List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals - Part 2 (The 2020 Draft)

[Ralphyboy]

People need to stop with the absolute rubbish machismo attitude to this whole 'assault' thing. Yes it's terrible. But it's not above every other discretion. It's not beyond the point of rehabilitation. Marlion Pickett

50

Marlion Pickett

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

5.5

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

1.5

4star

D

11.7

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

5.0

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

1.3

4star

D

12.8

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.6

4star

was charged with assault, grieves bodily harm, 17 accounts of burglary, destroying people's livelihoods.Comes back into the worshipped culture of Richmond and now has 2 premierships. What about their sponsors???

Easy for you to sit on your priveladged armchair being the white knight for all assault victims. What were Elijah's previous circumstances? Did he experience assault between his parents, family etc, did he grow up amongst alcohol and drugs? Don't need to be a genius to know why alot of indigenous kids have certain issues.

Anyone who shows remorse deserves a second chance. We don't know of he did or not. If he was remorseful then I'm disappointed in the club.

The separation was a mutual decision. What is most likely is that Taylor was not willing to meet the expectations set by the club for a return and elected to leave. I am also aware that all the players including the leadership were very uncomfortable with his attitude to training, being part of the team, and the events. The concerns were made sharper with the delisting of players like Zac Foote who would have given everything to play.


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[BruceFromBalnarring]

Stand him down till it runs it course then. They've made the decision based on something. Say what it is. Don't try to slide through with political jargon. They know they are avoiding their responsibilty here hence the diluted statement. Otherwise why not be straight forward.

Someone posited earlier that Taylor’s legal team might have said “If you’re going to sack him, do it before sentencing, as it will be taken into account.” There’s a sound hypothesis and would require diplomacy in its announcement.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I have some sympathy for the guy because I highly suspect it was intentional entrapment to cause the damage that has ensued.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

My version said literally nothing that the club's statement didn't say... so I don't know why you think it sounds better.

Why should they mention the rest of the playing group? Whether the playing group trusts him or not at this point is moot. His actions gave the club no choice other than to part ways, regardless of what the other players think.

In the very first sentence Gardiner mentions that Taylor acknowledges his mistakes, and later it says he understood that the right decision was for him to be cut from the team. That speaks to his attitude about the situation leading up to the club's decision to sack him.

But the club does rightfully does want to put this saga to bed. When an employee repeatedly fails to follow instructions and then commits serious crimes to the point at which they can no longer reasonably be employed anymore it really isn't the club's responsibility anymore about what that employee does next.

We gave him chances. We gave him instructions. We gave him assistance. He burned through it. There are reasonable limits to the club's patience and tolerance, and those limits have been passed, so now he is at the point where he has to rehabilitate his life and career by himself. It isn't the club's place to comment on what Taylor does from this point on or what his attitude for the future is. That is something for Taylor to say himself and demonstrate himself with his own actions. I hope he does a good job of it.

I really don't understand your problem here.

I think Zyzz raises a legitimate issue insofar as the AFL generally plucks teenage boys from their homes, shifts them across the other side of the country, places them in an unforgiving moral and disciplinary environment then speaks in platitudes about mental health, morality, social issues and the like.

I don’t fault the Swans here, as I can think of a number of reasons why they/we have taken the course in the timeframe that they/we have.

But I think the competition broadly has some way to go before they solve the issues created by drafting kids so young, and the only real solution is to raise the draft age. They had a golden opportunity to do it this year, and didn’t. So I doubt they ever will.

 

[RobbieK]

I think Zyzz raises a legitimate issue insofar as the AFL generally plucks teenage boys from their homes, shifts them across the other side of the country, places them in an unforgiving moral and disciplinary environment then speaks in platitudes about mental health, morality, social issues and the like.

I don’t fault the Swans here, as I can think of a number of reasons why they/we have taken the course in the timeframe that they/we have.

But I think the competition broadly has some way to go before they solve the issues created by drafting kids so young, and the only real solution is to raise the draft age. They had a golden opportunity to do it this year, and didn’t. So I doubt they ever will.

I don't think that the league or the clubs have ever been more aware of the difficulties faced by new draftees, there is more support for these boys than there ever has been. Is it enough? I don't know. I do know that the vast, vast majority of those boys never get in to the position that Taylor has found himself in. I think that suggests the issue was less a systemic one and more a personal one.

 

[Vin Rogue]

Pure wingman IMO so I don't consider him part of our midfield stocks.

A winger is not part of the midfield?

 

[BloodySwan]

A winger is not part of the midfield?

Just as people tend to ignore a ruck as part of the midfield

 

[Vin Rogue]

Just as people tend to ignore a ruck as part of the midfield

Onballers go everywhere ( Rucks, rovers, utilities, taggers) versus midfielders who predominantly play between the arcs ( wingers and centreman).

 

[Tedeski]

I think Zyzz raises a legitimate issue insofar as the AFL generally plucks teenage boys from their homes, shifts them across the other side of the country, places them in an unforgiving moral and disciplinary environment then speaks in platitudes about mental health, morality, social issues and the like.

I don’t fault the Swans here, as I can think of a number of reasons why they/we have taken the course in the timeframe that they/we have.

But I think the competition broadly has some way to go before they solve the issues created by drafting kids so young, and the only real solution is to raise the draft age. They had a golden opportunity to do it this year, and didn’t. So I doubt they ever will.

Let's call a spade a spade here.
The kid right now, as we speak, is no good. Trouble. He was drafted by one of the best clubs in the land when it comes to mental health & off field education.
Perhaps the hub was no environment for such a lad.

If a club like ours is moving on from him then rest assured, he needs other help.
Move on folks. Give another kid a go. If it allows us to keep Fox on the list then it's an excellent decision.

 

[caesar88]

A winger is not part of the midfield?

I was referring to our inside mids, where our problem lies. Not the wing, where we have a host of quality options. Thought that would've been obvious by the fact I was arguing Blakey, Campbell etc won't be full-time mids as they won't be at our centre bounces full-time.

I'm not sure I share your emphasis on strict designated titles and roles, particularly in this era of flooding where basically everyone plays everywhere.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I don't think that the league or the clubs have ever been more aware of the difficulties faced by new draftees, there is more support for these boys than there ever has been. Is it enough? I don't know. I do know that the vast, vast majority of those boys never get in to the position that Taylor has found himself in. I think that suggests the issue was less a systemic one and more a personal one.

I agree. But we don’t make laws for the majority for a good reason.

The issue I pointed to was alluded to by Matt Rendell some years ago and bears serious thought. It’s a multi layered problem and the competition seemingly doesn’t do enough (although I acknowledge they try) to manage the cultural difficulties of some of our most talented players in making the adjustments necessary to succeed at the top level.

And I don’t think straight out abandonment (which the Swans/AFL haven’t been guilty of in this case but which has been advocated by many) is the answer.

 

[caesar88]

Get excited !!

Class of 2020: Why Braeden Campbell is Sydney's next Academy star

Top prospect Braeden Campbell shares the lessons he's learnt from his time in the Swans Academy

www.afl.com.au

 

[S120]

Get excited !!

https://www.afl.com.au/video/526042...ramType:programs&references=AFL_COMPETITION:1

I know I am. The prospect at getting at least 3 top quality kids in this draft (4 if TheMase has anything to do with it) is so exciting. Campbell and Gulden seem like quality young men too. They comes across as close mates with sound temperaments. It's too good an opportunity for us to take two Sydney kids and given the likelihood of where they'll get bid on, I'd just about take them irrespective of where the bids come.

 

[Kapers]

The separation was a mutual decision. What is most likely is that Taylor was not willing to meet the expectations set by the club for a return and elected to leave. I am also aware that all the players including the leadership were very uncomfortable with his attitude to training, being part of the team, and the events. The concerns were made sharper with the delisting of players like Zac Foote who would have given everything to play.


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This, imo, is the most important and damning part of the whole event. He is effectively taking another's opportunity to be part of the team. He has obviously shown a lack of responsibility and reliability that others in the team have noticed. Keeping him on is not only about the effect on ET, but the effect on the playing group.

Attitude is always more important than any other attribute.

 

[Kapers]

Get excited !!

https://www.afl.com.au/video/526042...ramType:programs&references=AFL_COMPETITION:1

Ehhhh, only if he is chosen between 15-20. Doesn't get enough of the ball, and just isn't big enough. ACADEMY IS A FAILURE.


Now let's get back to Elijah Taylor and the ethics regarding his dismissal.

 

[Kapers]

I almost want Campbell to bid before our pick, I think it would be super interesting to see what we do.

I imagine we would trade up to grab a few of Essedons or GWS picks, then maybe try to trade back down with some future picks.

Would be so cool to see what the swan's plans are for different events on the night.

 

[The Gong]

I almost want Campbell to bid before our pick, I think it would be super interesting to see what we do.

I imagine we would trade up to grab a few of Essedons or GWS picks, then maybe try to trade back down with some future picks.

Would be so cool to see what the swan's plans are for different events on the night.

Based on that Kinnear Beatson interview their focus is getting Campbell and they'll take Gulden if they can but aren't prepared to into deficit for him. That was my take away. It will be interesting.

 

[caesar88]

I almost want Campbell to bid before our pick, I think it would be super interesting to see what we do.

I imagine we would trade up to grab a few of Essedons or GWS picks, then maybe try to trade back down with some future picks.

Would be so cool to see what the swan's plans are for different events on the night.

While I too am intrigued to see what we'd do, it's a scenario I'd rather not have play out. If clubs under-rate Campbell then that's not their loss since they can't have him anyway, but it's definitely our gain.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Based on that Kinnear Beatson interview their focus is getting Campbell and they'll take Gulden if they can but aren't prepared to into deficit for him. That was my take away. It will be interesting.

Correct strategy in my view. We shouldn't go into massive deficit for Gulden.

 

[TheMase]

Correct strategy in my view. We shouldn't go into massive deficit for Gulden.

I don’t think we will need to.

I think we have every intention on taking Gulden almost anywhere (within reason) and I think Beatsons comments are to ward off clubs thinking they can bid him at 12 and we will significantly overpay.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I don’t think we will need to.

I think we have every intention on taking Gulden almost anywhere (within reason) and I think Beatsons comments are to ward off clubs thinking they can bid him at 12 and we will significantly overpay.

Anywhere from 25 onwards is about his right range though. If someone wants him at 16, go for it.

 

[RUNVS]

I almost want Campbell to bid before our pick, I think it would be super interesting to see what we do.

I imagine we would trade up to grab a few of Essedons or GWS picks, then maybe try to trade back down with some future picks.

Would be so cool to see what the swan's plans are for different events on the night.

I think we would trade away pick 3 for a 2021 first rounder.

 

[replicant]

Road to the Draft podcast on the AFL site had us pick up:
Hollands at 4.
Match bid on Campbell at 9.
Match bid on Gulden at 19.

According to my (possibly wrong) calculations, we can afford that, and end up with 137 points after paying for Gulden.

That means picks 34,37,43,48, 60 get used along the way. They all move as bids come in, so it gets complicated. Our original pick 60 is now pick 56 by the time we use it on Gulden.

But after paying for it all, we end up with a leftover 4th pick at around 60 if we want to draft another kid.

 

[TheMase]

Road to the Draft podcast on the AFL site had us pick up:
Hollands at 4.
Match bid on Campbell at 9.
Match bid on Gulden at 19.

According to my (possibly wrong) calculations, we can afford that, and end up with 137 points after paying for Gulden.

That means picks 34,37,43,48, 60 get used along the way. They all move as bids come in, so it gets complicated. Our original pick 60 is now pick 56 by the time we use it on Gulden.

But after paying for it all, we end up with a leftover 4th pick at around 60 if we want to draft another kid.

It’ll end up being better than that with other academy bids as well as our own in Campbell will improve the value of our later picks.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Road to the Draft podcast on the AFL site had us pick up:
Hollands at 4.
Match bid on Campbell at 9.
Match bid on Gulden at 19.

According to my (possibly wrong) calculations, we can afford that, and end up with 137 points after paying for Gulden.

That means picks 34,37,43,48, 60 get used along the way. They all move as bids come in, so it gets complicated. Our original pick 60 is now pick 56 by the time we use it on Gulden.

But after paying for it all, we end up with a leftover 4th pick at around 60 if we want to draft another kid.

I'd be happy with this! Hollands will suit