List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[bulletproof]

I would happily pay a premium for Frawley, as Cat Empire said you will not attract a free agent without paying slightly over their real worth. The advantage is they don't cost a draft pick, so it all has to be weighed up.

Given the age of the backline, he is just the type we need.

If we only pay everyone their true market value at the time, you are basically saying we are not playing in the free agent space. Frawley's value is at least low at the moment, versus his stock price highs of an All Australian year.

He would be a fine pick up.

 

[catempire]

So in other words, it doesn't matter what they want, just pay it. Doesn't matter what the pay structure of the club is, just pay it. You might shred the morale of the playing group, but hey, just pay it.

He better be good. Real good.

Nope. Not even remotely close to what I said.

 

[vinum coupe]

If they go for frawley there is going to be some wasted money hanging around in the VFL next year.
Unless Lonergan retires a year early.

Backline of Lonergan, Taylor, Rivers, Frawley, Mackie.
It's not going to happen.

 

[Teriyakicat]

All part of the negotiating process I guess. Although 7 years (with less money) or $800K (with a shorter contract tenor) are so far out of the money it is laughable. Does anyone know who his agent his? Needs a dose of the smelling salts to wake up to reality...

His manager is Alex McDonald
I had a look, thinking it might've been Pickering- judging by the deal he's looking for and after Pickering's success with the Buddy deal.

 

[catempire]

If they go for frawley there is going to be some wasted money hanging around in the VFL next year.
Unless Lonergan retires a year early.

Backline of Lonergan, Taylor, Rivers, Frawley, Mackie.
It's not going to happen.

Yep, but that might be one of the costs of landing a player of his calibre. If we wait a year until there are one or two backline retirements it's unlikely there'll be a KPD free agent as good as Frawley.

 

[vinum coupe]

I agree. But it also pushes back the development of any other tall backs.

Let's say we get him.
Rivers is in the reserves.
A tall in the AFL gets injured.

It's not like they are going to pick Brown, Hamling, Kolo ahead of Rivers.

 

[thejester]

I agree. But it also pushes back the development of any other tall backs.

Let's say we get him.
Rivers is in the reserves.

I think if Frawley comes here Rivers won't be renewed (despite his form this season). Think you're right though, signing Frawley is not a huge vote of confidence in Hamling at minimum.

 

[Rankin_1925]

His manager is Alex McDonald
I had a look, thinking it might've been Pickering- judging by the deal he's looking for and after Pickering's success with the Buddy deal.

Ah, nice detective work. Quick squiz at Caro's work from a couple of years back noted that McDonald took Frawley with him when he had a bust up with Stride/Glenn Archer.

 

[catempire]

I agree. But it also pushes back the development of any other tall backs.

Let's say we get him.
Rivers is in the reserves.
A tall in the AFL gets injured.

It's not like they are going to pick Brown, Hamling, Kolo ahead of Rivers.

Yep, it's a problem. I would have liked to have seen them blooding those guys this year and even if we land Frawley they absolutely must start blooding them next year.

 

[Partridge]

Yep, it's a problem. I would have liked to have seen them blooding those guys this year and even if we land Frawley they absolutely must start blooding them next year.

I'm not expecting them to. They've had plenty of chances to against not exactly devastating opposition and haven't done it. They'll only do it when they're absolutely forced.

 

[vinum coupe]

It's the one area of the ground where they really haven't put in any effort to develop it.

They've played young forwards. Given a lot of responsibility to young mids.
But they've really done nothing down back at all

They played Guthrie there last year, gave Brown a couple of games, and Bews a couple this year.
Smedts has had a couple, Hunt a few, Blicavs a game or 2.
That's about it.

 

[thejester]

They've been pretty big on the whole 'we don't give games to players, they have to be earned'. Obviously we feel like there have been exceptions to that, as with Smedts this year, but could be they're not putting guys in the back line because they feel they're not doing what's required. Thurlow's comments a few weeks ago would seem to substantiate that.

 

[Partridge]

They've been pretty big on the whole 'we don't give games to players, they have to be earned'. Obviously we feel like there have been exceptions to that, as with Smedts this year, but could be they're not putting guys in the back line because they feel they're not doing what's required. Thurlow's comments a few weeks ago would seem to substantiate that.

But we know that's bullshit. When they want to you don't have to earn games at all.

 

[catempire]

It's the one area of the ground where they really haven't put in any effort to develop it.

They've played young forwards. Given a lot of responsibility to young mids.
But they've really done nothing down back at all

They played Guthrie there last year, gave Brown a couple of games, and Bews a couple this year.
Smedts has had a couple, Hunt a few, Blicavs a game or 2.
That's about it.

I can see three possible explanations:

1. They think the old blokes have more time left in them than we seem to think.
2. They think the young blokes aren't ready and will persist with them for at least another year in the VFL thereby buying more time until their eventual debuts.
3. Incompetence (or The Partridge Hypothesis).

 

[Partridge]

I can see three possible explanations:

1. They think the old blokes have more time left in them than we seem to think.
2. They think the young blokes aren't ready and will persist with them for at least another year in the VFL thereby buying more time until their eventual debuts.
3. Incompetence (or The Partridge Hypothesis).

Evidence?

 

[catempire]

Evidence?

I don't need evidence to stir you up!

 

[Pivo]

Apparently he has dropped his asking price but extended the length of it.
If he gets that deal (7 years) someone is crazy.

He isn't ablett.

I get why he is doing it and, since he has suitors, he'd be crazy not to try it on.

I'll work on the assumption Geelong isn't that foolhardy (if Hawthorn blink, good luck to 'em).

 

[The rabbi]

I think if Frawley comes here Rivers won't be renewed (despite his form this season). Think you're right though, signing Frawley is not a huge vote of confidence in Hamling at minimum.

Any confidence in Hamling as a key position player is sorely misdirected.
The only way that Hamling will be big enough to play KPD/F is if Geelong lease him out to do a preseason with Essendon. People need to start looking at Hamling as a future replacement for someone like Andrew Mackie rather than Tom Lonergan.

 

[Sttew]

Jack Ziebel anyone? North seem to have an over abundance of similar type midfielders.

On the coaching front, anyone for Lenny Hayes as midfield coach?

 

[FredLeDeux]

I can see three possible explanations:

1. They think the old blokes have more time left in them than we seem to think.
2. They think the young blokes aren't ready and will persist with them for at least another year in the VFL thereby buying more time until their eventual debuts.
3. Incompetence (or The Partridge Hypothesis).

I can think of another; after a good long effort put into Hamling and Brown, they don't think either are going to make it as KPDs, full stop.
And since they need (possibly - Lonergan) one new one for next year and (definitely - Lonergan & Rivers) two for the following year' it's best to grab a proven one while he's available.

 

[catempire]

I can think of another; after a good long effort put into Hamling and Brown, they don't think either are going to make it as KPDs, full stop.
And since they need (possibly - Lonergan) one new one for next year and (definitely - Lonergan & Rivers) two for the following year' it's best to grab a proven one while he's available.

Yep, agree although I find it curious not to at least try Hamling in the ones at some point even if they think he's not going to make it (nothing to lose).

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yep, agree although I find it curious not to at least try Hamling in the ones at some point even if they think he's not going to make it (nothing to lose).

I'm not saying he's gone, rather that the MC may simply think he's not going to be KPD. The rabbi above may have the right of it.

 

[catempire]

I'm not saying he's gone, rather that the MC may simply think he's not going to be KPD. The rabbi above may have the right of it.

I've had this out with The rabbi before: I can't see any basis for the claim he's more like Mackie than Lonergan. If the MC sees things that way they are oddly playing him at fullback each week on gorilla full forwards.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I've had this out with The rabbi before: I can't see any basis for the claim he's more like Mackie than Lonergan. If the MC sees things that way they are oddly playing him at fullback each week on gorilla full forwards.

I haven't seen enough of him, I was suggesting a possible rationale for our (alleged) interest in Frawley, namely that the MC don't think he's going to make a KPD.
If they do think he'll make it, and they're still confident about Kolo, the interest becomes more puzzling.
Unless they think both Lonergan and Rivers are gone at the end of this year.

 

[Lana]

I haven't seen enough of him, I was suggesting a possible rationale for our (alleged) interest in Frawley, namely that the MC don't think he's going to make a KPD.
If they do think he'll make it, and they're still confident about Kolo, the interest becomes more puzzling.
Unless they think both Lonergan and Rivers are gone at the end of this year.

Maybe they don't think that Hamling is ready yet for a KPD role at AFL level next year but will be ready when we need him in 2016(post Lonergan and Rivers). It's a big ask to expect that Kolo will be ready for a KPD role in two years when he is 21.