Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
So, straight swap, Gaff for Kelly?
2019 ALL AUSTRALIAN TEAM
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The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
No - because that would leave Gaff still in the side
Kelly to go into the best 18 - but Gaff wouldn't be a look in for the top 40
Kick ins only count as a disposal if a player kicks to themselves first.
"PLAYERS will be awarded a disposal when they completely step out of the goal square from a kick-in or handball the ball to a teammate from the square, Champion Data has advised."
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-01-17/champion-data-clarifies-disposal-stats-for-kickins
Neither of which are really valid for Hurn since he rarely goes for runs/plays on from kick ins, nor does he handball.
Hurn is getting more disposals because his role has changed slightly.
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Hurn exits the goal square pretty much every time he kicks in. He is averaging fewer marks and possessions than last year but more kicks and disposals.
He's basically doing exactly what he did in 2018 except being credited with a couple more kicks.
He's basically doing exactly what he did in 2018 except being credited with a couple more kicks.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
I meant WCE swap Gaff for Kelly....but sounds like you think Cats would need more
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Nope I meant for season 2019
Gaff’s delivered 3 AA seasons - had a similar quality year last year
I wouldn’t trade Gaff for Kelly
That's an interesting view given there is no rewind option on careers, Gaff is 28 next year and probably has played his best football while Kelly will only be 25 and still in his peak.
I think it's the Cats who shouldn't make that trade ignoring the home state factors.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Indeed - but I like my stars to have played more than half a season of AA football
Otherwise you’d compare jack darling to Wayne Carey after his start to last year
Or des headland to James hird
Or Adrian macadam to daicos
Or any other of a vast array of blokes who had a purple paych
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Fair enough. Will your view change if Kelly wins the Brownlow and/or MVP, remembering he was runner up in the Cats' B&F in 2018?
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Kelly is clearly worth more than Gaff currently.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Not really - Brad Hardie and Shane woewoedin did that
If he does it (as) again next year I’ll change my mind
But like I said there is no rewind option. Gaff's best football at the level is very likely to have been played already, while Kelly has just hit that period. I think you're underselling his last 30 games. He's this year become one of the premier mids in the game.
Due to supporter bias, I don't expect you to take Kelly over Gaff or vice versa Cats fans, but to most neutral observers Kelly would be the better buy for the remainder of their careers and worth more in a trade.
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
I don’t have supporter bias - I’m pretty objective about football
It’s why I was refuting a previous poster putting Gaff in the AA side - that’s how this conversation started
I agree gaffs played his best football - but that doesn’t mean he’s on the decline - he’s reached his level - which is a dominant AA ourside mid level
He’s got at least a few years to keep delivering that
Kelly’s had an outstanding 12 weeks and a solid but not special season beforehand
Last year was a good debut - but a mile from AA - that’s revisionist
Fair point just a difference of opinion then. Gaff's a very fine player, I just would take Kelly moving forward given age and my predicted form profiles.
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Theoretically you could make that argument (I wouldn't agree but each to their own).
Practically it's a pretty hard sell given one is a year into a long term contract and the other is coming out of contract having requested a trade last year.
Interesting hearing this interview with one of Champion Data's top stats people.
He called Shannon Hurn a freak and easily the best kick in the competition. Said he kicks at a rating of 3.5 standard deviations above the expected (which is insane).
It's not dinky short kicks or safe kick ins either.
player.whooshkaa.com
He called Shannon Hurn a freak and easily the best kick in the competition. Said he kicks at a rating of 3.5 standard deviations above the expected (which is insane).
It's not dinky short kicks or safe kick ins either.
Whooshkaa Shows
player.whooshkaa.com
The Falcon Strike
Hall of Famer
Interesting hearing this interview with one of Champion Data's top stats people.
He called Shannon Hurn a freak and easily the best kick in the competition. Said he kicks at a rating of 3.5 standard deviations above the expected (which is insane).
It's not dinky short kicks or safe kick ins either.
Whooshkaa Shows
I'd be really interested to see his results for 2016/17 - when i think he was middling with his kicking for some reason.
however he got his kicking mojo back last year - just so bloody reliable.
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Stopped watching after skipping the intro and seeing he'd chosen Shannon Hurn and Alex Pearce in his backline
Sick of the Western Australian bias in these AA discussions. There are 16 other teams, you know.
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Very nice selections.
- Mar 2, 2015
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Most people have picked Stephen Coniglio in their teams, but what about Josh Kelly and Tim Taranto ?
Kelly missed 3 games, but has been in sensational form. He is one of the best mids in the AFL
Taranto has stepped up in the absence of Callan Ward. He is a 2-way, midfield bull who wins clearances, tackles, defends, gets forward and kicks goals
He has 323 pressure acts which is 105 more than Matt de Boer in 2nd place for GWS (and twice as many as Coniglio)
Only Dayne Zorko and Darcy MacPherson have more pressure acts in the AFL this year
Tim Taranto
Rd 01 v Ess - 112 SC, 30 poss, 10 tackles, 2 goals, 8 votes
Rd 02 v WCE - 78 SC , 20 poss, 5 tackles,
Rd 03 v Rich - 112 SC, 30 poss, 6 tackles, 2 goals, 2 votes
Rd 04 v Geel - 113 SC, 28 poss, 9 tackles, ...........2 votes
Rd 05 v Freo - 67 SC , 22 poss, 6 tackles,
Rd 06 v Syd - 136 SC, 30 poss, 10 tackles, 1 goal, 9 votes
Rd 07 v St K - 96 SC , 28 poss, 3 tackles, 1 goal, ..2 votes
Rd 08 v Haw - 104 SC, 24 poss, 4 tackles,
Rd 09 v Carl - 144 SC, 38 poss, 4 tackles, 1 goal, 7 votes
Rd 10 v Melb - 132 SC, 32 poss, 8 tackles, ......... 4 votes
Rd 11 v Gold - 71 SC , 24 poss, 4 tackles,
Rd 12 v Adel - 131 SC, 36 poss, 7 tackles, 1 goal, 8 votes
Rd 13 v NM - 105 SC, 30 poss, 10 tackles, 1 goal, 2 votes
Kelly missed 3 games, but has been in sensational form. He is one of the best mids in the AFL
Taranto has stepped up in the absence of Callan Ward. He is a 2-way, midfield bull who wins clearances, tackles, defends, gets forward and kicks goals
He has 323 pressure acts which is 105 more than Matt de Boer in 2nd place for GWS (and twice as many as Coniglio)
Only Dayne Zorko and Darcy MacPherson have more pressure acts in the AFL this year
Tim Taranto
Rd 01 v Ess - 112 SC, 30 poss, 10 tackles, 2 goals, 8 votes
Rd 02 v WCE - 78 SC , 20 poss, 5 tackles,
Rd 03 v Rich - 112 SC, 30 poss, 6 tackles, 2 goals, 2 votes
Rd 04 v Geel - 113 SC, 28 poss, 9 tackles, ...........2 votes
Rd 05 v Freo - 67 SC , 22 poss, 6 tackles,
Rd 06 v Syd - 136 SC, 30 poss, 10 tackles, 1 goal, 9 votes
Rd 07 v St K - 96 SC , 28 poss, 3 tackles, 1 goal, ..2 votes
Rd 08 v Haw - 104 SC, 24 poss, 4 tackles,
Rd 09 v Carl - 144 SC, 38 poss, 4 tackles, 1 goal, 7 votes
Rd 10 v Melb - 132 SC, 32 poss, 8 tackles, ......... 4 votes
Rd 11 v Gold - 71 SC , 24 poss, 4 tackles,
Rd 12 v Adel - 131 SC, 36 poss, 7 tackles, 1 goal, 8 votes
Rd 13 v NM - 105 SC, 30 poss, 10 tackles, 1 goal, 2 votes
Kelly's kicking has been an issue, much like Gaff's earlier in the year.
Taranto I rate though.
showemhowtorock
Cancelled
- Jun 18, 2019
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I know hes been mentioned a few times but it stresses me out that Luke Ryan could be flying under the radar, he is that *ing good!
The way he stepped up to lead the backline in Pearce absence was incredible.
Hes obviously a great intercept mark, but his pressure acts and tackling are right up there for his position too.
the way he positions himself, how efficient he is and how good the decisions he makes are is mind blowing!!!
he is so reliable that he's pretty much as much of a game winner as Walters, he just has to be there
The way he stepped up to lead the backline in Pearce absence was incredible.
Hes obviously a great intercept mark, but his pressure acts and tackling are right up there for his position too.
the way he positions himself, how efficient he is and how good the decisions he makes are is mind blowing!!!
he is so reliable that he's pretty much as much of a game winner as Walters, he just has to be there
