Is Big Ed cursed?

[Help My Club]

Anyone ever wondered whether our President is in fact cursed?

Consider the following:

(i) Prior to Ed's tenure as President, Collingwood was involved in 38 GF's for 14 wins - strike rate 37%. .
(ii) Since Ed's time as President, Collingwood has now been involved in 44 GF's for 15 wins - resulting in a reduction of already low strike rate to 34%.
(iii) In particular, Collingwood's record during his time as President 6 GF's for 1 win and a draw - but lets call it 5 GF's excluding the draw - strike rate 20%.
(iv) Chairman of Melbourne Stars for 8 years - 2 GF's zero wins. Strike rate - Zero.
(v) Over 28 years as President/Chairman of aforementioned 2 separate clubs - 1 premiership. Strike rate 3.5%.
(vi) Recently, overseen 2 gut wrenching/borderline unloseable GF losses across 2 separate sporting codes in a 6 month period. I challenge anyone to identify a similar scenario anywhere in the history of sports both domestically and/or globally.

Do you think we could ship big Ed of to another club? Maybe Carlton!

If nothing else, you gotta admit this is wierd.

 

[Antz]

Anyone ever wondered whether our President is in fact cursed?

Consider the following:

(i) Prior to Ed's tenure as President, Collingwood was involved in 38 GF's for 14 wins - strike rate 37%. .
(ii) Since Ed's time as President, Collingwood has now been involved in 44 GF's for 15 wins - resulting in a reduction of already low strike rate to 34%.
(iii) In particular, Collingwood's record during his time as President 6 GF's for 1 win and a draw - but lets call it 5 GF's excluding the draw - strike rate 20%.
(iv) Chairman of Melbourne Stars for 8 years - 2 GF's zero wins. Strike rate - Zero.
(v) Over 28 years as President/Chairman of aforementioned 2 separate clubs - 1 premiership. Strike rate 3.5%.
(vi) Recently, overseen 2 gut wrenching/borderline unloseable GF losses across 2 separate sporting codes in a 6 month period. I challenge anyone to identify a similar scenario anywhere in the history of sports both domestically and/or globally.

Do you think we could ship big Ed of to another club? Maybe Carlton!

If nothing else, you gotta admit this is wierd.

Are you talking about Ed or Bucks? In all seriousness if we win a GF over the next few years with Ed and Bucks in charge we can put this so called curse thing to rest.

 

[Hyakutake]

Havent I seen this film before?

Crouching Tiger Hidden Agenda?

 

[BEEG]

Honestly I think he is.

 

[Help My Club]

Are you talking about Ed or Bucks? In all seriousness if we win a GF over the next few years with Ed and Bucks in charge we can put this so called curse thing to rest.

Agreed! But they better hurry.

Notwithstanding, putting aside biases and emotion, the standalone numbers are bizarre (putting it nicely). But the thing that really sticks out for me is the 2 gut wrenching losses from 2 separate codes inside 6 months. Surely unheard of.

 

[76woodenspooners]

If nothing else, you gotta admit this is wierd.

Not really.

13 of our 15 Premierships were won when the competition had 12 teams or fewer. Today there are 50% more teams and that alone distorts the probability of winning them.

And 13 of our 15 Premierships were won in the pre-equalisation era and there were no such things as drafts or footy dept spending limits, or rules against John Wren handing thick brown envelopes to players in the change rooms.

And 14 of our 15 Premierships were won in the era before powerhouse interstate teams entered the league. West Coast, Swans, Brisbane, and Adelaide have collectively won more than their probability of Premierships.

Ed’s pretty much carried on the tradition of getting us to Grand Finals (5) and then losing them (4). When measured over the time he’s been President, it’s a similar strike rate to Tom Sherrin (1963 to 1974) we played in 3 GF and lost 3 GF, and John Hickey (1977 to 1981) we played in 4 GF and lost 4 GF, Syd Coventry (1950 to 1962) we played in 6 GF, won 2 and lost 4, ...

... even the golden machine team era under Harry Curtis we played in 11 and won 6 and lost 5 ... and before that under Jim Sharp (1913 to 1923) we played in 6 GF and won 2 and lost 4, and under our founding President William Beazley (1892 to 1911) we played in 6 GF and won 3 and lost 3.

If you’re looking for curses, you need to look a lot further than just Ed.

(vi) Recently, overseen 2 gut wrenching/borderline unloseable GF losses across 2 separate sporting codes in a 6 month period.

You’re layering the mayonnaise on thick if you reckon the 2018 GF was “unloseable”.

I challenge anyone to identify a similar scenario anywhere in the history of sports both domestically and/or globally.

Um Collingwood? 44 Grand Finals, 15 wins, 2 draws, 27 losses? Ed’s ‘only’ presided over 4 of those 27 losses.

It’s not common for me to go into bat for Ed, but I reckon any suggestion that he’s cursed is a bit silly.

 

[jmac70]

Embarrassing thread.

 

[Scodog10]

Short answer, no.

Long answer, the clubs he’s presided over have been “successful” without the good fortune of tasting the ultimate success as often as you would like so no. For me it’s pretty simple Grand finals are ******* hard to get to let alone win!

IMO, it’s the record with the Stars that stands out like the proverbial. In a competition with just 7 opponents and the stacked squads they’ve had every year except 18-19. They really should have at least one title to their name by now!

Personally I’d like to see him abdicate that role and get to work on us getting a share in a BBL license. If we’re serious about being a “community club” a BBL or NBL franchise are musts. Although I think that was the brainchild of Pert to secure government funding...

 

[jonbe54]

LOL seriously?

Consider 1970 . . . Tuddy takes out Macca whilst he is tearing the bloose a new one and we go down.

Consider 1979 and a certain Wayne Harmes tap from the boundary . . . .

I could go on but you get my drift.

Everything has to go right to win a flag and for Collingwood even more so.

Nothing to do with Ed.

 

[Nuwanda]

Not really.

13 of our 15 Premierships were won when the competition had 12 teams or fewer. Today there are 50% more teams and that alone distorts the probability of winning them.

And 13 of our 15 Premierships were won in the pre-equalisation era and there were no such things as drafts or footy dept spending limits, or rules against John Wren handing thick brown envelopes to players in the change rooms.

And 14 of our 15 Premierships were won in the era before powerhouse interstate teams entered the league. West Coast, Swans, Brisbane, and Adelaide have collectively won more than their probability of Premierships.

Ed’s pretty much carried on the tradition of getting us to Grand Finals (5) and then losing them (4). When measured over the time he’s been President, it’s a similar strike rate to Tom Sherrin (1963 to 1974) we played in 3 GF and lost 3 GF, and John Hickey (1977 to 1981) we played in 4 GF and lost 4 GF, Syd Coventry (1950 to 1962) we played in 6 GF, won 2 and lost 4, ...

... even the golden machine team era under Harry Curtis we played in 11 and won 6 and lost 5 ... and before that under Jim Sharp (1913 to 1923) we played in 6 GF and won 2 and lost 4, and under our founding President William Beazley (1892 to 1911) we played in 6 GF and won 3 and lost 3.

If you’re looking for curses, you need to look a lot further than just Ed.



You’re layering the mayonnaise on thick if you reckon the 2018 GF was “unloseable”.



Um Collingwood? 44 Grand Finals, 15 wins, 2 draws, 27 losses? Ed’s ‘only’ presided over 4 of those 27 losses.

It’s not common for me to go into bat for Ed, but I reckon any suggestion that he’s cursed is a bit silly.

First class response!

 

[Carringbush2010]

Interesting the thought of the OP, for mine it's a Collingwood thing not an Ed thing and both may have similarities.

Ed is very very successful, stumbles along the way and has some big stuff ups but overall he's successful.

Collingwood win titles by weight of numbers, any other teams would probably win more with our amount of contention. Cursed? Think that's a matter of opinion and probably superstitious.

Eddie cursed? Probably has more than a flatulent brain at times, but cursed? Nah probably not.

 

[caloschwaby]

Collingwood is undeniably the most successful club.
- GF appearance on average every 2.7 years
- Participation in 37% of all VFL/AFL Grand Finals
- Have won the most games in VFL/AFL with highest win % (61%)

It's just that stat of premiership cups that everybody clings on to. Hypothetically had we won 2011/2018, we'd be on 17 wins for 25 losses, still a woeful 37% GF strike rate over all. All of a sudden, because we have more cups, we'd be considered the most successful club?

It's worth noting that Essendon won 2 of their 16 premierships through a round robin finals system (1897 & 1924) so are they really on equals with Carlton at this stage?

It's all relative and subject to opinion. However one thing is constant throughout most of VFL/AFL history: Collingwood is the most successful team.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It's all relative and subject to opinion. However one thing is constant throughout most of VFL/AFL history: Collingwood is the most successful team.

One way of looking at it is what periods in the wilderness look like.

Carlton’s current period in the wilderness since around 2000 has netted them 5 wooden spoons ... and IIRC only two seasons playing finals (one of which was on the back of Essendon being disqualified because of the drugs scandal)

Richmond’s period without a Premiership between 1980 and 2017 (37 years) eclipsed our period of the ‘Colliwobbles’ between 1958 and 1990 (32 years) ... and unlike Richmond we were playing in plenty of Grand Finals during that period (7 of my count is correct).

It might be hard to imagine Melbourne was once a powerhouse club, but they were sitting on 12 Premierships in 1964, with 6 of which being won in the previous 9 seasons with the best player in the league Ronald Dale Barassi on their list. After being slighted by Melbourne, Barassi left at the end of ‘64 to eventually coach Carlton and then North Melbourne to 4 combined premierships, while Melbourne then went on to become a basket case of which over half a century later they’re still yet to recover. For perspective: Ron Barassi and Jock McHale were both involved in winning 9 Premierships for their respective clubs. Imagine if Melbourne had looked after their hero? Tsk, tsk ... Collingwood has never been mired in that kind of extended misery.

St Kilda and Western Bulldogs have been perennial battlers in a way that Collingwood hasn’t been since their inception.

North have had a couple of pinnacles of success within a generally mediocre existence.

Hawthorn, Geelong and Essendon have been a bit like us in that they’ve rarely been down, and when they have it’s never been for long. Surprisingly, Essendon being caught up in the drugs scandal so far seems to have been a brief dip for them - but let’s see what happens over the next few seasons.

 

[caloschwaby]

St Kilda and Western Bulldogs have been perennial battlers in a way that Collingwood hasn’t been since their inception.

I'd argue that there's no sadder existence than St Kilda or the Bulldogs.
Two combined premierships and not a lot of success to fill the gaps between.
Saints have got in a fair few GF's too, so I'd rather miss the one or two knowing Collingwood will eventually be back on top.

 

[Help My Club]

Embarrassing thread.

I agree it's a farely light weight thread. Clearly McGuire is not cursed per se but it is interesting/quirky that he seems to attract these horrendous outcomes? Just thought it might invoke interesting discussion but knowing deep down most supporters would get on the defensive.

By the way, is it anymore embarrassing than your recent thread "Who is the biggest club in the AFL?" whereby it is clear that you attempt to garner support/affirmation that all is OK in the world after yet another gut wrenching GF loss? Mind you I get it and genuinely felt sorry for you after last year's GF loss. But the issue is that it is a one way street with you. Whilst you seek to engage dialogue/discussion, deep down you have fixed set views and will not tolerate an opposing view. Period!

 

[legendstatus]

Is Ed cursed. The more pressing question is the OP on crack?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jmac70]

I agree it's a farely light weight thread. Clearly McGuire is not cursed per se but it is interesting/quirky that he seems to attract these horrendous outcomes? Just thought it might invoke interesting discussion but knowing deep down most supporters would get on the defensive.

By the way, is it anymore embarrassing than your recent thread "Who is the biggest club in the AFL?" whereby it is clear that you attempt to garner support/affirmation that all is OK in the world after yet another gut wrenching GF loss? Mind you I get it and genuinely felt sorry for you after last year's GF loss. But the issue is that it is a one way street with you. Whilst you seek to engage dialogue/discussion, deep down you have fixed set views and will not tolerate an opposing view. Period!

My thread got closed by a mod, so I guess you win. Curses are real after all, at least on Big Footy.

 

[ppoiter]

I'd argue that there's no sadder existence than St Kilda or the Bulldogs.
Two combined premierships and not a lot of success to fill the gaps between.
Saints have got in a fair few GF's too, so I'd rather miss the one or two knowing Collingwood will eventually be back on top.

At least it seems like there’s an idea to get behind as a Dogs fan. St Kilda to me is all about being s**t and bitter

 

[Help My Club]

My thread got closed by a mod, so I guess you win. Curses are real after all, at least on Big Footy.

It's not about one winning over the other. That's childish and this blogging thing is not real. It's just a bit of fun.

But seriously, does it all bother you that we have the Head of our Club that just seems to attract these outcomes? Like me, I'm sure you don't want to be exposed to constant losing GF's. And ultimately, that's why I don't want Buckley at the helm. It's absolutely nothing personal at all. I really hope he (and by extension us) break his duck and wins one. But I just sense that it is not his lot in life to win one (a premiership as a player or senior coach). Again I understand that most supporters will vehemently disagree but the reality thus far is not encouraging and we have spent many years, years we can't get back, invested in this.

 

[caloschwaby]

It's not about one winning over the other. That's childish and this blogging thing is not real. It's just a bit of fun.

But seriously, does it all bother you that we have the Head of our Club that just seems to attract these outcomes? Like me, I'm sure you don't want to be exposed to constant losing GF's. And ultimately, that's why I don't want Buckley at the helm. It's absolutely nothing personal at all. I really hope he (and by extension us) break his duck and wins one. But I just sense that it is not his lot in life to win one (a premiership as a player or senior coach). Again I understand that most supporters will vehemently disagree but the reality thus far is not encouraging and we have spent many years, years we can't get back, invested in this.

FYI there is indeed no curse on Ed or Buckley, just a bit funny how it has worked out.
We could've easily had 3 premierships and 2 losses under McGuire. Just how it works out on the day.
He is doing his job as president to get us to Grand Finals, keep us in contention. When we aren't in contention, we don't bottom out like the s**t clubs (Carlton, Brisbane, etc)
Carlton haven't seen greatest in nearly 20 years. Collingwood have been to the top 5 times since then.

 

[Help My Club]

FYI there is indeed no curse on Ed or Buckley, just a bit funny how it has worked out.
We could've easily had 3 premierships and 2 losses under McGuire. Just how it works out on the day.
He is doing his job as president to get us to Grand Finals, keep us in contention. When we aren't in contention, we don't bottom out like the s**t clubs (Carlton, Brisbane, etc)
Carlton haven't seen greatest in nearly 20 years. Collingwood have been to the top 5 times since then.

I agree mate. Of course there is no curse per se. But we, the club, just keep attracting these constant GF losses, time and time again. I don't have the answer as to why. However the easy explanation is to brush it off as pure bad luck, which it may well be. All I know is that Buckley and McGuire are Collingwood men through and through whilst our last 2 premiership coaches weren't indoctrinated Collingwood. Further, correct me if I'm wrong, I think we are the only club going around today that still has a past champion player of the club as senior coach. No other club does it anymore. Maybe there is something in that. Just maybe.

Now Collingwood vs Carlton. Over the past 20 years, we have been far superior to Carlton and yet when it's all said and done, we have moved just one flag closer to catching them. A s**t load of work and effort to get one flag closer. After all that effort and dominance, heaven forbid if the enemy snagged one in the next 5 years and we didn't. Bottom line - you must sieze your chances when they come along. No ifs buts and maybes. You must. Back to Hawthorn and I know people are sick of hearing it. Ongoing GF losses are simply not be tolerated at that club. Possibly the difference lays there.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Lol

Clubs tolerate GF losses?

Absurd.

No club wants to lose GFs.

No club accepts losing GFs as ok.

No club can orchestrate some special magic that makes them immune to performance on one specific day.*

Hence, age only question, is it better to get into them and have a go, or miss out on them and not try?




* the only possible immunity a club can conjure on grand final day is have better players, more elite players. Every single great run of premierships won by any club has one thing in common, their teams are littered with A grade and elite players.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Reminds me of those that follow the Opus Dei sect who get immense enjoyment from self flagellation

 

[No SPIN]

It's not about one winning over the other. That's childish and this blogging thing is not real. It's just a bit of fun.

But seriously, does it all bother you that we have the Head of our Club that just seems to attract these outcomes? Like me, I'm sure you don't want to be exposed to constant losing GF's. And ultimately, that's why I don't want Buckley at the helm. It's absolutely nothing personal at all. I really hope he (and by extension us) break his duck and wins one. But I just sense that it is not his lot in life to win one (a premiership as a player or senior coach). Again I understand that most supporters will vehemently disagree but the reality thus far is not encouraging and we have spent many years, years we can't get back, invested in this.

the 'outcomes' that you speak of have been debunked by others above.

Maybe you can tell us how many clutch goals ED has missed on GF day or which coaching moves he stuffed up.
And I presume he's to blame for Rocca and J Cloke being rubbed out of important GF teams.
Further - apart from 2011 we were not favorites to win any GF we've played during his tenure - so that simply says that the results went against us as expected. ie we were not the best team.

Seriously mate - YOU are being childish.

Eddie is there to steer the club - not coach or play.

So maybe you should tells us how he has performed against HIS OWN KPI's not irrelevant ones.

PS: do we have a review without ED in 2017 ?
and the result is we are back in the premiership race.
That's a pretty simple example of why you are way off with this thread.

 

[No SPIN]

I agree mate. Of course there is no curse per se. But we, the club, just keep attracting these constant GF losses, time and time again. I don't have the answer as to why. However the easy explanation is to brush it off as pure bad luck, which it may well be. All I know is that Buckley and McGuire are Collingwood men through and through whilst our last 2 premiership coaches weren't indoctrinated Collingwood. Further, correct me if I'm wrong, I think we are the only club going around today that still has a past champion player of the club as senior coach. No other club does it anymore. Maybe there is something in that. Just maybe.

Now Collingwood vs Carlton. Over the past 20 years, we have been far superior to Carlton and yet when it's all said and done, we have moved just one flag closer to catching them. A s**t load of work and effort to get one flag closer. After all that effort and dominance, heaven forbid if the enemy snagged one in the next 5 years and we didn't. Bottom line - you must sieze your chances when they come along. No ifs buts and maybes. You must. Back to Hawthorn and I know people are sick of hearing it. Ongoing GF losses are simply not be tolerated at that club. Possibly the difference lays there.

Please give us some evidence or proof that HAW do not tolerate GF losses - specify some clear actions that have followed from such defeats.