Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion - Part 2

[passmark]

Yarran did it in a quarter


...pretty sure he was playing off half back at this point?

You have no idea how awesome that night was for Blues people in WA.

WCE fans left dumbfounded. Exciting night!!

 

[Blue__Balls]

Safe to say the 2017 culls look like this at the moment:

Will be shopped: Kreuzer, Thomas, Wright, Buckley, Armfield

Gone: Jones, Jaksch, White, Graham, Lamb, Casboult

Maybe: Gorringe, Phillips, JGM, Rowe, Simpson, Gallucci

EDIT: left out some names last night

Who's rucking - Korchek?

 

[Jimmae]

Who's rucking - Korchek?

I've mentioned in another post around here that we'll likely pick one of Kreuzer/Phillips, one of Gorringe/Casboult, then decide how to proceed with our off-season acquisitions based on Korcheck's status.

If someone comes along and gets us a first round or end of first round pick for Kreuzer, I think we'd offload him. Less than that, and we'd probably push Phillips out the door if things stay on current trend.

With Gorringe and Casboult, it's more of a question of senior performance, unless someone comes along with an offer.

 

[agro]

You have no idea how awesome that night was for Blues people in WA.

WCE fans left dumbfounded. Exciting night!!

Brings back many happy memories.

Don't forget Armfield's shepherding effort in that second goal, he came out of nowhere taking metres off the West Coast Player and Yarran himself to lay that shepherd.

Garlett's efforts were good too, but Armfield is still with us, hopefully we'll see Armfield shepherd a few for Seton and Pickett this year.

 

[F_therest]

I've mentioned in another post around here that we'll likely pick one of Kreuzer/Phillips, one of Gorringe/Casboult, then decide how to proceed with our off-season acquisitions based on Korcheck's status.

If someone comes along and gets us a first round or end of first round pick for Kreuzer, I think we'd offload him. Less than that, and we'd probably push Phillips out the door if things stay on current trend.

With Gorringe and Casboult, it's more of a question of senior performance, unless someone comes along with an offer.

Personally i think Kreuzer & Phillips both stay (they are currently our #1 and #2 ruckmen) and we move on Casboult & Gorringe.

 

[Jimmae]

Personally i think Kreuzer & Phillips both stay (they are currently our #1 and #2 ruckmen) and we move on Casboult & Gorringe.

I'd be horrified if Kreuzer and Phillips were our top-2 ruck prospects for 2018-2020. I prefer Kreuzer, but he needs genuine support, and that support needs to be able to play another role in the team.

 

[F_therest]

I'd be horrified if Kreuzer and Phillips were our top-2 ruck prospects for 2018-2020. I prefer Kreuzer, but he needs genuine support, and that support needs to be able to play another role in the team.

Oh I was just referring to next year.

Hoping Phillips kicks on I think there's real potential there.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'd be horrified if Kreuzer and Phillips were our top-2 ruck prospects for 2018-2020. I prefer Kreuzer, but he needs genuine support, and that support needs to be able to play another role in the team.

What do you think is the best way for us to address it, though?

Do we trust in Korchek to develop into a competent AFL ruckman?
If so, presumably Phillips and Kreuzer simply hold a senior spot til he develops.
If not, do we look to draft another rookie ruckman next year?
If so, we still need Phillips and Kreuzer while that ruckman develops.
If we don't go a young ruck to develop, do we try and recruit an established ruckman from another team?
If so, do we target a 22-26 year old next year with the hope of getting 5-10 good years of service?
Or do we wait til we feel we can genuinely contend, then try and grab a 26-28 year old at the top of his game?

 

[Jimmae]

What do you think is the best way for us to address it, though?

Do we trust in Korchek to develop into a competent AFL ruckman?
If so, presumably Phillips and Kreuzer simply hold a senior spot til he develops.
If not, do we look to draft another rookie ruckman next year?
If so, we still need Phillips and Kreuzer while that ruckman develops.
If we don't go a young ruck to develop, do we try and recruit an established ruckman from another team?
If so, do we target a 22-26 year old next year with the hope of getting 5-10 good years of service?
Or do we wait til we feel we can genuinely contend, then try and grab a 26-28 year old at the top of his game?

As I said above, we re-assess based on the progress of Korcheck, Kreuzer, Gorringe and Phillips at the end of the year. If 3 of them are on the up and up, we get a kid, otherwise we target a senior guy.

I look at the investment 9 clubs made this year in the form of taking young rucks and wonder why we wouldn't bother.

 

[RudyBlue]

We are only halfway there at present.

And when the job's done...

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Guys I'm a bit lost.

So many Carlton supporters want to experiment with Weitering up forward and I don't understand why.

He have potentially the greatest CHB of all time in the making, why ruin that.

We tried the same with Hendo and it didn't work out. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Up until his TAC cup year was a jack of all trades, playing mid, back and forward, and excelling at all.
Story has it that discussions with his coach/mentor led them to settle on one position to maximise his
draft credentials.

Noone will argue his defensive credentials, however has an overwhelming desire to zone off as opposed
to competing one on one. To suggest he is a defender who will be compromised by moving up the field
is nonsense (refer one M. Pavlich). We are stacked with young key defenders. Those thinking Rowe will
get the boot and JW, CM, LW and/or HM are going to be our defensive unit are kidding.

Moving Jacob (or Caleb) forward actually fast tracks the development of multiple players, and he may just
be a champion key forward. We are light on quality KPF, makes perfect sense to test his creds.

Not an experiment if he's actually a gun forward.

There are arguments to be made for and against.
Ultimately, I just want a settled back 6.
Why would people be kidding to imagine a handful of defenders recruited by the club will be played as defenders? JW is the only one with any real exposed form in the forward line, even then the bulk of his work has been in the back half.
In any event, regardless of perspectives on the matter it's a much nicer position to be in to actually have options.

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

I'm never against a back playing forward and vice versa early in their career. I actually think it helps predict movements of your opposition etc. And if JW goes and kicks 60goals next year and we play in a prelim, well, he might need to stay there...

The only time Jacob played forward, he kicked 2 goals in a half.

Extrapolating that to 88 quarters, that's near Coleman Medal territory.

Weitering a defender???

That's the thing isn't it
That game stood out

Be good to see a larger sample of games as a forward

Yeah i'd be surprised to ever see him take a 'speccy'...a big leap is pretty important as opposition defenders will work him out and play in front knowing he can't jump over them like a Danniher/Moore.

I dont think he's particularly quick off the mark either.

His success as a defender is primarily his smarts...being able to position himself well for an intercept and knowing when to work off his man...very different skill set to playing forward and having someone follow you everywhere.

In saying that, i don't mind trialing him as a forward this year but if it doesn't work out then leave him as an A grade defender.

I'm struggling to see a scenario for that happening now if I'm serious about developing a side for the following reasons:

• In the last 12 months we've traded/drafted 13 forwards including Kerr, Pickett, Polson, Smedts, SOSOS, McKay, Lamb, Sumner, Curnow, Gorringe, Wright, Gallucci & Le Bois.
• We've also got the following forwards on our list; Buckley, Boekhorst, Jones, Jaksch, Armfield & Casboult, which brings the total to 19.
• Fisher, SPS, Palmer, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Kerridge, Cuningham, Graham & Thomas are all mids who rotate through the forward line bringing the total to 29.
• The Grand Total comes to 31 when you add that Kreuzer & Phillips also rest in a forward pocket.
• It's about time some of the forwards stood up and earned their pay.
• If we want to get technical 2 of those of Rookies so that brings the total back to 29.
• In the last 12 months we've drafted/traded 7 defenders including Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Macreadie, Williamson, COSOS & JGM.
• Add in existing defenders Rowe, Simpson, Docherty, Byrne, Sheehan & White, which brings our total to 13.
• Once again if we get technical Sheehan & COSOS are Rookies and given Byrne is out for the pretty much the entire season with an ACL that total dwindles to a paltry 10.

For all that people moan and groan about the recruiting of defenders we're running a skeleton crew down there and that's with a couple in the closet. Surely you'd think one would be able to cobble together a front 6 out of the other 31 players without raiding a wafer-thin defence.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

As I said above, we re-assess based on the progress of Korcheck, Kreuzer, Gorringe and Phillips at the end of the year. If 3 of them are on the up and up, we get a kid, otherwise we target a senior guy.

I look at the investment 9 clubs made this year in the form of taking young rucks and wonder why we wouldn't bother.

I am with you on this Jimmae. Thought a ruckman was a priority. Not sure if we want to expose McKay to the ruck. We are in real trouble if both Kreuzer and Phillips are out.

 

[Jimmae]

I am with you on this Jimmae. Thought a ruckman was a priority. Not sure if we want to expose McKay to the ruck. We are in real trouble if both Kreuzer and Phillips are out.

I reckon in that scenario we'll elevated Korcheck if we can, and throw Casboult and Gorringe into the team.

Gorringe will go third man up for those two (assuming no rule change).

 

[ShanDog]

I'm struggling to see a scenario for that happening now if I'm serious about developing a side for the following reasons:

• In the last 12 months we've traded/drafted 13 forwards including Kerr, Pickett, Polson, Smedts, SOSOS, McKay, Lamb, Sumner, Curnow, Gorringe, Wright, Gallucci & Le Bois.
• We've also got the following forwards on our list; Buckley, Boekhorst, Jones, Jaksch, Armfield & Casboult, which brings the total to 19.
• Fisher, SPS, Palmer, Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps, Kerridge, Cuningham, Graham & Thomas are all mids who rotate through the forward line bringing the total to 29.
• The Grand Total comes to 31 when you add that Kreuzer & Phillips also rest in a forward pocket.
• It's about time some of the forwards stood up and earned their pay.
• If we want to get technical 2 of those of Rookies so that brings the total back to 29.
• In the last 12 months we've drafted/traded 7 defenders including Weitering, Marchbank, Plowman, Macreadie, Williamson, COSOS & JGM.
• Add in existing defenders Rowe, Simpson, Docherty, Byrne, Sheehan & White, which brings our total to 13.
• Once again if we get technical Sheehan & COSOS are Rookies and given Byrne is out for the pretty much the entire season with an ACL that total dwindles to a paltry 10.

For all that people moan and groan about the recruiting of defenders we're running a skeleton crew down there and that's with a couple in the closet. Surely you'd think one would be able to cobble together a front 6 out of the other 31 players without raiding a wafer-thin defence.

Key forward and key defenders is a different story. In modern footy, everyone who isn't named in the back six is a goalkicker, and even then, we have half backs who push up the ground and score sometimes.

For mine, the real equation is:

Key Position Players: Weitering, Plowman, Kerr, Macreadie, Marchbank, McKay, Jones, Rowe, Jaksch, C. Curnow, Casboult.

Thats 11 guys of which you need 3 for the backline and 3 for the forward line. Five of them can genuinely play at either end. There's actually a fair bit of choice.

 

[rp84]

I am with you on this Jimmae. Thought a ruckman was a priority. Not sure if we want to expose McKay to the ruck. We are in real trouble if both Kreuzer and Phillips are out.

Rowe and casboult would compete and probably do more around the ground than the other 2.

 

[Pafloyul]

And when the job's done...

No... not the 'special' edition!

 

[zeeCFC]

If development goes well our end of year best 22 could be:

Plowman, Rowe, Weitering
Docherty, Marchbank, Simpson
Cuningham, Murphy, Petrevski-Seton
Pickett, McKay, Sumner
Casboult, Curnow, Silvagni
Kreuzer, Cripps, Gibbs
Curnow, Byrne, Wright, Boekhorst

Prefer Cas relief rucking if he keeps getting a game and in time Weiters takes a KPD spot and Rowe makes way for more runners.

White, Silvagni, Sheehan, Smedts depth down back

Graham, Kerridge, Palmer, Thomas senior bodies in the midfield with Fisher and Polson pushing.

Forward depth is weak but Gorringe, Jones and Jaksch will probably get games while Armfield, Lamb, Gallucci and Buckley are good contributors.

I'm probably most looking forward to seeing Weitering with more support in the third tall role controlling everything. While McKay, Curnow and SOS may not kick many goals I'll enjoy watching them try.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

If development goes well our end of year best 22 could be:

Plowman, Rowe, Weitering
Docherty, Marchbank, Simpson
Cuningham, Murphy, Petrevski-Seton
Pickett, McKay, Sumner
Casboult, Curnow, Silvagni
Kreuzer, Cripps, Gibbs
Curnow, Byrne, Wright, Boekhorst

Prefer Cas relief rucking if he keeps getting a game and in time Weiters takes a KPD spot and Rowe makes way for more runners.

White, Silvagni, Sheehan, Smedts depth down back

Graham, Kerridge, Palmer, Thomas senior bodies in the midfield with Fisher and Polson pushing.

Forward depth is weak but Gorringe, Jones and Jaksch will probably get games while Armfield, Lamb, Gallucci and Buckley are good contributors.

I'm probably most looking forward to seeing Weitering with more support in the third tall role controlling everything. While McKay, Curnow and SOS may not kick many goals I'll enjoy watching them try.

Like your work Zee. I don't rate Boekhorst in the best 22. I would swap McKay to FF and Casboult to CHF.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I've mentioned in another post around here that we'll likely pick one of Kreuzer/Phillips, one of Gorringe/Casboult, then decide how to proceed with our off-season acquisitions based on Korcheck's status.

If someone comes along and gets us a first round or end of first round pick for Kreuzer, I think we'd offload him. Less than that, and we'd probably push Phillips out the door if things stay on current trend.

With Gorringe and Casboult, it's more of a question of senior performance, unless someone comes along with an offer.

No one is giving us a 1st round pick for Kruezar next year, the time to cash in on him has passed. We just need to now get the most of him and hope he can live up to 50% of his potential.

 

[Big Sim is Back]

No one is giving us a 1st round pick for Kruezar next year, the time to cash in on him has passed. We just need to now get the most of him and hope he can live up to 50% of his potential.

Free Agent. Best we could hope is to get any suitor to do a dodgy deal with his contract like the Hawks did with Vickery and nab a second rounder.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Guys I'm a bit lost.

So many Carlton supporters want to experiment with Weitering up forward and I don't understand why.

He have potentially the greatest CHB of all time in the making, why ruin that.

We tried the same with Hendo and it didn't work out. Why fix something that isn't broken?

Because some people have no faith in Harry

 

[FlowersByIrene]

If development goes well our end of year best 22 could be:

Plowman, Rowe, Weitering
Docherty, Marchbank, Simpson
Cuningham, Murphy, Petrevski-Seton
Pickett, McKay, Sumner
Casboult, Curnow, Silvagni
Kreuzer, Cripps, Gibbs
Curnow, Byrne, Wright, Boekhorst

Prefer Cas relief rucking if he keeps getting a game and in time Weiters takes a KPD spot and Rowe makes way for more runners.

White, Silvagni, Sheehan, Smedts depth down back

Graham, Kerridge, Palmer, Thomas senior bodies in the midfield with Fisher and Polson pushing.

Forward depth is weak but Gorringe, Jones and Jaksch will probably get games while Armfield, Lamb, Gallucci and Buckley are good contributors.

I'm probably most looking forward to seeing Weitering with more support in the third tall role controlling everything. While McKay, Curnow and SOS may not kick many goals I'll enjoy watching them try.

Bar Byrne that should be our Round 1 team really haha

 

[F_therest]

Interesting read, not too far off my view things so here it is, 'warts & all' and as expected always controversial too :

SACKED
Buckley (on a one year contract)
Casboult (on a one year contract)
(R) Galluci (second-time around on the rookie list)
Graham (on a one year contract)
Jaksch (contract runs out)
Jones (contract runs out)
Lamb (contract runs out)
Rowe (contract runs out)
(R) Sheehan (gazillionth time around on the rookie list)
Thomas (contract runs out)
White (contract runs out)


CRACKED
Armfield (might be kept longer in a mentoring role)
Boekhorst (time to piss or get off the pot)
Gibbs (could he be traded this time ??)
(R) Glass-McCasker (kick on son, we need you to make it)
Gorringe (he's been around the AFL long enough, delivery time is now)
(R) LeBois (hopefully he can give us something)
(R) Korchek (will be a great story if he succeeds)
Kreuzer (could he be traded ??)
Marchbank (no free rides, has to prove himself at Carlton)
Palmer (no free rides, has to prove himself at Carlton)
Pickett (no free rides, has to prove himself at Carlton)
(R) A. Silvagni (clearly a short-term option only)
Smedts (no free rides, has to prove himself at Carlton)


BACKED
Byrne (upgrade from rookie list)
C.Curnow
Cripps
Cuningham
Docherty
E. Curnow
Fisher
Kerr
Kerridge (may be a short-term option)
MacCreadie
McKay
Murphy
Petrevski-Seton
Phillips
Plowman
Polson
Silvagni
Simpson (may only be short-term due to retirement)
Sumner
Weitering
Williamson
Wright (short-term)

With 11 names on the Sacked List, there is still scope for another massive turnover of players at the end of 2017. At this stage, it's hard to mount a case for any of them being retained, however, it's not out of the question for 1 or 2 of the younger guys to develop further and escape the scrutiny.

13 players in the Cracked section, if 6 of them can graduate to the Backed List, that will mean we will have 28 players in for the possible long-haul. Naturally, there will be some older players who slide down the rankings, it happens to them all eventually.

All new draftees are fully assessed after two seasons and only then are they possibly moved off the Backed List.

Whilst our overall list is getting better each year, there is still a lot of work to be done before we are a genuine Top 4 aspirant.

Everyone needs to fully grasp this part :

The other important thing that a lot of people may be overlooking is that whilst the club has entered a 66-game "reset", it actually means we will work within four (4) trade & draft periods to get our list right, not three (3).

We are only halfway there at present.

My neck, my back..

 

[Jimmae]

No one is giving us a 1st round pick for Kruezar next year, the time to cash in on him has passed. We just need to now get the most of him and hope he can live up to 50% of his potential.

That's pretty much what I said, but I'm far less pessimistic about his output

 

[LordLucifer]

In a draft that gave us the opportunity to pick-up a big-bodied mid or two we didn't and instead, went for small quick running types ........ why ???

Call it a conspiracy theory if you like but I'm quite convinced we have other plans behind the scenes to pick-up a couple of bone-fide midfield guns like Fyffe.

Hmmmm ....................

CARLTON will target at least one and potentially two marquee players at the end of the 2017 season.

By then the Blues will have spent two years developing their crop of young players under coach Brendon Bolton and will be out to attract some genuine star power to the club. Carlton CEO Steven Trigg said the plan was to secure at least one top line player.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/car...n/news-story/adecbdb63faea3931b6eaa3161e88f23