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List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

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Lot of rose coloured glasses being worn in here, we have some really glaring deficiencies that could be even further exposed if these kids we’ve got don’t come on.
We’ve got some good role players by the looks, doesn’t look like many stars which we need as we are really lacking in that area.
The club for whatever reason hasn’t recruited anyone of value since 2013 and I’m afraid we could end up being a pretty mediocre middle of the road club for a long time if we don’t get some half decent players in via trade.
 
ashep said:
Playing the long game means resigning ourself to wasting the end of Buddy and JPK's careers, and the end of the prime of players like Parker, Rampe, and Lloyd for the promise of the next crop.

Sure, Heeney, Mills, Rowbottom et al might turn into a premiership core, but we've still got some pretty bloody good players on our list who now may not play another meaningful game in Swans colours.

At the same time, we've let best 22 players like Jones, Rohan, Hanners and Nankervis leave the club only to watch them play September footy whilst bringing in depth players like Taylor and Thurlow.

Sure, playing the long game is a sound strategy, but your gambling of a bunch of promising unknowns reaching the level of senior players on the list right now.
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I dunno where to start with this.

Buddy has been injured for 2 years. Propping up the list with senior players from other teams to capatilise on the end of his career would have been an unmitigated disaster.

Parker, Rampe, and Lloyd are still all young enough that they can be good players for at least the next 2-4 years and in our next top 4 team.

Jones was uncontracted and wanted to go back to Melbourne.

Go and ask Geelong fans if they are happy with Rohan.

Hannebery had looked cooked since the 2016 grand final and was on a huge contract. He hasn't done anything meaningful at all at St Kilda. Getting off his contract was a win.

Nankervis wasn't getting a game behind Tippett and then Naismith and asked to be traded. That is 4 years ago, obviously if we had our time over we would have given him more games and tried to keep him happy.

Signing high-priced senior players when you have no chance of winning the flag is a road to nowhere. Go ask Hawthorn, Essendon, or North.

Aggressively targeting the draft over a sustained period and then, once those players you draft hit the 80-120 game mark, going for senior players is 100% the right strategy.
 
McRobie said:
Lot of rose coloured glasses being worn in here, we have some really glaring deficiencies that could be even further exposed if these kids we’ve got don’t come on.
We’ve got some good role players by the looks, doesn’t look like many stars which we need as we are really lacking in that area.
The club for whatever reason hasn’t recruited anyone of value since 2013 and I’m afraid we could end up being a pretty mediocre middle of the road club for a long time if we don’t get some half decent players in via trade.
Click to expand...
No need to hit the panic button yet.
 

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I'm finding it odd on here. There definitely two camps, those that think we are going well and those that think we've gone, or are going badly.

I think it's pretty obvious what side I'm on, but I don't really care, we're just discussing how we FEEL about the team. In the end we could only know what the right decision is 5 years from now, and we will all have different opinions during that time as well. I don't mind that, don't even mind disagreeing with people on here.

What pisses me off though is when people attack the other camp because of the different opinions, McRobie is in my line of sight since he's the most recent, but both sides have done and it's annoying.

No one here is being disloyal to the club, the same that no one is putting rose-coloured glasses on. No one is ignoring the facts, we are each taking the facts that we like best.

Perfect example is list management. If you look at it from the point of trading its being very very bad, I 100% agree with that. But some of us prefer to look at the drafting and the maintaining of talent. That, imo, has been really encouraging to see. Does that mean either opinions are wrong?

No. They are simply 2 different ways of looking at the same situation.
Insulting people, or demeaning their intelligence because they choose to be positive, or questioning loyalty/intent when a person critics are both as bad as each other.

I'm sick of it.
 
Superstar swan said:
If they’re going long haul, you wanna make sure the kids we have are certain stars or capable of becoming a great team. Otherwise it’s a massive gamble that can set you back a decade
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Did anyone think Richmond would go on to win 3 out of 4 grand finals after we beat them by 100+points in 2016?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
RUNVS said:
McCartin is good enough to be a key forward, and Blakey will be in a year or two.
Click to expand...

I feel like Blakey's ceiling as a player is still really high as a midfielder. He is the one player on our list who I think has the potential to develop into a Fyfe/Bont quality of player. All I worry about his body shape, especially when you look at his old man.

I think McCartin can develop into an All-Australian level CHB if we leave him there. Really athletic, fast closing speed, strong and disciplined. I dont think his future is in the forward line.
 
Bloods86 said:
With the dispute on when our 'rebuild' started, I guess it depends on whether you think we need to finish outside of the 8 to officially be on a list rebuild. I tend to think along the lines of when we were / are bringing in players that we can see as part of our next flag push (and we're only going to know the outcome of that in hindsight). But, even forgetting that while we were still making finals, we were up there in putting the most debutants on the field (pretty sure we even led Brisbane for a while)...and ignoring that Heeney, Papley, Mills, Dawson, Melican, others came slightly earlier...

2016 - Florent (11), Hayward (21) - I give these two some slack. Florent might have had a more difficult year than most not being able to see family in Vic. Hayward coming off horrible injuries last year and being thrown around the ground. Even Fox from this year looks like he might be a dependable defender around in time for our next push.
2017 - Ling (14), McCartin (33). Whether Ling comes good is uncertain, but the potential and high-ish pick was there. The club were ecstatic when McCartin got through to our 2nd pick.
2018 - Blakey (10), Rowbottom (25), McInerney (44)
2019 - Stephens (5), Gould (26), Warner (39). It was pretty clear we rated Warner highly so I'm willing to wait before judgement. Gould similar, since he was highly rated and playing senior footy, probably slid a bit in the draft tbh.

Obviously it's not complete - for me, we need at least 1 more key forward or defender (with McCartin to play the opposite end), a serviceable ruck that can play the whole year and another inside mid (unless the club are supremely confident on Warner). We'll be able to satisfy at least 1 of those with pick 3, which we should definitely keep.
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I understand where you're coming from in highlighting our draft picks since 2016. Whether or not selecting these players was part of a rebuild is very questionable imo as every club is required to draft a minimum of 3 players every year. You could look at Richmond over the past few years and the new players they have brought in via the draft but they are certainly not "rebuilding".
 

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The spectre of Mason Wood still looms large ....
 
tombomb said:
Signing high-priced senior players when you have no chance of winning the flag is a road to nowhere. Go ask Hawthorn, Essendon, or North.

Aggressively targeting the draft over a sustained period and then, once those players you draft hit the 80-120 game mark, going for senior players is 100% the right strategy.
Click to expand...
I could always ask Geelong how continually topping up their list with quality senior players helped them just play a GF.

Or I could asked Brisbane how bringing Hodgey, Lachie Neale and Charlie Cameron into a bottom 4 team has worked out for them.

What about Richmond? Finished 13th and got flogged by 100 in the last round of 2016 then went out and recruited Toby, Prestia and Caddy who each just won their 3rd flag.

Heeney
Mills
Lloyd
Parker
Rampe
Buddy
JPK

All genuine A-graders either in their prime, or on the other side but still good enough to be part of a premiership team.

We should be trying to compete now.
 
Kapers said:
I'm finding it odd on here. There definitely two camps, those that think we are going well and those that think we've gone, or are going badly.

I think it's pretty obvious what side I'm on, but I don't really care, we're just discussing how we FEEL about the team. In the end we could only know what the right decision is 5 years from now, and we will all have different opinions during that time as well. I don't mind that, don't even mind disagreeing with people on here.

What pisses me off though is when people attack the other camp because of the different opinions, McRobie is in my line of sight since he's the most recent, but both sides have done and it's annoying.

No one here is being disloyal to the club, the same that no one is putting rose-coloured glasses on. No one is ignoring the facts, we are each taking the facts that we like best.

Perfect example is list management. If you look at it from the point of trading its being very very bad, I 100% agree with that. But some of us prefer to look at the drafting and the maintaining of talent. That, imo, has been really encouraging to see. Does that mean either opinions are wrong?

No. They are simply 2 different ways of looking at the same situation.
Insulting people, or demeaning their intelligence because they choose to be positive, or questioning loyalty/intent when a person critics are both as bad as each other.

I'm sick of it.
Click to expand...
It’s called an opinion, that’s what forums are for. People are allowed difference of opinion. I said “people are wearing rose coloured glasses” If can’t handle that get a grip mate that’s pathetic. If you’re sick of robust discussion as you say you are then piss off and don’t tag me.
 
Last edited:
More on Hogan:
@Richmond_FC were in the mix up until early last week.
SydneySwans too - Swans players spoke with Hogan about what it’s like playing in NSW - under the radar lifestyle.
@GWSGIANTS emerged late, were the most aggressive in pursuit and fit appealed most to Jesse.
 

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Tom hickey can’t be the main target.
more talented targets not reported on yet have to be on the cards to avoid a losing culture among the young group being created IMO. We have a bottom four list no matter how u spin it at present
 
ashep said:
I could always ask Geelong how continually topping up their list with quality senior players helped them just play a GF.

Or I could asked Brisbane how bringing Hodgey, Lachie Neale and Charlie Cameron into a bottom 4 team has worked out for them.

What about Richmond? Finished 13th and got flogged by 100 in the last round of 2016 then went out and recruited Toby, Prestia and Caddy who each just won their 3rd flag.

Heeney
Mills
Lloyd
Parker
Rampe
Buddy
JPK

All genuine A-graders either in their prime, or on the other side but still good enough to be part of a premiership team.

We should be trying to compete now.
Click to expand...

I could go through this post like the last one, but I can't be bothered.

Perfectly aware that there are other teams in the league performing better than us at the moment, it doesn't mean our strategy is wrong.
 
Brisbane and Richmond are excellent examples of improvement within a list. To say they were turned around by a few players is a stretch. Brisbane had an up and coming list already (that's what happens when you get good draft picks and fix player retention issues). Richmond went away after 2016 and changed the coaching and club culture - most of the playing pieces were already there.

As has been said, if we took a punt on Buddy and JPK playing significant roles in our next flag (and stock up on older players and risky trades), it's almost certainly going to fail and then we become the North Melbourne and Hawthorn of the current AFL world, where they tried to stay in the window too long, and now face longer rebuilds than we should have to.

We've also never been a side that constantly brings in established big name players. Yes, we brought in Hall, then Buddy and Tippett in quick succession (while I think Buddy has been successful, they didn't get us a flag). Of the 05 and 12 flag sides, how many big names (at the time of trade) had we brought in that made all the difference? Williams, (a homesick) Davis, maybe Ball were established and good gets. Shaw and Mumford the closest thing to stars for 2012, and that's a stretch. The rest of our trade ins were undervalued, couldn't get game time or had significant question marks.

I think I posted last week, I fail to see how we've consistently missed out on big names that were willing to come to NSW. Cameron and to a far lesser extent Preuss this year. We have to accept right now they're going to two clubs that the wider AFL community think are closer to a flag. If people are considering the likes of Daniher or Hogan as big losses, then you have to wonder what game they've been watching over the last few years.

ashep said:
I could always ask Geelong how continually topping up their list with quality senior players helped them just play a GF.

Or I could asked Brisbane how bringing Hodgey, Lachie Neale and Charlie Cameron into a bottom 4 team has worked out for them.

What about Richmond? Finished 13th and got flogged by 100 in the last round of 2016 then went out and recruited Toby, Prestia and Caddy who each just won their 3rd flag.

Heeney
Mills
Lloyd
Parker
Rampe
Buddy
JPK

All genuine A-graders either in their prime, or on the other side but still good enough to be part of a premiership team.

We should be trying to compete now.
Click to expand...
 
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Teddy chester said:
Tom hickey can’t be the main target.
more talented targets not reported on yet have to be on the cards to avoid a losing culture among the young group being created IMO. We have a bottom four list no matter how u spin it at present
Click to expand...

Who?

Which ruckman is available that would want to be traded, and wouldnt cost a lot to get?
 
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