List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[ashep]

I could go through this post like the last one, but I can't be bothered.

Perfectly aware that there are other teams in the league performing better than us at the moment, it doesn't mean our strategy is wrong.

Great, the point is that those teams are performing better than us whilst pursuing the strategy that the "long game" supporters are dismissing.

So sure, it doesn't mean our current strategy is necessarily wrong, but it proves that the "win now" strategy some of us are advocating for can definitely be right.

 

[Kiama Chris]

Mccartin better back.
Blakey better on a wing.

McCartin's success at CHB a pleasant surprise. Not a mug at CHF.
Blakey was ALWAYS going to be a winger or HHF. His stint forward was allowing him to grow and develop. The surprise is that he did OK inside as well.
Both these guys will be part of our team for many years.
We'll make it work - have faith!

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Brisbane and Richmond are excellent examples of improvement within a list. To say they were turned around by a few players is a stretch. Brisbane had an up and coming list already (that's what happens when you get good draft picks and fix player retention issues). Richmond went away after 2016 and changed the coaching and club culture - most of the playing pieces were already there.

As has been said, if we took a punt on Buddy and JPK playing significant roles in our next flag (and stock up on older players and risky trades), it's almost certainly going to fail and then we become the North Melbourne and Hawthorn of the current AFL world, where they tried to stay in the window too long, and now face longer rebuilds than we should have to.

We've also never been a side that constantly brings in established big name players. Yes, we brought in Hall, then Buddy and Tippett in quick succession (while I think Buddy has been successful, they didn't get us a flag). Of the 05 and 12 flag sides, how many big names (at the time of trade) had we brought in that made all the difference? Williams, Davis, maybe Ball were established and good gets. Shaw and Mumford the closest thing to stars for 2012, and that's a stretch. The rest of our trade ins were undervalued, couldn't get game time or had significant question marks.

I think I posted last week, I fail to see how we've consistently missed out on big names that were willing to come to NSW. Cameron and to a far lesser extent Preuss this year. We have to accept right now they're going to two clubs that the wider AFL community think are closer to a flag. If people are considering the likes of Daniher or Hogan as big losses, then you have to wonder what game they've been watching over the last few years.

Brisbane and Richmond are also perfect examples of bringing in FA/Trades to improve the surrounding list.

Brisbane= Lyons, Neale, McCarthy
Richmond= Lynch, Prestia, Caddy, Nanka

 

[Superstar swan]

Our club must have some sort of stench on it , no one wants a bar of us

 

[Wolfgang West]

Brisbane and Richmond are also perfect examples of bringing in FA/Trades to improve the surrounding list.

Brisbane= Lyons, Neale, McCarthy
Richmond= Lynch, Prestia, Caddy, Nanka

We don't deal in fact around here.

 

[RobbieK]

Our club must have some sort of stench on it , no one wants a bar of us

And yet while basically all other teams are continually losing desired players, particularly non-Victorian clubs, all of our young group have committed to the club and stayed...

We have as good a level of player retention that exists in the league. Sure, that will then limit our ability to make big plays for players at other clubs, but would you rather be in the position of GWS and having to replace multiple best 22 players every single season?

 

[BloodySwan]

It’s very concerning we have done nothing at the trade table or free agency for 7 years. Meanwhile clubs who are winning flags or competing are very busy.

I'd be more concerned if we were aggressive but no better off. Check out Hawthorn & Carlton. Super active for years but not that much higher in the ladder than us

 

[Punts]

Preuss and hogan help gws no doubt

 

[Corpuscles]

It’s very concerning we have done nothing at the trade table or free agency for 7 years. Meanwhile clubs who are winning flags or competing are very busy.

Dunno whether you were just new to footy in 2014?

But Swans did the biggest riskiest deal in history in 2013 (7 yrs ago)
AFL got the shits took away COLA which was part of Swans reasoning AND imposed a trade ban for 2 yrs
There goes 2 years
Then with reduced money had to suffer cap restrictions managing back ended other deals . (Lose Cola about $1mill per year)
Continued to be finalists and GF up to 2016 and finalists till 2018 . NO LOW DRAFT PICKS

The ones " who are winning flags or competing" spent years at the bottom accumulating top draft picks/players to trade !
Except Geelong and a bloke can live in peace with sparce neighbors a seaside palace ocean views with acreage at Moggs Creek Surf coast and be closer to training in drive time than if he was in an outer suburb of Melb . Also much lower cost of living.

WHO was Swans going to trade THEN OR NOW?
Should they have given up McCartin and Heeney and pick 5 last year for the strained remnants of Daniher just to make you happy that they are splashing cash and getting someone new ? He wouldn't have played more than 4 games this yr anyway

 

[Chaisa]

And yet while basically all other teams are continually losing desired players, particularly non-Victorian clubs, all of our young group have committed to the club and stayed...

We have as good a level of player retention that exists in the league. Sure, that will then limit our ability to make big plays for players at other clubs, but would you rather be in the position of GWS and having to replace multiple best 22 players every single season?

Yeah it would be a serious problem if lots of players wanted out and no-one wanted in, something that would basically require a potential Gold Coast-esque package medium-term. Here it's a case of everyone seems happy to stay at Sydney but our list isn't really optimised to make big plays for guns. Which isn't really a bad thing, though I think we'd want a decent 2021 given that year will have 1. a lot of gun FA's and 2. more cap space.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Tell you what tho its a very tough position to be a bottom 4 club right now.

 

[BloodySwan]

More on Hogan:
@Richmond_FC were in the mix up until early last week.
SydneySwans too - Swans players spoke with Hogan about what it’s like playing in NSW - under the radar lifestyle.
@GWSGIANTS emerged late, were the most aggressive in pursuit and fit appealed most to Jesse.

So we're just the Giants fluffer

 

[Bloods86]

Brisbane and Richmond are also perfect examples of bringing in FA/Trades to improve the surrounding list.

Brisbane= Lyons, Neale, McCarthy
Richmond= Lynch, Prestia, Caddy, Nanka

That's essentially what I was responding to (and I still stand by my view that the bigger improvement was the existing players and coaching). Bringing in players can help, which if we get the opportunity to bring in good, fit players that are willing to come to us, sure let's do it. There's no need to throw good draft picks or big $$ at most of the players people seem to think we've missed out on. As others have said, we can bring in players when we think we're about to be or are in the flag window (e.g. Lynch at Richmond).

I was also responding to the bringing in players 'of note' or at least established senior players we're apparently missing out on. McCarthy and Nankervis don't fit that bill - in fact I'm fairly sure many would have been bewildered if we'd brought in McCarthy. Lyons was just a massive stroke of luck and I doubt we'll ever get a chance to rip off another club like that.

 

[Corpuscles]

Great, the point is that those teams are performing better than us whilst pursuing the strategy that the "long game" supporters are dismissing.

So sure, it doesn't mean our current strategy is necessarily wrong, but it proves that the "win now" strategy some of us are advocating for can definitely be right.

Not right, rather it is just ignorant.

How does Swans "win now"?
Get Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

, Dustin Martin, Jezza Cameron, and Adz Treloar? (or like)

Who are you going to trade out for them. WHAT just pick 3 and 22?
Where does the 3.5 million cap come from?

How much cap have Swans got left ?
Who wants to come to Sydney?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

So we're just the Giants fluffer

Came over the top.

 

[Wolfgang West]

This is just Groundhog day when it comes to trade period for us. Don't know why people get so upset when the inevitable is once again the result. Myself included. We are paddling. So be it.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Not right, rather it is just ignorant.

How does Swans win now?
Get Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

, Dustin Martin, Jezza Cameron, and Adz Treloar? (or like)

Who are you going to trade out for them. WHAT just pick 3 and 22?
Where does the 3.5 million cap come from?

How much cap have Swans got left ?
Who wants to come to Sydney?

Its unfortunate the club is to quiet when it comes to trade/draft week would be really interesting to know their thoughts.

Preuss/Hogan wanted to come to Sydney they just chose GWS instead/ Cap should of been no issue fitting those 2 in.

 

[Chaisa]

GWS's short-term hopes look a lot better than ours though. Easy to see why they can go aggressively for players easier than us.

Other factor is that our picks situation this year is unideal (I would not advocate getting rid of #3 and we need the other picks for Academy players)

 

[ashep]

Not right, rather it is just ignorant.

How does Swans "win now"?
Get Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

, Dustin Martin, Jezza Cameron, and Adz Treloar? (or like)

Who are you going to trade out for them. WHAT just pick 3 and 22?
Where does the 3.5 million cap come from?

How much cap have Swans got left ?
Who wants to come to Sydney?

Oh sorry mate, I thought that trade capital and salary cap management were all part of a "list management strategy" discussion.

Silly, ignorant me.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

This is just Groundhog day when it comes to trade period for us. Don't know why people get so upset when the inevitable is once again the result. Myself included. We are paddling. So be it.

Its tough for as long as we are below GWS any players looking to move back to NSW will consider them a better suitor.

If they crash and burn in 2021 however and we show improvement things may change.

 

[FreeAgent1]

What on earth is going on with the Pies??

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

GWS's short-term hopes look a lot better than ours though. Easy to see why they can go aggressively for players easier than us.

Other factor is that our picks situation this year is unideal (I would not advocate getting rid of #3 and we need the other picks for Academy players)

In both instances it says GWS were more aggressive in their pursuit of Preuss and Hogan sounds like they wanted them more.

 

[tombomb]

Great, the point is that those teams are performing better than us whilst pursuing the strategy that the "long game" supporters are dismissing.

So sure, it doesn't mean our current strategy is necessarily wrong, but it proves that the "win now" strategy some of us are advocating for can definitely be right.

If our strategy 2017-2020 was to trade like we were a chance to win the flag, moving out picks for senior players, we would be in the exact same position as North, Essendon, and Hawthorn are now.

It's frustrating to have to wait, but it is the right strategy to patient.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

What on earth is going on with the Pies??

Mismanagement of the cap.

 

[Chaisa]

I think what might be a bigger concern is that we've seemingly lost the ability to find diamonds in the rough. Most of our signings between Hall and Tippett were far from big names but we either turned them into big names or at least really solid contributors. I am not seeing Ryan Clarke

4

Ryan Clarke

Age

28

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.8

5star

K

9.1

4star

HB

9.7

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.2

2star

D

18.5

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

19.6

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

12.6

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

or Lewis Taylor

28

Lewis Taylor

Age

30

Ht

174cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.6

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.1

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.9

3star

D

9.6

2star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

3star

CL

0.2

2star

D

12.6

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

CL

1.2

4star

become the next Kennedy, Mumford, Richards or even Shaw.