised and grumpy but smart & informed revisions are the only way to go forward.

 

[bmaurizio]

“I found I was trying to improve in so many areas that I was forgetting to play to my strengths which is my physicality and tackle pressure,” he said.

IMO vos will love this guy

Yup and Matt will prosper under Voss not sure about Mitch or Charlie they been pampered a bit , but they may accept the change ? will be exhilarating and very interesting to experience a real revamped.
Vossy & Hansen and assistants are an expert panel of coaches we’ve long lacked.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Not sure how you can be so dogmatic. Lets let vos take a look first shall we?

It has nothing to do with the coach and never has. Some players are up to it and others aren't, although I realise some people have different opinions as to who will or won't make it. I personally wish we used a little more foresight and cut a fraction deeper.

 

[Jeremias]

Plenty of work to be done, they opted for minimal changes to list in 2021 trading , for some stability and reviews of list potential on hand.

It would also be due to the uncertainty surrounding the juniors coming through after two years of Covid interruptions. Looking across the league, very few if any clubs have made more changes to the senior list.

It has nothing to do with the coach and never has. Some players are up to it and others aren't, although I realise some people have different opinions as to who will or won't make it. I personally wish we used a little more foresight and cut a fraction deeper.

Whether a player makes it or not never has anything to do with coaching?

Please.

 

[Aramari]

Not sure the gentlemen's agreement applies to former top-10 picks that have only been in the system 4 years. Clubs with National Draft picks south of 50 or 60 would be looking carefully at LOB; he would be a smart, percentage pick at that stage. I am not at all sure he will be at Carlton next year.

LOL so it's an industry-wide understanding, not to take any player downgraded via the rookie draft - unless you want that player. Then it's it's a free-for-all f***fest!

 

[Metalcrusher]

He has a rolling trigger on his contract I think it's 12 games (half season) - not sure on the number. But if he plays 12 games next season his contract is auto triggered again. It was reported when he first signed up. Just not sure on the number of games.

Correct it was not a "contract" extension ... merely executing what was already agreed to.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Stability is important so they opted for an informed and cautious approach and have their long term goals and targets.
I can foresee plenty of fireworks re our future playing list come October 2022.
Some will be disenfranchised and grumpy but smart & informed revisions are the only way to go forward.

Hopefully the 1s and 2s both play finals and we see lots of development leading to minimal list changes again next season.