Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[passmark]

That is fine but tell me the positions of the players that were studied before claiming i am feeding you BS.

Really?

 

[AB_Blue]

The most important bit of business for us IMO is the GWS trade MK II.

Besides Plowman there was no real standouts in the 4 last year although all of them contributed for us this year and have roles to play for the short-medium term

I can see one of two things happening.....

1. We give up our second for 3-5 players of similar ilk of last year:

Stewart, Steele, Tomlinson, WHE, Marchbank ect have all been muted but I doubt we get them all with a second rounder.....

Option 2 we delve into next years draft and give up our first (GWS always looking for future picks) and pick the eyes out of the above mentioned players and maybe add a couple to the list.

We then also receive back picks with to hit the draft in this year....(high teens, early twenties)

Any trades we do with other clubs for other players (Dre, 2e etc) we can ask for picks in next years draft to compensate for giving up our first rounder.

JOM should be a risk that we can't take...unless we front load the hell out of his contract and walk him into the PSD

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Then why has the injury dragged on fo 2 years? with no end in sight he can't even string 3 games together without breaking down and is now in for more work on the knee. If it was an easily recoverable injury in theory on paper he'd have been back killing it again last year ?

Because it takes 12-18 months, so thats why its taken just over 18 months. And it does have an end in sight. He played 3 weeks ago and was put on ice because it was the end of the season and GCS knew he was leaving.

I guarentee you he plays Round 1 next season wherever he goes.

 

[Sector 7G]

https://dynastyleaguefootball.com/2013/06/01/the-dynasty-doctor-6/



So yes, O'Meara's nearly 2 year layoff is consistent with the injury recovery expectation, as is his long build up to AFL level conditions given the need to recover strength through trial games.

JOM is outside the average 18 month recovery period (on the very small Mayo study sample side) and I wonder if JOM is going to be like the 1 out of 6 that didn't have excellent functional and clinical outcomes. The fact he has gone in for additional surgery would not be part of the injury recovery expectation and is worry enough for me to pass.

 

[passmark]

Not even close to identical IMO and NFL studies of injuries are irrelevant when comparing them to AFL footballers.

How does the injury repair of a 300 pound offensive linesman ruptured patella tendon who spends half the game on the bench in any way relate to a JOM who would literally run over 5-10klms a game?

It is flawed to relate it to our game and i have avidly watched the NFL for over 20 years.

Oh, ok then.

no need for research or any of that medical stuff then.

 

[Unknown Origin]

How is it Collingwood get who ever they want while we depend on the scraps no one really cares about.

I think of Treloar, Aish and now JOM & tomilson firmly in their sights.

I get that the pies are prob the biggest club but their on field performances in recent times, like ours, isn't great.....and they have that KNOBHEAD buckley.

 

[TheCoach16]

Chris Judd was all set to deliver us a premiership.

No more injured messiahs.

One more ? Please... Then we can stop.
Just one more.

 

[Chism]

Really?

Yes because a 300 pound offensive or defensive linesman would be lucky to run 500m in a whole game and most of that is going to the bench with a slow jog to sit on the sidelines for large stints of the game!

 

[BringBackSimmo]

How is it Collingwood get who ever they want while we depend on the scraps no one really cares about.

Well it's the same with Hawthorn.. Gibson, Frawley, Burgoyne and co.. i guess its a little different with them though, they have been successful.

 

[passmark]

Yes because a 300 pound offensive or defensive linesman would be lucky to run 500m in a whole game and most of that is going to the bench with a slow jog to sit on the sidelines for large stints of the game!

So if this is a spread of defensive lineman, WR's and running backs you'll start a JOM to Carlton petition?

 

[Blue and Silver]

JOM is outside the average 18 month recovery period (on the very small Mayo study sample side) and I wonder if JOM is going to be like the 1 out of 6 that didn't have excellent functional and clinical outcomes. The fact he has gone in for additional surgery would not be part of the injury recovery expectation and is worry enough for me to pass.

18 months to playing a match period.

That is fine but tell me the positions of the players that were studied before claiming i am feeding you BS.

Two Running backs and a safety at least according to the article I linked. All with positive outcomes

 

[passmark]

How is it Collingwood get who ever they want while we depend on the scraps no one really cares about.

I think of Treloar, Aish and now JOM & tomilson firmly in their sights.

I get that the pies are prob the biggest club but their on field performances in recent times, like ours, isn't great.....and they have that KNOBHEAD buckley.

They got Treloar.

Aish is a b grader who looked terrible for most of the year.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Great! Now somebody thinks we need to go for John Butcher after he was delisted by Port Adelaide.

WHY US?! He would only ever live up to his name.

 

[Azul]

If Chris Judd had of gone to Collingwood they would of won 3 premierships.

I'd rather we win none and Collingwood win none that us let Collingwood win one

Well um, okay. But we recruited Judd and they won one anyway. 9 years on and Kennedy is winning back to back Colemans.

I'd rather we built our own dynasty from our own players, starting with picks 5, 23, 41 and 50.

My reading of Bolton doing a 'reset' is that we've abandoned the checkbook.

Maybe I need to subscribe to that Netflicks thingee and watch Moneyball - I hear it deals with the situation.

 

[BringBackSimmo]

Great! Now somebody thinks we need to go for John Butcher after he was delisted by Port Adelaide.

WHY US?! He would only ever live up to his name.

Are you referring to me? I did make the preface "If only John Butcher was a year or few younger, and could manage this kind of form again.. (6 goals in 6 kicks)", actually it was pretty just the preface.

 

[Chism]

Two Running backs and a safety at least according to the article I linked. All with positive outcomes

And all 3 were totally out of the game within 3 years of doing this injury with a drop in stats in nearly every aspect after their comebacks, just cause they made it back on to the field to be some what serviceable does not excite me about paying GC and JOM what they want.

 

[ParapMarkets]

NFL is vastly different to our game.

Are those players they studied WR's /QB's / RB's or could be offensive linesman and defensive pass rushers etc?

None of those positions listed above are anywhere near what stress an AFL players body goes through in the course of a game. You cannot compare NFL injury studies to those who play AFL as the games are to different in every aspect and eacj NFL player spends close to half the game on the bench depending whether the offense or defense is on the field not to mention only a 16 week season.

I have to disagree there, NFL is absolutely brutal. I don't know how you can an NFL players body wouldn't go through anywhere near as much stress as an AFL players. Especially the positions you have listed, the defenders are trying to injure them at all costs and pummel them into next week.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Are you referring to me? I did make the preface "If only John Butcher was a year or few younger, and could manage this kind of form again.. (6 goals in 6 kicks)"

No, a few on twitter.

Regardless, if the club got Butcher, I would honestly give up.

Giving many players with poor reputations a second chance would only make us look more stupid.
I'm not wanting to go down the path of having another player like Liam Jones that has so much potential but easily fails to live up to the expectations.

 

[footyfan1978]

 

[Realtrublu]

can confirm Stringer and Beveridge are going at it, the club are open to trading him, although he will play in the finals, pm if you want more info it is not fair to stick it in the public domain........

Why are they going at each other?
Does it boil down to a personality clash? If so Stringer may be better off with Bolts. Beveridge is a high octane personality apparently. If that is so he might clash with players who have a Type A personality. Sounds like Stringer has such a personality.

 

[Sector 7G]

And all 3 were totally out of the game within 3 years of doing this injury with a drop in stats in nearly every aspect after their comebacks, just cause they made it back on to the field to be some what serviceable does not excite me about paying GC and JOM what they want.

Maybe the positive outcome was the surgeons bought new beach houses on the back of performing the surgeries.

Until JOM plays AFL no one can say he will be the player he was let alone the player he was expected to become.

While Judd was great at Carlton we didn't get the player he was 2004-2006 at WC. Look at his highlights when he retired there were numerous examples of him streaming out of the centre and kicking goals from 50 at WC. Only did it a couple of times at Carlton.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Well um, okay. But we recruited Judd and they won one anyway. 9 years on and Kennedy is winning back to back Colemans.

I'd rather we built our own dynasty from our own players, starting with picks 5, 23, 41 and 50.

My reading of Bolton doing a 'reset' is that we've abandoned the checkbook.

Maybe I need to subscribe to that Netflicks thingee and watch Moneyball - I hear it deals with the situation.

We're not going to be giving away Josh Kennedy are we.

If the Judd trade had of just been Chris Masten for Judd you'd bet we'd all be celebrating. O'Meara will not cost as much as Judd, mid-late first and a second or player. That's not judd level.

And it's not going the checkbook, it's intelligent recruiting.

Everyone on here is being way to defensive, they made up their minds that O'Meara is too "scary" to recruit, which is fine, but dont post bullshit justifications or breeze over perfectly good responses to your fears just so you can stay fearful

 

[Duke Of Earl]

Had mostly forgot about this place until 'Chief' emailed me with a free six month platinum membership offer!!! What a time to be alive. Alright boyos, I've gone through the list and offered my opinion on each

Andrew Walker Retired. Great clubman.
Jack Silvagni Keep. Impressed by his hands and footy smarts. Looks so young out there and will continually grow over next 4-5 years.
Marc Murphy Keep. Shame about injuries this year. Will stay on as captain. Really needed him out there in last few rounds.
Bryce Gibbs Keep. Standout year! Now a leader.
Kade Simpson Keep. Playing his best ever footy at 32. Amazing
Dylan Buckley Delist if we have not too many others ahead of him. If he gets another contract then max 2 years, ideally 1. Probably won't get better than he is now. Likely won't be playing consistent AFL for any club in 2 years time.
Matthew Kreuzer Keep? Too old and too injured to be of any trade value. Not sure of his contract status but likely won't be playing after 2018. Needs to work on judging a ball in flight - bloke runs under it without question 3 out of 4 times!
Patrick Cripps Keep. Great year. And he still has a lot of room for improvement e.g. kicking, leg speed. Which is obvious for any 3rd year player but given he is already a gun...
Harry McKay Keep. Want to see what he can do.
Sam Kerridge Keep - has 2017 contract? Thought he would be better but not sure why. Too many errors. Poor kick. No extra contract.
Blaine Boekhorst I don't see any potential. Delist.
Jed Lamb Injured this year I think? Keep
Liam Jones Why we gave this spud a 3 year contract is a mystery. Says a lot when he can barely snatch a spot in just about the worst forward line in the league.
Sam Docherty Keep. Awesome year and my pick for the B&F
Dillon Viojo-Rainbow Don't know anything about him. Probably won't make it
Sam Rowe Keep. Good year for Rowe, but he is not what we want. I'd play him next year given we don't have many other options given Jamo retired. Lack of skills exposes him but has strength.
Kristian Jaksch No good, but stuck with 1 more year on the contract. Such a light frame not sure how he made it this far or where he fits
Liam Sumner Lacklustre, has no impact on games. Keep at this stage.
Lachie Plowman Keep. Plays a role.
Jason Tutt Delist
Jacob Weitering Keep of course
Mark Whiley Delist
Clem Smith ? Too many of these (very) small mids/forwards on our list
Jaden Foster ?
Dennis Armfield Don't seem any point in keeping but 1 year could do.
David Cunningham Keep. Looks to have some pace which we sorely need in midfield. Small though
Charlie Curnow Keep.
Matthew Dick Delist.
Nick Graham Keep. Limited at this level - smallish, not quick, ok skills but no tricks. Hard worker and tackler though.
Adrejs Everitt Disappointing. Would like to keep if we knew what we were getting
Andrew Phillips Keep, ok year.
Ed Curnow Keep. Great year, has worked very hard, will always be limited but plays roles
Daniel Gorringe Delist
Dale Thomas Only have one year left with this very ordinary footballer
Michael Jamison Retired.
Levi Casboult Could have been trade bait at end of last year but less so now. Still can't kick and hasn't changed his technique. Runs and leads to wrong places consistently. Time to cut our losses. 5 years at the club! We can't say that we didn't try
Zach Tuohy Trade bait if something is on offer. Otherwise is best 22. Decent year
Simon White Seems to stick around. Keep at this stage but he is getting on in years.
Matthew Wright Keep but must improve

I would hope get rid of maybe 9 - 10 players, not including rookies. A problem of ours is lack of trade bait options - Tuohy comes to mind and even Graham. We need a pacy mid or a taller forward willing to work hard. Delist Casboult or trade but doubt we will get anything much in return.
Didn't list rookies - keep Byrne (impressive), delist Sheehan and Wood.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You can let someone else win a premiership, i won't advocate doing as such.

JOM will not get us a premiership we have too many holes on our list.

It'll be similar to when we got Judd only worse. We will advance a few spots on the ladder meaning we will be mid range but eventually not good enough.

I already told you GC will be asking for way more than pick#18, 2017 2nd rounder and Everitt.

We are not 1-2 players away from a flag!!!

 

[Chasing 17]

[..] was put on ice because it was the end of the season and GCS knew he was leaving.

I guarantee you he plays Round 1 next season wherever he goes.

Agreed, check out the interview he gives after that NEAFL game. He knew he was leaving and wanted to get to Melbourne in good condition.