Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

[Robertio]

OK what about Cam Ellis Yolman instead of Brad Crouch then?

In all respect Brad Crouch is a very good player but you play without him quite often

 

[Crow till I die]

That’s like an 8>5? You’d be a better judge than me, but that’s also generous on Crouch who’s a second tier midfielder.

With all due respect, that is a terrible comment.. compare Brad Crouch 2017 averages to Cripps 2018 averages and they not too dissimilar..and we all agree cripps had a great year last year. Also Brad Crouch was Adelaide's best performed player in the 2017 finals series

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid1=3633&pid2=3930&fid1=P&fopt1=2017&fid2=S

 

[La Dispute]

With all due respect, that is a terrible comment.. compare Brad Crouch 2017 averages to Cripps 2018 averages and they not too dissimilar..and we all agree cripps had a great year last year. Also Brad Crouch was Adelaide's best performed player in the 2017 finals series

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid1=3633&pid2=3930&fid1=P&fopt1=2017&fid2=S

So Cripps smashes him in the contested possessions, which is the main gauge for their role. Cripps’ impact on a game is significantly bigger than Crouch’s overall.

Crouch isn’t on Sloane or M. Crouches level, he’s the next tier down, comparable to Jack Viney if I was going to pluck out an opppsition player.

 

[Monkey King]

why..we know how the team trended until the outlier of last year. Carlton were trending down - 12th under bolton's 1st year, 14th under his 2nd year - 18th under his 3rd year

If Carlton win 10 games next season, 2018 will look like an outlier. If Adelaide win 12 games, 2018 won’t look like an outlier. Until whatever happens next happens, it’s just another of your lopsided possibilities.

 

[Crow till I die]

So Cripps smashes him in the contested possessions, which is the main gauge for their role. Cripps’ impact on a game is significantly bigger than Crouch’s overall.

Crouch isn’t on Sloane or M. Crouches level, he’s the next tier down, comparable to Jack Viney if I was going to pluck out an opppsition player.

You have literally no idea about Brad Crouch - no idea. I suggest you actually go watch him play. Fit he is better than M Crouch and is at least on par with Sloane. To rate him as a second tier mid is just absolute rubbish

Edit. When fit he is the crows best mid in terms of ability. Then Sloane then M Crouch

 

[La Dispute]

You have literally no idea about Brad Crouch - no idea. I suggest you actually go watch him play. Fit he is better than M Crouch and is at least on par with Sloane. To rate him as a second tier mid is just absolute rubbish

Edit. When fit he is the crows best mid in terms of ability. Then Sloane then M Crouch

You clearly rate him higher than I do, which is fine.

Nice player - not a high end mid though, and certainly not above your best.

 

[Crow till I die]

If Carlton win 10 games next season, 2018 will look like an outlier. If Adelaide win 12 games, 2018 won’t look like an outlier. Until whatever happens next happens, it’s just another of your lopsided possibilities.

how did you come up with that conclusion? Since Carlton last made finals in 2013, the finishing positions at the end of the minor round read 13th, 18th, 14th, 16th & 18th. In the same time the crows have finished 11th, 10th, 7th, 5th, 1st & 12th. Nothing lopsided about facts

 

[Robertio]

You have literally no idea about Brad Crouch - no idea. I suggest you actually go watch him play. Fit he is better than M Crouch and is at least on par with Sloane. To rate him as a second tier mid is just absolute rubbish

Edit. When fit he is the crows best mid in terms of ability. Then Sloane then M Crouch

If i was to tell you Zac Fisher is a star you would laugh at me, Brad Crouch is a very good player but he would have to stay on the park for a couple of season's before you put him and Cripps in the same sentence. For his sake i hope it happens.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What about your coach? 2nd in his first year, 12th in his second year. Please don't use the injury get out clause. His first year he walked into a Phill Walsh system and then when he was in charge you dropped 10 spots TEN.

I have seen enough coaches to have confidence that Pyke has been one of our better ones.

Last season was destroyed by Burton not Pyke.

Pyke has shown he can take a team to a grand final with a decent game plan.. whereas I'm yet to be convinced Bolton has an understandable game plan to get Cartlon into the finals.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

OK what about Cam Ellis Yolman instead of Brad Crouch then?

Brodie Smith instead of Jake Kelly.

Fit Tex instead of injured Tex. Ditto Sloane.

 

[ad victoriam]

So Cripps smashes him in the contested possessions, which is the main gauge for their role. Cripps’ impact on a game is significantly bigger than Crouch’s overall.

Crouch isn’t on Sloane or M. Crouches level, he’s the next tier down, comparable to Jack Viney if I was going to pluck out an opppsition player.

You Don't know much about the Crows or any of there players do you. And you have proven that many times, have you seen any of there games or do you use stats to determine how good a player is.
Just for future references, Seedsman did not replace B Smith, Seedsman does not play the Half Back role, The Players who Covered B Smith were Milera and at times MacKay/Douglas.
But your views on B Crouch are even worse, Guess you missed the times when he made the difference between winning and losing for the Crows in 2017, yes he lifted when the team need someone to lift another level,
And Your right B Crouch is not at Sloane or M Crouch level he actually better. in crunch times he takes on a game and wins it when needed.
A fit B Crouch is worth a few extra close games the ones we lost last year.

 

[La Dispute]

You Don't know much about the Crows or any of there players do you. And you have proven that many times, have you seen any of there games or do you use stats to determine how good a player is.
Just for future references, Seedsman did not replace B Smith, Seedsman does not play the Half Back role, The Players who Covered B Smith were Milera and at times MacKay/Douglas.
But your views on B Crouch are even worse, Guess you missed the times when he made the difference between winning and losing for the Crows in 2017, yes he lifted when the team need someone to lift another level,
And Your right B Crouch is not at Sloane or M Crouch level he actually better. in crunch times he takes on a game and wins it when needed.
A fit B Crouch is worth a few extra close games the ones we lost last year.

Need a future trigger warning for any time anyone doesn’t rate a Crows player as highly as you do.

B Crouch wouldn’t be in the top 20 midfielders in the AFL, while Cripps is in the top few mids in the league.

Had a nice purple patch in the finals in 2017, but until he’s played at that level for several years he’s not in the same conversation.

 

[ad victoriam]

What about your coach? 2nd in his first year, 12th in his second year. Please don't use the injury get out clause. His first year he walked into a Phill Walsh system and then when he was in charge you dropped 10 spots TEN.

You really need to get your story correct.

Pyke 1st year Crows 16 wins finished home and away in 5th lost the Semifinal to Syndey
Pyke 2nd year Crows 15 wins finished 1st home and away lost the Grand Final to Richmond
Pykes 3rd year Crows 12 wins finished 10th

Since coaching the Crows he has amassed 71 games for 46 wins 24loses 1 draw. 64% win-loss record

 

[ad victoriam]

Need a future trigger warning for any time anyone doesn’t rate a Crows player as highly as you do.

B Crouch wouldn’t be in the top 20 midfielders in the AFL, while Cripps is in the top few mids in the league.

Had a nice purple patch in the finals in 2017, but until he’s played at that level for several years he’s not in the same conversation.

Don't give 2 shits about Cripps vs B Crouch, you're the one who seems more concern with that, Personally, Your team can have the best-rated players in the AFL but until they win games for your team thats all they ever be.
And I am not talking about being the best on the ground when your team getting flogged, I am talking about lifting your team to win the Close games, When Cripps reaches that level then I will rate him alongside of Dangerfield, Martin etc until then he another very good midfielder showing promise.

The Difference between you and me is I am more interested in who win games for there team, who lifts when needed.

 

[Crow till I die]

Need a future trigger warning for any time anyone doesn’t rate a Crows player as highly as you do.

B Crouch wouldn’t be in the top 20 midfielders in the AFL, while Cripps is in the top few mids in the league.

Had a nice purple patch in the finals in 2017, but until he’s played at that level for several years he’s not in the same conversation.

A fully fit Brad crouch most certainly would be in the top 20 mids in the league..end of

 

[Crow till I die]

Don't give 2 shits about Cripps vs B Crouch, you're the one who seems more concern with that, Personally, Your team can have the best-rated players in the AFL but until they win games for your team thats all they ever be.
And I am not talking about being the best on the ground when your team getting flogged, I am talking about lifting your team to win the Close games, When Cripps reaches that level then I will rate him alongside of Dangerfield, Martin etc until then he another very good midfielder showing promise.

The Difference between you and me is I am more interested in who win games for there team, who lifts when needed.

Cripps did play an absolute blinder vs us in R23 2018 - he was awesome but the resat of the team were at the other end of the scale. It will be some time before he can lift the team to wins as first they have to get more competitive across the board. lets see if that is this year although I suspect it won't be..maybe 2020?

 

[La Dispute]

A fully fit Brad crouch most certainly would be in the top 20 mids in the league..end of

Martin, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Mitchell,
Cripps, Oliver, Neale, Selwood,
Treloar, Sloane, Sidebottom, Beams, Merrett, Shiel, Coniglio, Ward, Kelly, Yeo, Kennedy, Gaff, Bontempelli,
Macrae all better midfielders than Crouch

 

[Crow till I die]

Martin, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Mitchell,
Cripps, Oliver, Neale, Selwood,
Treloar, Sloane, Sidebottom, Beams, Merrett, Shiel, Coniglio, Ward, Kelly, Yeo, Kennedy, Gaff, Bontempelli,
Macrae all better midfielders than Crouch

Rubbish. A fully fit B Crouch is better than Shiel, Merrett, Neale, Sloane for starters. You have not seen him play have you. He was in the top 5 players of the entire 2017 finals series

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/coaches-reveal-2017-gary-ayres-award-winner/

 

[La Dispute]

Rubbish. A fully fit B Crouch is better than Shiel, Merrett, Neale, Sloane for starters. You have not seen him play have you. He was in the top 5 players of the entire 2017 finals series

http://www.aflplayers.com.au/article/coaches-reveal-2017-gary-ayres-award-winner/

2017 finals > a players career, in your opinion.

A big reason B Crouch had a strong finals series in 2017 is because opposition teams targeted M Crouch and Sloane, who are far more damaging, influential players

 

[Monkey King]

how did you come up with that conclusion?

You were speaking of Bolton’s three seasons in charge. If you plot the H&A wins for both teams over these seasons, the shape of the distributions are almost identical, so it’s an obvious conclusion.

In the same time the crows have finished 11th, 10th, 7th, 5th, 1st & 12th. Nothing lopsided about facts

This data actually forms a very neat, negatively skewed bell curve, finishing pretty much it started. Half the time you’ve finished 10th or lower (avg 11th), meaning 12th spot in 2018 is no outlier in this sequence.

 

[Crow till I die]

You were speaking of Bolton’s three seasons in charge. If you plot the H&A wins for both teams over these seasons, the shape of the distributions are almost identical, so it’s an obvious conclusion.



This data actually forms a very neat, negatively skewed bell curve, finishing pretty much it started. Half the time you’ve finished 10th or lower (avg 11th), meaning 12th spot in 2018 is no outlier in this sequence.

Bolton had a 14th place, then 16th place and now 18th place finish - that is in anyone's language a negative trend and it can't get any lower. In 2016 the crows finished 5th, 2017 1st and 2018 12th. That equates to a semi final, a grand final and just missing the finals (and the year they missed was due to a massive injury count to their better players and a bad preseason camp that set the wrong tone) The year before - 2015, the crows also made a semi final..so 2018 is very much an outlier. So with all due respect, I can't see how you came to your conclusions as in simple terms - one club has been on a steady negative trend whilst the other has been on a positive trend with 1 outlier season.

 

[Rich01]

A fully fit Brad crouch most certainly would be in the top 20 mids in the league..end of

Only Cripps at Carlton would be ahead of him.

Can’t comment on Walsh or Stocker as haven’t seen them at AFL level and Dow is tracking along ok. But if those three could get to his level Carlton would be laughing.

But the rest of the mids on their list look to be inferior and their ceiling not as high as Crouch.

 

[ad victoriam]

Martin, Fyfe, Dangerfield, Mitchell,
Cripps, Oliver, Neale, Selwood,
Treloar, Sloane, Sidebottom, Beams, Merrett, Shiel, Coniglio, Ward, Kelly, Yeo, Kennedy, Gaff, Bontempelli,
Macrae all better midfielders than Crouch

You joking or you have not seen him play, this is a Kid who came runner up in the rising star in only 14 games, Yes he, not top-level YET but if he stays on the park he will be top 10 in the AFL,
Again This kid wins games, some of the player you mention play great football but don't win games for the teams.

But you will find that out this year.
And we are not trying to spin a yarn here, B Crouch in the Crows side with his Brother, plus Sloane, Gibbs and the backups will be a big improvement on last year Crows Midfield.

 

[La Dispute]

You joking or you have not seen him play, this is a Kid who came runner up in the rising star in only 14 games, Yes he, not top-level YET but if he stays on the park he will be top 10 in the AFL,
Again This kid wins games, some of the player you mention play great football but don't win games for the teams.

But you will find that out this year.
And we are not trying to spin a yarn here, B Crouch in the Crows side with his Brother, plus Sloane, Gibbs and the backups will be a big improvement on last year Crows Midfield.

This 'kid' is 25 years old. He's now a mature footballer about to enter his sixth season and should be in his prime.

Not that the Rising Star means squat but he had an advantage over the rest of the field due to having an extra pre-season, coming into the AFL as a top draft pick with the conditioning of 2nd year player.

 

[Monkey King]

So with all due respect, I can't see how you came to your conclusions as in simple terms - one club has been on a steady negative trend whilst the other has been on a positive trend with 1 outlier season.

You keep moving the goal posts. You started by asking me about wins, and then talked about Bolton’s era, so that’s the what and when being dealt with here. Carlton’s 2 win season is a greater deviation from their H&A average over this period than Adelaide’s 12 win season is from theirs, which makes Carlton’s 2 win season the greater statistical outlier of the two over this 3 season period. This is a calculatable fact. I don’t know what else to say. My point of course, is to say that it’s not what happened that determines the outlier here, but what happens next.

I do wanna note one funny part of your “since 2013” timeframe switch, which was that out of the numbers you provided, finishing first in 2017 was the outlier, not finishing 12th in 2018. Gave me a chuckle.