Coach Chris Scott re-signs to 2022 (aka the Chris Scott discussion Part IV)

[Spazz Cat]

Whether explicitly said or not, the inference is relatively accurate. People, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but it’s an unavoidable truth that there are fans in this category, assess Scott’s coaching like he’s got a side at his disposal the equal of what we had at our peak.
Any normal realistic fan knows that’s not the case.
And many of those who don’t think our side is good enough to match what the previous generation did, lay the blame for that fact (that our list isn’t as good) at Scott’s feet also.

Both these statements are sad but accurate.

The man himself says the competition is so even and our best is as good as anyones.
That's his words not mine and he says it all the time.
As he'd never ever talk s**t you'd think he'd be good enough for us to be competitive in finals or perform better whenever an opposition coach has 2 weeks to focus on us.
The 2009 thing just isn't true. Never heard one Geelong supporter think we are that good. Not once ever. Tottally made up.

 

[PhatBoy]

The man himself says the competition is so even and our best is as good as anyones.
That's his words not mine and he says it all the time.
As he'd never ever talk s**t you'd think he'd be good enough for us to be competitive in finals or perform better whenever an opposition coach has 2 weeks to focus on us.
The 2009 thing just isn't true. Never heard one Geelong supporter think we are that good. Not once ever. Tottally made up.

Do they have to actually say the words ‘we are as good as we were from 1-22 in 2009’ and make the inference literal for the basic message to apply?

I’ve never seen someone actually play football like a broken anus - I don’t know how a broken anus plays football - but I’ve used, and heard used, the phrase ‘we played like a busted arse’ plenty of times.

As such, people who say things like ‘he’s a hopeless coach/has no plan b/has nothing to do with any success’ are probably under some sort of delusion that we have fielded a side that should have just automatically succeeded with any half decent coach, similar to the quality we had in the golden era.



Further complicating the matter is that one faction of critics ask ‘what have we been building towards for 8 years and will it lead to anything’ while the others basically write off a playing group at the end of every season and demand wholesale changes.


It’s like when Roger Myers asked the kids what they wanted in a cartoon: how many of you would like itchy and scratchy to focus on normal issues that you face in everyday life?
(Kids cheer and agree)
How many of you would like jist the opposite with spaceships and off the wall situations?
(Kids cheer and agree)

 

[Max Milburn]

It’s like when Roger Myers asked the kids what they wanted in a cartoon: how many of you would like itchy and scratchy to focus on normal issues that you face in everyday life?
(Kids cheer and agree)
How many of you would like jist the opposite with spaceships and off the wall situations?
(Kids cheer and agree)

Pretty obvious that Scratchy is a disenchanted Cat's supporter.
Itchy is Scott, who at the end of each season murders Scratchy's dreams.
I guess that means Cook is Krusty?

 

[Partridge]

Couldn't care less what you do personally.
If you believe the club is gouging members, there's a simple solution.

Of course not. Just enough to presume how I think about memberships.

 

[Partridge]

Why would anyone use Tuohy, and to an extend Henderson who has been largely excellent when fit, to mount an argument against the recruitment strategy?

Because they've both consistently failed in finals.

 

[PhatBoy]

Because they've both consistently failed in finals.

Statistically that’s not really true.
I’ll openly admit I can’t remember player specific details from basically any game I watch unless I actually rewatch it but Tuohy has numerically been basically identical to every other game he plays. Henderson had one shocker against sydney in 2016 and against Richmond in 2017, two good games against Sydney and Adelaide, and a poor one against melbourne.

At any rate, I don’t see how they need to be copping the wrath from finals failures when basically anyone in blue and white has failed over those last three or four campaigns

 

[Landgraft]

Why would anyone use Tuohy, and to an extend Henderson who has been largely excellent when fit, to mount an argument against the recruitment strategy?

The Tuohy trade in particular is an excellent litmus test to judge whether or not someone is capable of valuing trades.

If you can't see the value in the deal, then you just aren't someone worth talking to.

 

[Max Milburn]

Of course not. Just enough to presume how I think about memberships.

" For a multi-million dollar football club that likes to gouge - sorry, request - money from its supporters..."
So you don't think they gouge supporters?
Sorry, my mistake.

 

[Partridge]

" For a multi-million dollar football club that likes to gouge - sorry, request - money from its supporters..."
So you don't think they gouge supporters?
Sorry, my mistake.

I do. I think the way the AFL has made things now, all clubs - for right or wrong - go above and beyond to try and get money from fans.

I don't think it's necessarily Geelong being grasping or evil, but it's the environment we're in. That they do it I don't think is in much doubt.

 

[Partridge]

Statistically that’s not really true.
I’ll openly admit I can’t remember player specific details from basically any game I watch unless I actually rewatch it but Tuohy has numerically been basically identical to every other game he plays. Henderson had one shocker against sydney in 2016 and against Richmond in 2017, two good games against Sydney and Adelaide, and a poor one against melbourne.

At any rate, I don’t see how they need to be copping the wrath from finals failures when basically anyone in blue and white has failed over those last three or four campaigns

Because they were brought in as mature aged players. Seasoned. Experienced. Ready. No development period like recruiting a 18 year old. Which we were told repeatedly is why it was such a good idea to recruit them. The expectations should quite reasonably be higher than with a skinny recruit.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Do they have to actually say the words ‘we are as good as we were from 1-22 in 2009’ and make the inference literal for the basic message to apply?

I’ve never seen someone actually play football like a broken anus - I don’t know how a broken anus plays football - but I’ve used, and heard used, the phrase ‘we played like a busted arse’ plenty of times.

As such, people who say things like ‘he’s a hopeless coach/has no plan b/has nothing to do with any success’ are probably under some sort of delusion that we have fielded a side that should have just automatically succeeded with any half decent coach, similar to the quality we had in the golden era.



Further complicating the matter is that one faction of critics ask ‘what have we been building towards for 8 years and will it lead to anything’ while the others basically write off a playing group at the end of every season and demand wholesale changes.


It’s like when Roger Myers asked the kids what they wanted in a cartoon: how many of you would like itchy and scratchy to focus on normal issues that you face in everyday life?
(Kids cheer and agree)
How many of you would like jist the opposite with spaceships and off the wall situations?
(Kids cheer and agree)

In this case it's not a figure of speech. No-one I've heard or read has thought we were as good as 2009 literally or figuratively.
It's just a load of s**t that someone made up.

 

[Vdubs]

I absolutely expect the team that he has been in charge of for eight seasons now to deliver a lot more than a limp elimination final exit. Draft picks were given up to get a number of players. A ton of faith was shown in perennially injured players, some of whom never showed anything at all. We were told all manner of bullshit - gleefully endorsed on here - that players such as Tuohy and Henderson and Scott Selwood and Zac Smith were quality. It's not unreasonable to expect a return on that. What you don't expect is that the team would get worse and not better. Now we'll get fed the same crap about Gary Rohan and Dahlhaus. It's probably being believed too. There's a new puff piece in the Geelong Advertiser about how Scott Selwood will make a difference (if you like your quota of players falling over to be filled I guess).

People can think having expectations is sad all they like. For a multi-million dollar football club that likes to gouge - sorry, request - money from its supporters, it's the bare minimum.

What exactly are your expectations of our list ?
-Given that we no longer have those perennial injured Menzel, Linc, Vardy, and Cowan.
Do you accept that each year, that quality has, for more than one reason, diminished?
You were never confident when we had a top list.
Tuohy, Hendo, SS and Smith were about as good as any players available given our NEEDS at those drafts. There is no guarantee we are able to prevent their injuries, and in 75% of those cases, it was and is injuries that has lessened their quality.

 

[Max Milburn]

I do. I think the way the AFL has made things now, all clubs - for right or wrong - go above and beyond to try and get money from fans.

I don't think it's necessarily Geelong being grasping or evil, but it's the environment we're in. That they do it I don't think is in much doubt.

AFL is more interested in money than football, this is true.
I don't think clubs are there yet (except the club accountants, maybe).
I apologise if I misunderstood your point.

 

[Vdubs]

I absolutely expect the team that he has been in charge of for eight seasons now to deliver a lot more than a limp elimination final exit. Draft picks were given up to get a number of players. A ton of faith was shown in perennially injured players, some of whom never showed anything at all. We were told all manner of bullshit - gleefully endorsed on here - that players such as Tuohy and Henderson and Scott Selwood and Zac Smith were quality. It's not unreasonable to expect a return on that. What you don't expect is that the team would get worse and not better. Now we'll get fed the same crap about Gary Rohan and Dahlhaus. It's probably being believed too. There's a new puff piece in the Geelong Advertiser about how Scott Selwood will make a difference (if you like your quota of players falling over to be filled I guess).

People can think having expectations is sad all they like. For a multi-million dollar football club that likes to gouge - sorry, request - money from its supporters, it's the bare minimum.

Whatever you like to come up with, it is objectionable the HATRED that gets spewed up here regarding our coach. Nothing he has done or not done warrants hatred, and that's the sentiment that prevails here too often. Not by you, but if you don't concede that exists, you're kidding us.
Nobody expects all our supporters to like him, but some respect is not unreasonable.
Most of your points are not in his control- who we draft, how they cope with injuries, how the team responds to finals pressure- coaches have very little influence in most of those areas.

 

[Vdubs]

The man himself says the competition is so even and our best is as good as anyones.
That's his words not mine and he says it all the time.
As he'd never ever talk s**t you'd think he'd be good enough for us to be competitive in finals or perform better whenever an opposition coach has 2 weeks to focus on us.
The 2009 thing just isn't true. Never heard one Geelong supporter think we are that good. Not once ever. Tottally made up.

The 09 thing is just a number- pick any year from 07-11. There are definitely supporters here on BF in particular who either have personal issues and footy is their respite, or just expect us to always be in contention.
Those with footy as their ticket to feeling better about their lives do post here, and it's obvious if you read posts regularly. And it creates anger and irrational posts, no doubt. Some have even said that. CS is the obvious recipient of their irrationality, but that's what it is.
And what is CS meant to say about our team? He has always been very honest about our true worth, and listening to 360 reveals a lot more than isolated responses to post mortem questions.

 

[barmy44]

Whatever you like to come up with, it is objectionable the HATRED that gets spewed up here regarding our coach. Nothing he has done or not done warrants hatred, and that's the sentiment that prevails here too often. Not by you, but if you don't concede that exists, you're kidding us.
Nobody expects all our supporters to like him, but some respect is not unreasonable.
Most of your points are not in his control- who we draft, how they cope with injuries, how the team responds to finals pressure- coaches have very little influence in most of those areas.

your point re the bolded is somewhat undermined by you agreeing wholeheartedly with catters070911 (who i doubt is legitimate, in any event - he comes across as poorly any of the 'anti-scott trolls' we have had in here) while he was taking mark thompson apart in pretty objectionable terms over his personal issues recently in this thread...

i honestly think the hatred and vitriol in here (and it goes both ways) are largely problems of individual personality, and the football / club / coach is just the medium through which it manifests. it gets personal far too often.

and honestly, what does it matter? people have disliked their clubs coaches for as long as clubs have had coaches. he wont be universally liked, and thats fine. criticisms of scott can definitely be valid. the opposite is also true.

there are some people in here who have some great POVs on our team and game, and yet the discussion has more often than not been pushed out into this lunatic fringe of arguing over whether scott is the greatest coach in history defying football phsyics, or the worst coach of all time tearing the clubs fabric apart so rapidly we might all end up with friction burns.

the second who 'wins the argument' online effects the outcome of a game or our season, its worth getting worried about. but until then...

 

[Vdubs]

your point re the bolded is somewhat undermined by you agreeing wholeheartedly with catters070911 (who i doubt is legitimate, in any event - he comes across as poorly any of the 'anti-scott trolls' we have had in here) while he was taking mark thompson apart in pretty objectionable terms over his personal issues recently in this thread...

i honestly think the hatred and vitriol in here (and it goes both ways) are largely problems of individual personality, and the football / club / coach is just the medium through which it manifests. it gets personal far too often.

and honestly, what does it matter? people have disliked their clubs coaches for as long as clubs have had coaches. he wont be universally liked, and thats fine. criticisms of scott can definitely be valid. the opposite is also true.

there are some people in here who have some great POVs on our team and game, and yet the discussion has more often than not been pushed out into this lunatic fringe of arguing over whether scott is the greatest coach in history defying football phsyics, or the worst coach of all time tearing the clubs fabric apart so rapidly we might all end up with friction burns.

the second who 'wins the argument' online effects the outcome of a game or our season, its worth getting worried about. but until then...

Bomber is past history and has actually brought some crap upon himself.
As far as I can tell, CS is trying his best as our current coach and our club has deemed him worthy of an extension. Sure, nobody must like him, but respect, yes, vitriol, no.
He does not deserve the crap that is written about him, which evidently is read by journos, media etc.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Whatever you like to come up with, it is objectionable the HATRED that gets spewed up here regarding our coach. Nothing he has done or not done warrants hatred, and that's the sentiment that prevails here too often. Not by you, but if you don't concede that exists, you're kidding us.
Nobody expects all our supporters to like him, but some respect is not unreasonable.
Most of your points are not in his control- who we draft, how they cope with injuries, how the team responds to finals pressure- coaches have very little influence in most of those areas.

A lot of it is just a bit of banter cause the thread gets so over the top it's fun to join in and go over the top yourself. I always do it with Crazy, it's fun to stir each other up.
It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion over CS. This thread since part 1 has proved this.
We just have to accept it and have a bit of fun with it IMO.
He ain't going anywhere for a while.
If you have any criticisms your ungrateful, deluded, think we're as good as 2011 and excpect a flag every single year.
If you like him your deluded, belong in the cheer squad and are too naive to see that he's a con artist.
I think the hatred thing isn't as bad as you think it is.

 

[Vdubs]

A lot of it is just a bit of banter cause the thread gets so over the top it's fun to join in and go over the top yourself. I always do it with Crazy, it's fun to stir each other up.
It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion over CS. This thread since part 1 has proved this.
We just have to accept it and have a bit of fun with it IMO.
He ain't going anywhere for a while.
If you have any criticisms your ungrateful, deluded, think we're as good as 2011 and excpect a flag every single year.
If you like him your deluded, belong in the cheer squad and are too naive to see that he's a con artist.
I think the hatred thing isn't as bad as you think it is.

Agree.
Just sticking to my guns, in the absence of Crazy- someone has to.

 

[Ray Donovan]

The man himself says the competition is so even and our best is as good as anyones.
That's his words not mine and he says it all the time.
As he'd never ever talk s**t you'd think he'd be good enough for us to be competitive in finals or perform better whenever an opposition coach has 2 weeks to focus on us.
The 2009 thing just isn't true. Never heard one Geelong supporter think we are that good. Not once ever. Tottally made up.

I don't think anyone can mount a 2009 talent level argument.

Geelongs best at "home" will probably test any side in the comp.

Just have not proven the ability to be consistent over the 22 rounds and have a gameplan that will hold up in finals.

He is probably right Chris scott you can mount a case although at some point you need to back it up.

That's the elephant in the room no problem with some confidence in the list and his gameplan.

He will need to earn it in 2019 because finals are 50/50 this year and if you miss the 8. Most likely a couple of retirements and they will need to re-tool the list and find a way to get some draft picks

 

[Spazz Cat]

Agree.
Just sticking to my guns, in the absence of Crazy- someone has to.

The 070911 guy is gcrazy.
Yep tottally keep sticking to them. It's good to see

 

[Landgraft]

He will need to earn it in 2019 because finals are 50/50 this year and if you miss the 8. Most likely a couple of retirements and they will need to re-tool the list and find a way to get some draft picks

I'm curious, why do you think this?

It's not as if our list currently lacks draftees, or that the draftees we have are all long-shot project players. I think we need to be mindful of not overbalancing with an excess of youth.

 

[ATSAM]

Whatever you like to come up with, it is objectionable the HATRED that gets spewed up here regarding our coach. Nothing he has done or not done warrants hatred, and that's the sentiment that prevails here too often. Not by you, but if you don't concede that exists, you're kidding us.
Nobody expects all our supporters to like him, but some respect is not unreasonable.
Most of your points are not in his control- who we draft, how they cope with injuries, how the team responds to finals pressure- coaches have very little influence in most of those areas.

If Coaches have very little influence in drafting, managing injuries or how the team responds in finals- that is the most crazy example- then why do we bother with them at all. Lets just have medical staff, recruiting staff and then let the players do what they need to in a game. That is what the great Bomber admitted to' they coach themselves'.

Must say because in all of your responses you are so protective of Scott I can only wonder if you are not he.

 

[Ray Donovan]

I'm curious, why do you think this?

It's not as if our list currently lacks draftees, or that the draftees we have are all long-shot project players. I think we need to be mindful of not overbalancing with an excess of youth.

Fine i I will bite

Tell me where we are finishing this year?

No one in the entire league is is accusing geelong of overbalancing with excess youth.

Mine is simple previous results combined with the current list, rule changes, improvements of other teams !!!!

Before the season has started no emotion of week to week games highs and lows it's just an honest feel I wouldn't project this list to make the 8.

Next season Ablett, Taylor and perhaps scott selwood retires. Tim Kelly maybe heading back to Perth.

You going to bring in more 25 year old free agents on salary to pair up with over 30 selwood and Hawkins.

No will be back to the drawing board in terms of list chris Scott getting a 4 year deal is as much proof as required for me. This will be the final crack for a while if it goes pear shaped early. Will be retool time

Even next year if you cut nearly everything

Selwood, Hawkins, Blicavs, Dangerfield will all still be on the list before you even get to Duncan, 2e, Henderson and so fourth up top regardless your going to have a wealth of veterans

 

[Vdubs]

If Coaches have very little influence in drafting, managing injuries or how the team responds in finals- that is the most crazy example- then why do we bother with them at all. Lets just have medical staff, recruiting staff and then let the players do what they need to in a game. That is what the great Bomber admitted to' they coach themselves'.

Must say because in all of your responses you are so protective of Scott I can only wonder if you are not he.

What I meant to say is once the game starts, he is virtually powerless to arrest an opposition team momentum burst, which is what kills us.
It has been mostly the case that after the original onslaught, we break fairly even. We are never smashed mercilessly.
Obviously coaches are managers and advisers and motivators and can make adjustments at quarter changes, but any team with a run-on during the game is hard to stop. And I'm sure you agree with that.