List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

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Round 1 we lost Vlastuin
Round 3 we lost cotchin, Prestia and mcintosh
Round 6 we lost lambert and dusty
Round 8 we lost edwards and mid week we lost Bolton.

We got smashed by swans while being 3 down on the bench, unlucky not to beat port in round 4 in Adelaide, then smashed by Dees without our midfield and losing our best player and another midfielder Mid game.

We were unlucky not to be 5-2 heading into round 8 still (after destroying the dogs sans Dusty,

We also usually start poorly (2019 & 2020 being prime examples smashed by pies, GWS, hawks, Saints, dogs in both those years early).

We came off a shortened preseason had the most 6 day break games, we’re mentally exhausted after 4 years of finals football with the bonus of covid/lockdowns etc. We have plenty of valid reasons for a let down season and the players and coach deserve the benefit of the doubt, and another chance to prove themselves.

I don’t get the fear of being a Hawks or cats either. We can’t avoid it, that’s the point of the cap and draft. What can’t be guaranteed is flags (See lions, Freo, blues, bombers, port, Dees (first rebuild with Watts, Scully, Trengove etc..) Saints, gws, gc) who have all got high draft picks in last 15-20 years. So when the chance is there we have to go all in. And if we miss out, the AFL will reward us with top picks anyway.

And now we’re well setup off field we can be more like WCE and Swans who go down and take some top picks and rebuild quicker/stronger.
A lot of what you say is fair except the Swans game. They obliterated us and had nothing to do with injuries they should've won by 100 points they made us look slow and their kicking was surgical. I walked away from that game and the Hawks in round 2 knowing it wasn't gonna be our year.
 
Lol fk me people want to trade Dusty now? Never change BF.

Have you all forgotten who won the premiership last year? And the year before? And 2 years before that?

Whos gone from our 2020 premiership squad?
-Astbury? Replaced by Tarrant.
-Houli? Replaced by Stack/Mansell.

Literally everyone else is playing next year. Yes, Astbury & Houli are losses and you could make an argument Riewoldt/Cotchin have regressed/declining, however in that same breath you could make the argument all of Balta, Baker, Bolton & Short have all improved immensely since that premiership, and we have young talent coming through who weren’t around then.

On the weekend the Dees were at their very best and looked unstoppable. You know who also looked unstoppable just 12 months ago? A Richmond side who were injury-free and playing at their best. But by all means - keep suggesting these ridiculous trades and show BF why Richmond fans are often regarded as the worst in the league (at jumping on their own when down).
What part of players aging and like this season body's giving up most don't get? What makes you so confident it won't be a repeat. Mind you before the injury's started rolling our form was just as bad. Forget next season we won't be anywhere near it and bringing in Tarrant at that age well makes you wonder. Need to make room use all our picks and pick wisely.
 

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I am not saying he will not stop. He can maintain the rage for another six years, or so, I am just saying he will not go to another level.

Did Pendlebury go to another level after 25? I do not think so. I do not think Carey was better after 24
Yup peak bont has arrived...
 
Spot on! And maybe we can try a thing called pressure because Jon Pierik at The Age has just untapped the secret :rolleyes: behind the dees stunning GF victory!
You know the Melbourne way lol or does he mean the RICHMOND WAY!

I am pretty sure that the blueprint for best ever all over the ground pressure team was set by Richmond which netted 3 flags in 4 years and thus other teams including the dees have modelled their game plan around. Jon Perik don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

A premiership blueprint: The numbers behind the Demons’ rise
What was the Melbourne way? Put simply, it was a game built on pressure across the ground, winning the contest no matter how difficult.
And the doggies failed with their own pressure after half time...
 
I love how this board is constantly trying to retire our champs soon as they hit 30/31

meanwhile
Franklin wants to play on after 2022
Selwood will turn 34 and wants to continue
Goldstein 33 and just coming into his prime
Silk retired early at 38
Mummy might play as a 36 year old
Boak signed a 5 year deal as a 33 year old
Pendles 34
Hawkins - 33 and AA

Whats our rush here guys ?
For all we know after 6 months off and mentally reset and no capt duties cotch might get back to doing cotch things
Edwards could be the next Silk
Jack will kick his usual 45-60 goals as a 3nd fwd
Tarrant will think he is 28 again with Grimes , Balta , Vlastuin , Broad by his side

I agree. The advances in medical diagnoses, treatment, injury prevention, load management and investment in the mental side of professional sports has seen players being able to play at a high level for longer.

This is a reality not just across the AFL, but almost all competitive sports globally. Early 30s is not the stigma it once was.
 
I love how this board is constantly trying to retire our champs soon as they hit 30/31

meanwhile
Franklin wants to play on after 2022
Selwood will turn 34 and wants to continue
Goldstein 33 and just coming into his prime
Silk retired early at 38
Mummy might play as a 36 year old
Boak signed a 5 year deal as a 33 year old
Pendles 34
Hawkins - 33 and AA

Whats our rush here guys ?
For all we know after 6 months off and mentally reset and no capt duties cotch might get back to doing cotch things
Edwards could be the next Silk
Jack will kick his usual 45-60 goals as a 3nd fwd
Tarrant will think he is 28 again with Grimes , Balta , Vlastuin , Broad by his side
All those players you mention are way past their best. Look okay against average opposition, but like Cotchin and Riewoldt, on the decline especially against good players. Retiring players is normal. Only the very best keep going into their mid 30's, and if they keep their speed can still be good players.

Did you watch Riewoldt the last two seasons. His trademark leap is gone (but for one great mark), he has slowed down but was never fast and is overpowered by bigger opponents. He is still one of the the smartest player I have seen, so he still gets to good spots, but he will not last much longer especially if he is made to play a key forward role. Needs the pressure off him and play third tall so he is not up against the best defenders.

Reckon Edwards could go on for a bit, he is still quick.
 
I agree. The advances in medical diagnoses, treatment, injury prevention, load management and investment in the mental side of professional sports has seen players being able to play at a high level for longer.

This is a reality not just across the AFL, but almost all competitive sports globally. Early 30s is not the stigma it once was.

Correct, however you do need to be ultra professional and have great support around you (family usually who will also make the sacrifices).
 
Oh I'll be back. Just mentally spent. Did not realise how little I had in the tank till after 3 months working and the nervous gut type stress finally left my shoulders. So enjoying family, and the little things and focusing on that
Enjoy it mate, have yourself a good break and come back refreshed for 2022.
 
Dow needs to play every game in the midfield along with rcd. Draft Callaghan or ward and it’s a nice start

a solid preseason for Dow and RCD in particular along with sustained senior game time will speed up their development

remeber with VFL being cancelled,..they’ve had hardly any real match development in 2 years
 
Better still, I would go after Ben King for RFC ;)

Let's face it, if the bloke is prepared to entertain a move to Essendon or St Kilda, we're at least as well positioned to receive him for the start of the 2023 season. We will be clearing some serious salary cap after 2022 with Sheds, Cotch and Jack most likely gone, and we'll know a hell of a lot more about the likes of Ross, RCD, Martyn, Dow, Cumberland, Miller etc to gauge whether they're worth taking up list places.

In fact, if the bloke we're after for our 2nd pick at #17 this year goes earlier, I'd immediately look for a suitor for #17 to exchange for their 1st round 2022 to help facilitate a Ben King trade in 12 months time.
Hence why i'm keen on Nths future 2nd for CCJ.
Should be around pick 20.
 
did Boak really sign a 5yr deal as a 33 year old

H sure did

in 2011
No he didn't. He's signed till the end of next year, when he will have just turned 34. Signed a 2 year extension in 2020 when he was 31.

Also, Goldstein isn't "just coming into his prime". Holding his form despite being well into his 30's, sure, but he's been one of the premier rucks of the comp for 5+ years, and was probably better a few years ago. Heck, they've even targeted CJ, a largely untried ruck, because they know the end is near and they need a successor!

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I love how this board is constantly trying to retire our champs soon as they hit 30/31

meanwhile
Franklin wants to play on after 2022
Selwood will turn 34 and wants to continue
Goldstein 33 and just coming into his prime
Silk retired early at 38
Mummy might play as a 36 year old
Boak signed a 5 year deal as a 33 year old
Pendles 34
Hawkins - 33 and AA

Whats our rush here guys ?
For all we know after 6 months off and mentally reset and no capt duties cotch might get back to doing cotch things
Edwards could be the next Silk
Jack will kick his usual 45-60 goals as a 3nd fwd
Tarrant will think he is 28 again with Grimes , Balta , Vlastuin , Broad by his side
Franklin has played 47 of 85 games the last 4 years, including missing all of 2020. No wonder he feels like he can go on again.
Selwood is part of the Dads Army brigade at Geelong, who were badly exposed again once the pressure went up in finals
Goldstein is playing well but he has no real challenger at North
Silk was a freak but he was nursed through the last 2 years of his career
Mummy needed to have a break every 2 weeks to get through this season
Boak playing good footy but is surrounded by a number of young guns that take a lot of heat off him
Pendles is 34 and is playing alongside a number of younger players yet to establish themselves so stands out.
Hawkins is another Dads Army member who again failed to fire come finals when the pressure went up.

Cotchin looked cooked all year and battles constant soft tissue issues
Edwards may come good given his issue was the syndesmosis injury and coming back earlier than he should have
Jack struggled big time the second half of the year bar the 6 goals in his 300th didn't really have an major impact.
Tarrant should be an upgrade on Astburys output last year.

My point has been all along if we're all thinking the Cats are cooked given their over 30s brigade starting to struggle then if we're being honest with ourselves we should also be concerned about our over 30s and how quickly the end could come.
 
From the Herald Sun, reads very similar to what we have been discussing over the last month or so.

RICHMOND
INDICATIVE DRAFT PICKS:
7, 16, 26, 28, 40, 44, 80, 98

WHAT DID THEY DO IN THE FIRST AND SECOND ROUNDS OF THE DRAFT LAST YEAR?

The Tigers were not a big player in the 2020 draft, opting to trade their first-round pick to Geelong in exchange for the Cats’ first-round pick this year.

They picked up Brisbane Academy member and 206cm ruckman Samson Ryan with their second-round selection at pick 40 after the Lions chose not to match a bid.

WHO’S IN THE MIX THIS YEAR?

Unlike last year, the Tigers have indicated their intention is to hold onto their two first-round picks.

They will have a plethora of options in a draft which is heavy in quality midfielders at the top of the order.

Players like tough Greater Western Victoria Rebels midfielder Ben Hobbs and silky Sandringham Dragons onballer Finn Callaghan could be in the mix at pick 7.

The Tigers have also picked up a lot of players from the Northern Knights in recent years and would have a close eye on Josh Ward.

Highly-rated Rebels key defender Josh Gibcus is another player who could come into calculations as the Tigers look to life beyond the retired David Astbury and the ageing Dylan Grimes.

He is not a top-end pick but the Tigers also have access to Bendigo Pioneers midfielder-forward Nyawi Moore, who is eligible to join Essendon as a father-son where his dad Nathan Lovett-Murray played 145 games.

Along with the Bombers link, Moore is a member of Richmond’s Next Generation Academy.



 
No he didn't. He's signed till the end of next year, when he will have just turned 34. Signed a 2 year extension in 2020 when he was 31.

Also, Goldstein isn't "just coming into his prime". Holding his form despite being well into his 30's, sure, but he's been one of the premier rucks of the comp for 5+ years, and was probably better a few years ago. Heck, they've even targeted CJ, a largely untried ruck, because they know the end is near and they need a successor!

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CCJ will get torched in the ruck he doesn’t have the mongrel or aggression to compete with the likes of Gawn
 
Trade pick 17 for Saints future 1st

3, 20, 22, 26 + Saints future 1st
Absolutely zero chance of getting the Saints 1st round pick next year, we know they are going to be making a big play for King
We're probably more likely to get their pick this year by giving them draft collateral for next year
 
CCJ will get torched in the ruck he doesn’t have the mongrel or aggression to compete with the likes of Gawn
I see CCJ like English , very much kpp first ruck second . Neither are 60g kpp , will be second fiddles . Tbh reckon CCJ is better mark than English , maybe less mobile but largely similar players
 
Absolutely zero chance of getting the Saints 1st round pick next year, we know they are going to be making a big play for King
We're probably more likely to get their pick this year by giving them draft collateral for next year
Would do pick 9 for our future first. Just make sure we make finals next year and it’s a win.
 
Absolutely zero chance of getting the Saints 1st round pick next year, we know they are going to be making a big play for King
We're probably more likely to get their pick this year by giving them draft collateral for next year
Are they though? Or is it just BF circle jerking?
 
Yep. Tarrant is a downgrade on 2020 Astbury.

Mansell/Stack are a downgrade on 2020 Houli

The other consideration is that almost every player that played in the 2020 GF except for Baker & Bolton has seemingly gone backwards. Most due to age and constant injury, others due to poor form or becoming stagnant from playing one dimensional roles for 5 years straight. No matter how you look at it, its incredibly difficult to see the 2022 Richmond being better than the 2020 Tigers.

I’ll give u a few reasons for optimism compared to 2020:

Baker (keeps improving)
Bolton (could be elite)
Balta (could be best KPD in the league)
Soldo
Graham (2022 Graham could be close to elite)
Stack (has talent to be a top-liner)
Rioli off half-back (he was pretty useless up forward in 2020)
RCD, Ross and Dow (at least one can become more than just a fill in)
Tarrant (if he’s fully fit he’s an all-Australian quality KPD)

Then add some high quality draftees… Walah !



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The reality of it is we aren't going all out for a flag next season than we may as well trade out Martin whilst he still has currency and start our rebuild with kick start.

GWS with picks 2 and 13 is a good start and could be desparate enough.

If we are pushing for one last tilt than young kids alone won't be enough for next season. I'm warming to Mitchell and think we can offer a decent pick where Hawthorn pays some of his salary as well.

Rekon pick 15 for Mitchell gets it done.
I would then trade pick 7 and Next year's 1st to GC for Pick 3 and 19.

With some pick swapping with Bulldogs and a trade with CJ to North we get Tom Mitchell, Tarrant and still take picks 3,17,19 and 20 to the draft.
Now that would be an absolute team and culture killer. Imagine trading out possibly the best player in the history of your team, one of the best players of all the time for a few draft picks.

The logic that we have to go all in on winning or all in on rebuilding makes no sense. There is a middle ground. First of all, going all in on rebuild and trading out our club legends and leaders will hurt the culture immensely and leave the young players without the leadership they need.

What the club seems to be doing is the right call. Pick up guys like Tarrant for nothing to fix holes right now and then going heavy on the draft. Considering our draft hand, I would expect at least 1 or 2 of the young guys we pick up will have an immediate impact in our team. Its been mentioned before, but look at Port 2018 they had picks 5, 12 and 18. Those guys played 22, 19 and 20 games in their first year.
We saw it for us in 2017 too with guys like Rioli, Castagna and Butler. Bringing in young players can completely rejuvenate the team which we clearly need.

We won a flag 11 months ago. That doesn't just get lost. We havn't just lost that talent
We've got our first long off-season in half a decade and missing finals completely willl bring some hunger back.
We're going to inject our best draft hand for like what? More than a decade?
We've brought in Bolton who has shown to be a really good offensive coach so maybe we will finally look good kicking inside 50.
We've got time to change up our game plan to suite the new rules.
Guys like Stack and Rioli seem to have found their spots and looked great off half back.
We've got Tarrant who could very well be and upgrade on Astbury
If the Dimma divorce effected us then we've now had time to move on from it.
We will be back to playing in front of the large crowds we feed off.
We are no longer the hunted. We're back to our favorite spot of being the hunter.


We just need some luck with injuries, a couple draft picks to have instant impact and also some of the guys like RCD to take a bit of step to really improve those 16-22 spots and give us some good depth too.
 
Jarrod Cameron has just requested a trade out of West Coast.

Would be a good selection for us with added pace and smarts around our forwardline.
 
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