List Mgmt. 2015 Draft, Trades and Retirements Thread Pt 1

[Syd]

$600k for a guy who misses as many games as he plays.
Great when he is on the field but he has missed a lot of footy as well.

800K for Tippett and he misses just as much

Touche'

However, IF the club had any inkling that Franklin would become available, I doubt that Tippett would have been recruited and Sam Reid would have been forced to continue to develop up forward as another tall target.

Tippett money would have gone into a KPD instead.

Just my opinion but

 

[swansfan51]

I will post full stats on this later but for now just trust me. Good key forwards are the absolute hardest players to get, and they should have the highest valuation on your list. They are either first round picks or they are shenanigans like father/son and prelisted.

By contrast, key defenders are some of the easiest players to get at a good level. Rookie draft picks, mature age draftees and shitty ND picks from 50+ routinely become good AFL key defenders. It happens incredibly rarely with key forwards.

The lowest value players on the list are small defenders like Nick Smith. Pigeonholed small forwards also have low value (ones who can be midfielders are significantly more valuable).

What does this mean for us?

1) Kurt Tippett despite being overpaid and not perfect absolutely should not be traded. We can't replace him as a key forward (as a ruck we easily can)
2) Guys like McLaren etc will never, ever become gun key forwards. Not happening. They should be developed as defenders.
3) Trading big currency for a key defender is not ideal. Some of them are high draft picks but an equal number can be found in the 3rd round, 4th round or rookie draft if you are good enough.

 

[tizzay7]

If jetta leaves and we get a few draft picks ideally do we replace him with a like for like type or do we go hard at another kpd or ruck?

Matt Buntine looks to a be a good prospect and uncontracted at the end of the year. Any interest in him?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Also makes other teams tradable commodities void in a trade deal if they were worth good money .
The points system is also going to screw us as WCE about to hit a glut of father sons .

It's stupid. Geelong built a dynasty on Father Sons. Now every club after is prevented from the same joy.

Especially interstate clubs trying to build their own traditions. F/S and Academy players have serious value and should have simply been left alone.

 

[Swansujelly]

If jetta leaves and we get a few draft picks ideally do we replace him with a like for like type or do we go hard at another kpd or ruck?

Matt Buntine looks to a be a good prospect and uncontracted at the end of the year. Any interest in him?

Hiscox would be an obvious replacement speed wise..footskills not so much. All our picks would be spent on Mills and dunkley(should he nominate). Buntine would command more than the leagues average. We really have to forget about trading anyone in and cross everything that some in the 2's come on and Mills and Dunkley are worth the investment...until next offseason whne the trade exclusions are gone.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Hiscox would be an obvious replacement speed wise..footskills not so much. All our picks would be spent on Mills and dunkley(should he nominate). Buntine would command more than the leagues average. We really have to forget about trading anyone in and cross everything that some in the 2's come on and Mills and Dunkley are worth the investment...until next offseason whne the trade exclusions are gone.

Hiscox was a speculation pick aside from his elite endurance there is nothing to suggest he will make it as a AFL player.

 

[tizzay7]

Hiscox would be an obvious replacement speed wise..footskills not so much. All our picks would be spent on Mills and dunkley(should he nominate). Buntine would command more than the leagues average. We really have to forget about trading anyone in and cross everything that some in the 2's come on and Mills and Dunkley are worth the investment...until next offseason whne the trade exclusions are gone.

Sucks though doesn't it. Biased VFL heads hate us for doing what we do best. We adapted to survive within rules but they couldnt have it and had to knock us down a peg.

Out of curiosity though would buntine really be worth more than 340000?

 

[Swansujelly]

Sucks though doesn't it. Biased VFL heads hate us for doing what we do best. We adapted to survive within rules but they couldnt have it and had to knock us down a peg.

Out of curiosity though would buntine really be worth more than 340000?

on an open market, would be a close thing. former top 5 pick and who knows what gws are paying him. Probably not the player we need anyway. 189cm defender.

 

[tizzay7]

on an open market, would be a close thing. former top 5 pick and who knows what gws are paying him. Probably not the player we need anyway. 189cm defender.

I see what you mean but he does read the play well and is a good user of the footy. Could possibly play as that outside player delivering to the forwards.

One could hope but gws would most probably bend us over on the trade table.

 

[Swansujelly]

I see what you mean but he does read the play well and is a good user of the footy. Could possibly play as that outside player delivering to the forwards.

One could hope but gws would most probably bend us over on the trade table.

maybe. we gave them Mummy for a song, but then they overpaid for Lamb. We don't have the currency for any trades this year anyway with the new draft rules. By all reports Marsh is playing well in the 2's but can't get a run..similar players, but Marsh obviously not so highly rated. Actually, Laidler is probably closer to Buntine role wise, only Buntine younger and faster.

 

[Skeparovic]

I will post full stats on this later but for now just trust me. Good key forwards are the absolute hardest players to get, and they should have the highest valuation on your list. They are either first round picks or they are shenanigans like father/son and prelisted.

By contrast, key defenders are some of the easiest players to get at a good level. Rookie draft picks, mature age draftees and shitty ND picks from 50+ routinely become good AFL key defenders. It happens incredibly rarely with key forwards.

The lowest value players on the list are small defenders like Nick Smith. Pigeonholed small forwards also have low value (ones who can be midfielders are significantly more valuable).

What does this mean for us?

1) Kurt Tippett despite being overpaid and not perfect absolutely should not be traded. We can't replace him as a key forward (as a ruck we easily can)
2) Guys like McLaren etc will never, ever become gun key forwards. Not happening. They should be developed as defenders.
3) Trading big currency for a key defender is not ideal. Some of them are high draft picks but an equal number can be found in the 3rd round, 4th round or rookie draft if you are good enough.

I'd add a number 4 point.
Swans need to make salary cap room to actually draft their full quota of players to primary list and rookie list to develop several KPD rather than pay overs for one.

 

[Freomaniac]

What if Freo offer their first round pick to us?

You'd better hope jetta wants to go to freo then ! Freo already have 4 jetta type players in hill , Pearce crozier and Walters as quick flankers forward of centre . If they want to use their first on jetta instead of a much needed key forward they are stupid !

Considering whar freo has picked up in the 1st round from 2009-2012, who have all been unlucky or injury prone guys... 1st round pick for Jetta going to freo isn't bad. North are trying to bend freo over demanding a 1st round pick and Crozier/Sheridan for Aaron Black.

 

[Syd]

I'd add a number 4 point.
Swans need to make salary cap room to actually draft their full quota of players to primary list and rookie list to develop several KPD rather than pay overs for one.

Can't be understated

Can't develop players if you can't afford to have them

 

[Lakeside Swan]

If Jetta did leave, I suspect the club would try to get a first round pick for him to use with our first rounder to get Mills. Two low first round picks would be enough to get Mills in the top 4 or 5 with barely any sacrifice of other picks.

I think they will do that but I don't agree with it. Why would we use an additional late first round pick to get Mills and Dunkley when we can pay for them with our lower draft picks? This is also a weak draft below the first 20-30 don't forget. We should be trying to get a player along with the deal.

 

[S120]

I think they will do that but I don't agree with it. Why would we use an additional late first round pick to get Mills and Dunkley when we can pay for them with our lower draft picks? This is also a weak draft below the first 20-30 don't forget. We should be trying to get a player along with the deal.

I take talk like "this is a weak draft" with many grains of salt. The people who judge 18 year old players and the relative depth of a draft in total aren't foolproof, there will be good players available all over just like every other draft in history. You just have to find them. And just because they think the top 20-30 are strong and the rest are weak doesn't mean that there won't be anyone capable of being a good player beyond 30. You just have to find them. There will be gems in the rookie draft. You just have to find them.

And paying for them with lower picks would almost certainly include going into deficit next year, which under the right circumstances I don't have a passionate distaste for, but given this is the first year of this system being in play, I doubt the club will push their luck too much with this. There's no precedent for this and for how badly it could affect the club's drafting. I imagine they'll attempt to play it safe as much as possible this year in terms of sacrificing too much of next year's draft picks to claim Mills and Dunkley. If Jetta wants to leave, it makes too much sense to trade him for something that will enable us to get them.

 

[Cadsky]

I take talk like "this is a weak draft" with many grains of salt. The people who judge 18 year old players and the relative depth of a draft in total aren't foolproof, there will be good players available all over just like every other draft in history. You just have to find them. And just because they think the top 20-30 are strong and the rest are weak doesn't mean that there won't be anyone capable of being a good player beyond 30. You just have to find them. There will be gems in the rookie draft. You just have to find them.

Luke Parker, Adam Goodes, Michael O'laughlin. They can and will be found

 

[bedford]

The next father son will be Jesse Maxfield, getting better all the time, still only 16

 

[Ticky009]

I'm not usually sentimental when it comes to F/S. But young Maxfield is one kid I would like to get and one day go on to a premiership. Feel like we owe the family one for all that Stewie has done for us.

 

[bedford]

He's a good kid plays at my club when not in TAC

 

[RUNVS]

He's a good kid plays at my club when not in TAC

Can you tell us more about him in terms of what he is like as a player?

 

[bedford]

Midfielder about 181 and still growing, great skills. His father thinks he just ok, but he will be good

 

[brad cooper]

Midfielder about 181 and still growing, great skills. His father thinks he just ok, but he will be good

Left footer?

 

[HPKS]

Does he have a bit pace like His father?

 

[Lakeside Swan]

More importantly, does he have skills and can he hit a target?

 

[Lakeside Swan]

Plough gave his updated top 20 draft selections today. He has Mills back at no.3 and Dunkley wasn't even in the top 20.